Bar League, What would you do?

Sure shake his hand... shake it tight and hard and painful. Pull him close and whisper "you'll be putting the lotion in the basket if you pull that crap again". Or if you're not the Buffalo Bill type, just shake his hand :p

In all seriousness, people like that need to be reported to the league officials. Otherwise they keep on being themselves, which isn't compatible with a "fun" league. Shake his hand and write him up on the back of the scoresheet, or however you're supposed to report people like that.
 
I have captained a womens 8-ball league for years. Here's a few things that stand out in my mind...

Most leagues have rules against this type of behavior. In the league I play in good sportsmanship is to be displayed at all times. If it is not, be sure that a grievance will be filed, and points penalties will be assessed.

If one of my players had a similar issue (I would normally be aware of it immediately) I would be approaching the opposing team's captain, pointing out the indiscretion....warning #1. Should the behavior continue, from the same OR any other player on the opposing team...then at the end of the match, instead of signing the score sheet, I would write 'under protest' on the signature line, and then a brief note about 'poor sportsmanship' in the Notes section, and then write a letter of grievance. We just do not tolerate poor sportsmanship...period!

As a side note...our league also holds the sponsoring tavern accountable for certain things as well. One is they must maintain their equipment. Another is they must provide a 'player friendly' environment during the course of the match. This means keeping the drunks away from tables with 'live' games in process, making sure the music from the jukebox isn't too loud, making sure non-league patrons do not harass league players...etc.

As a team captain, I am a bit of a 'pit bull' when it comes to my team. I can remember one evening we had a match at home...against one of our tougher opponents (running rivalry). Right next to the tables is a large group of men who are already obviously drunk. Now they begin the harass not only my girls, but the opposing team as well...even getting up and talking to the player at the table, in stroke. Now, I say something to the tavern owner...who is my sponsor. He does basically nothing. It begins to get worse yet...so I mention something to the tavern owner again....still, nothin'. When one of the drunk guys gets up from his table, walks over, and grabs the butt of the cue while the opposing team's player was in stroke....I had had it....and said something to the table of drunks. The guy starts screaming at me, and then they decide, thankfully, to leave. Next thing I know, I got the tavern owner in my face, screaming at me that I just cost him like 300.00 more he could have made off the guys drinking. I explain to him the impact it was having on the match, and that it could cost us the whole thing in grievance.....and he doesn't really care...all he keeps going on about is this money I might have cost him.

Well, that was it for me!! I pulled out my copy of the 'Sponsors Rights and Responsibilities' and tell him HE IS RESPONSIBLE for providing a reasonable player's environment, and he did not do that, after repeated requests. I also go on to explain to him that between the two teams, a total of 12 women, he'll make more than 300.00 in drink and food alone. He still has attitude, and is now threatening to 86 me from my own sponsored tavern......to which I replied....'you have been obviously over-serving these men for quite sometime now, as they are having some balance issues, and you have at least 12 witnesses to this fact....you want to 86 me for expecting you to enforce an agreement to which you willingly signed to...then be my guest.'

Let's just say....I got his attention.

I hear of this type of sportsmanship issues a lot here in regards to league play. I do not understand why the captains of these teams are not more proactive...that is part of the captain's job. This type of behavior should not be happening or tolerated during league play!
 
Most folks in bar leagues aren't "serious" players, who would recognize good tactical moves on a table. So you kinda have to expect that when playing in a bar league.

I consider myself fortunate that the bar leagues I play in (APA and VNEA), I've had good experiences in. The crowd in my APA league is generally very well behaved and sportsmanlike - it's really a rarity that there's an "incident" of any sort like Sixpack dealt with. And my Valley league, most are friendly folks, and generally more serious players than the APA side, so everyone appreciates tactics that a lower-rent bar banger would consider "chicken fecal matter". :P

I suppose, one has to take into consideration the people in a given bar league - their personalities, their playing styles, etc. and expect certain types of behavior out of them. There's a wide range of personality across the bar-banger spectrum. Sounds like Sixpack found a crappy group of'em. :(
 
sixpack said:
I've started playing in an 8-ball bar table league in our area, it's SORT OF BCA rules, but not really and not affiliated with BCA.
[...]
This post is starting to sound more like therapy than a question, but what would you have done? Would you have pretended not to hear? Shaken his hand? Challenged him loudly about it in front of everybody? Joked about it? Called him a cheater?
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Quit playing in bar leagues and go to a pool hall. That's what I would do.
 
