Bar Box Rating System

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I know there are many on here that play on bar boxes most of the time. Most league players mostly play on bar boxes. I have e-mailed and sent PM’s to many of the instructors, writers of pool books, pro’s and video and dvd makers asking for a rating system for bar boxes. I would think it could be done in the same format as the 9 & 10-ball for 9’ tables is done. The same format as Joe Tucker’s 10-ball ratings, Dr. Dave’s 9-ball rating system, and many other rating systems. I thought maybe some bar box players on AZ could make our own.

I will try and come up with one and you all can tweak away at it. Maybe between us all we can come up with something that most can agree on. Even though the 9’ rating systems doesn't state brand of table or pocket size let us use a 7’ Diamond, or 7’ bar boxes like the Valley, Global, and the like with 4 ½” pockets or smaller.

RATINGS FOR BAR BOXES
Based on ten racks of the ghost

9-ball
*****
40-50= D+
51-60= C+
61-70= B+
71-76= A
77-85= SS
86-91= Pro
92-100= Top Pro look up DR Dave's 9-ball ratings to see how you can score 100 in 10 racks.

10-ball
******
30-41= D+
42-51= C+
52-60= B+
61-70= A
71-80= SS
81-90= Pro
91-100= Top Pro
 
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There are other game ratings too. 8-ball, Fargo, Equel offense, 6-pocket, and I'm sure others. Johnnyt
 
Duh!!

There are no dumb questions. Only dumb people who ask them.

Be that as it may be, I will jump right in. What do the numbers to the left of the letter grade represent?
 
12310bch said:
There are no dumb questions. Only dumb people who ask them.

Be that as it may be, I will jump right in. What do the numbers to the left of the letter grade represent?
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Sorry. I should have put that in for players that never used or saw the ghost rating systems. 10 racks of 9 or 10-ball. 1 point for each ball pocketed. Look up 9-ball and ten ball ghost rules. Thank you. Johnnyt
 
No need for separate rating systems

This is more than redundant. An A player is going to be an A player on a 9' table or a bar box.

The only difference your bar box rating system would show is that people may increase in rating faster because your playing rotation games.

Fact is, 9 or 10 ball, makes no difference, the less balls there are on the table the easier it is to clean them off.

Try thinking outside the box (no pun intended) There are other games out there than 9 or 10 ball and your rating system ignores the fact that the majority of games played on the small table are actually 8 ball not 9 or 10 ball and would therefore be unreliable.
 
supergreenman said:
This is more than redundant. An A player is going to be an A player on a 9' table or a bar box.

The only difference your bar box rating system would show is that people may increase in rating faster because your playing rotation games.

Fact is, 9 or 10 ball, makes no difference, the less balls there are on the table the easier it is to clean them off.

Try thinking outside the box (no pun intended) There are other games out there than 9 or 10 ball and your rating system ignores the fact that the majority of games played on the small table are actually 8 ball not 9 or 10 ball and would therefore be unreliable.
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If you read my 2nd post you would see I mentioned 8-ball. I didn't do a rating system for all games that can be played on the box. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
If you read my 2nd post you would see I mentioned 8-ball. I didn't do a rating system for all games that can be played on the box. Johnnyt
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Ok, I guess my main point is, a rating system for Bar Boxes not needed. The top players on one size table will be the top players on another size table.

Sure there are the people that specialize in bar boxes, Kirkwood for instance, but the fact is if you put them on a big table it's not going to make them any less of a threat. Same goes for the reverse.

As for the rating system itself, I have my doubts if playing rotation games against the ghost is going to accurately peg someones skill at all games.
 
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supergreenman said:
Ok, I guess my main point is, a rating system for Bar Boxes not needed. The top players on one size table will be the top players on another size table.

Sure there are the people that specialize in bar boxes, Kirkwood for instance, but the fact is if you put them on a big table it's not going to make them any less of a threat. Same goes for the reverse.

As for the rating system itself, I have my doubts if playing rotation games against the ghost is going to accurately peg someones skill at all games.
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Of course you are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that there are more people playing on bar boxes than 9’ tables in the US and more 7‘ table go in every day compared to 9‘ tables, so I thought maybe the BB players would like to know how their game rates on that table. My opinion also is that an “A” on a BB doesn’t mean an “A” on a 9’ table. They are “A” players that I could hold my own with or beat on a BB that I don’t have a chance with on a 9’ table. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
My opinion also is that an “A” on a BB doesn’t mean an “A” on a 9’ table. Johnnyt
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I agree completly with this. I may be right or wrong but there are a few guys I gamble with who are great BB players and struggle on the big table. There are even times that instead of adjusting a spot we will move to a larger or smaller table to even things out. Just my opinion.
 
Jallan said:
I agree completly with this. I may be right or wrong but there are a few guys I gamble with who are great BB players and struggle on the big table. There are even times that instead of adjusting a spot we will move to a larger or smaller table to even things out. Just my opinion.
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Sorry, I don't agree, if you can't cut the mustard on one table you can't be rated a top player on a different sized table.

It's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned.
 
supergreenman said:
Ok, I guess my main point is, a rating system for Bar Boxes not needed. The top players on one size table will be the top players on another size table.

Sure there are the people that specialize in bar boxes, Kirkwood for instance, but the fact is if you put them on a big table it's not going to make them any less of a threat. Same goes for the reverse.

As for the rating system itself, I have my doubts if playing rotation games against the ghost is going to accurately peg someones skill at all games.
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i disagree, their are many players i could give the 7ball to on a big table that play good enough to hang all day on a bar table. For instance i played a guy about a year ago we played 10 ahead on a bar table he wins in 8 hours, then we play 10 ahead on big table i win in 1 hr 45 mins
 
supergreenman said:
Sorry, I don't agree, if you can't cut the mustard on one table you can't be rated a top player on a different sized table.

It's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned.
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Who the hell is talking about TOP players? I'm talking about ALL ranks of players. Why don't you move on and crap on another thread. Johnnyt
 
supergreenman said:
The top players on one size table will be the top players on another size table.

the fact is if you put them on a big table it's not going to make them any less of a threat. Same goes for the reverse.
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I disagree. Players who play mostly on 9 footers tend to overemphasize their shot making skills, and get a little careless with position when playing on boxes, because they feel like they can make any shot on the "toy table".

Conversely, box players tend to be a little too precise with their position when it isn't necessary on the 9 footer. Also, they're probably a little nervous when a loooong shot comes up, because long shots don't exist on the boxes.

Playing on both is necessary to be a complete, well rounded player, imo....And playing well on one table doesn't mean you can play well on the other.

-Michael <<<Former 9 footer snob, current box aficionado :wink:
 
Johnnyt said:
Who the hell is talking about TOP players? I'm talking about ALL ranks of players. Why don't you move on and crap on another thread. Johnnyt
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Relax, I'm not personally attacking you or crapping on your thread, I'm giving my opinion.

If you're going to create any ranking system it has to start at the top, thus you have to take top players into consideration.
 
supergreenman said:
Sorry, I don't agree, if you can't cut the mustard on one table you can't be rated a top player on a different sized table.

It's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned.
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I think there are players who play the big table well and the small table well. That is not the issue. That said there are big table players who drop to a box and feel the need to play 2 and 3 rail shape when it is completly unnessasary. They play tough shape to end up 18 inches closer to the OB and for no reason other than thats how the shot is played on a 9 foot. The flip is true as well. BB players go to the big table and don't play the long shape routes when they should and end up taking lower percentage shots.

I don't feel JohnnyT was worried about the world beaters of the game. He was asking about average players and where they would stack up.
 
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