I will 2nd that

seymore15074 said:
Quit playing in bar leagues and go to a pool hall. That's what I would do.
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get out of the bars, at least in Pool rooms, people know what goes on there.

He was nicer than I would have been.
 
seymore15074 said:
Quit playing in bar leagues and go to a pool hall. That's what I would do.
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Sometimes that is easier said than done. Not everyone lives in heavily populated areas. Heck, we didn't even get a pool hall locally here until a few years ago!

Sometimes all some of us have available to us are bar/tavern leagues. I know that in my area, most of the tavern league players are pretty serious about their pool...and pretty savvy too. That's not to say we do not have fun...far from it. But once we are at the table, in stance, and in stroke...it's all business.

Lisa
 
Well when it comes to sportsman like conduct.... that's what it is. Don't confuse the two.
Some are great players, with bad sportsmanlike conduct.
I don't really particularly care much for unsporstmanlike conduct. But I do acknowledge it, only if it benefits them.
When it comes to the match, I always shake hands with the other opponent. Regardless of their sportsmanship.
However, if the person has knowingly cheated in the game, or if you feel that they cheated, then I would have to agree with you.
 
Assuming it's a BIH league, and not an "honest effort" league, I would have been very tempted to start playing a few extra lock-up safeties just to make a point.

Cory
 
acedotcom said:
I've got a lot of experience with our local bar leagues and bar tournaments. Down here they do not play ball-in-hand rules for cue ball fouls. They extoll a policy called "honest effort" where no safes are allowed and players are expected to make an attempt at pocketing a ball regardless of the lay of the balls. Insane! Of course, some players play disguised safes, others don't bother disguising them, and if you miss and don't leave them a cherry they accuse you of playing safe. According to the rules, playing safe is cheating but no one ever makes the call. Whenever any of us suggest a rule change to one foul ball-in-hand, the masses make a big squawk, even those who regularly play safe.

Bar players here don't care much for players who usually play in poolrooms on "big" tables, or the rules they play by. They have the same negative reaction players had to your move as they do to jump and masse shots.

You just have to remember, you're in a different kind of environment playing with people who have no idea what pool really is. I usually focus on just two things:
1. Never accidentally pocket the 8.
2. Never scratch on the 8.

Playing against these guys, that's usually enough to insure victory.:D
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Very good post! It is best to find out what rules you are playing under... During one bar tournament in South Carolina, I found out as I went, that you could not pocket the 8 off of any other ball, it had to be "clean". I laughed at the guy and said: "Nooooo! You're making these rules up as you go!" and he told me to shut up and that was the rule.

I guess if you have balls sitting in all 6 pockets, your opponent can never pocket the 8.

I have a low tolerance for people who don't know the "correct" rules, but have tried to do my part to educate them, by running tournaments myself and printing (and explaining) the rules.

These problems are just part of "the bonus" of shooting in bars. I personally have come to enjoy the challenge of winning under their rules. Any of this "honest effort" bull-s**t they can save for figure skating, where the competition is judged!
 
These dummys (clueless bar shooters) don't realize that ball-in-hand enforces "honest effort" more than their chickenshit rules. Hahaha!
 
Around here the smaller towns have leagues with players who do not know the rules - using strategy or thinking is considered cheating, etc. But the larger cities have better leagues with players who know rules and use strategy.

Same thing with "anyone can enter" weekly money tournaments. Around here some tournaments are bar rules, no safeties, obvious thinking or strategy is considered cheating. Then there are BCA rules tournaments where the better players go - strategy and thinking are the norm.

I was playing in a BCA 8-ball tournament and my opponent (visiting bar banger type) broke, then ran in all his balls except the 8 and scratched on his last shot. I had ball-in-hand. I had two balls clustered and all my balls on the table scattered around. I called a safety, shot a stop shot at my clustered balls which separated them (moving them to better positions) and at the same time left my opponent with an impossible shot...

My opponent looked at me with a silly look and said "What are you doing?"

I said "I'm trying to win, your shot." (He seemed to think I should have started shooting in all my balls and left the problem balls for last, allowing him a shot on the 8.)

So he attempted to kick at the 8 and missed by a mile, then I got ball-in-hand again and then ran out.

My opponent looked at me like I was some sort of cheater. He never showed up again at the BCA tournament, just went to the bar rules tournaments after that. Fine with me!
 
sixpack said:
LOL - I figured it wouldn't take long for that answer :)

I would, if I could play on bar tables here in a different league. I have been playing big tables in a pool hall league, but wanted to change it up. Probably my last session.

Good, solid, excellent advice by SJM and Luxury. That would have been the diplomatic thing to do. I rarely lose my temper, but I lost it last night and I was seeing red. I was pretty sure that anything I said to him when I went over there was going to end up making me look foolish. I didn't want to let him know he got to me...but I think he figured that out anyway.

Cheers,
RC
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Well if you don't have any choice but to play in bar leagues, then your best bet is just to enjoy kicking the crap out of the ball bangers. It's a good news vs bad news deal. The good news is you can win most of the time against people who aren't very good players. The bad news is some of them will act a little strange. The real reason they are making comments like that toward you is because they recognize that you are a better player and you make them feel inferior.
 
The only time I have never shaken a guys hand before or after we played was at a tourney about a year ago. I used the restroom and was washing my hands when the guy I was going to play walked right out without washing his hands. When our names were called to play each other - he ended up racking and came over to shake my hand and say good luck - I told him good luck but I can't shake his hand. He didn't ask why and didn't seem upset about it. A couple of weeks later I was talking to a guy that knew him and he happened to bring up the fact I didn't shake the guys hand when we played. I didn't tell him why but I did tell him to have him come talk to me if he wants to know. He never came back up to me and I see him quite frequently. It may have been rude but I don't think it is any more rude or disgusting than taking a leak and not washing your hands then trying to touch someone else's hands. EWWWWW! Maybe it is just me.

BVal
 
Jeff said:
The guy was an asshole but they are over the place and especially in bars.

But you made two mistakes in my opinion, first, after the second or third time of him saying that, you should have spoke up and asked him to quite saying it. This would have at least alerted your team to the problem.

Second, shake the guys hand. Just shake the guys hand. That was your chance to be the bigger man......
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This is just what I did under similar circumstaces once. I said loudly for everyone to hear, "What's that? Speak up like you got a pair!" Of course the guy had to explain himself too everyone.

Both teams took it from there. We shook hands after all was said and done with him not liking it but accepting it.
 
BVal said:
The only time I have never shaken a guys hand before or after we played was at a tourney about a year ago. I used the restroom and was washing my hands when the guy I was going to play walked right out without washing his hands. When our names were called to play each other - he ended up racking and came over to shake my hand and say good luck - I told him good luck but I can't shake his hand. He didn't ask why and didn't seem upset about it. A couple of weeks later I was talking to a guy that knew him and he happened to bring up the fact I didn't shake the guys hand when we played. I didn't tell him why but I did tell him to have him come talk to me if he wants to know. He never came back up to me and I see him quite frequently. It may have been rude but I don't think it is any more rude or disgusting than taking a leak and not washing your hands then trying to touch someone else's hands. EWWWWW! Maybe it is just me.

BVal
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Yeah! Always wash your hands after a "ball-in-hand"! Haha! In Puerto Rico, people always shake hands at work and I see a few guys who run out of the potty without washing... Makes me sick!

I am really starting to have a phobia about public restrooms anyway... airports are the nasty of the nasty. Funny the tricks you can learn to keep from touching ANYTHING!
 
BVal said:
The only time I have never shaken a guys hand before or after we played was at a tourney about a year ago. I used the restroom and was washing my hands when the guy I was going to play walked right out without washing his hands. When our names were called to play each other - he ended up racking and came over to shake my hand and say good luck - I told him good luck but I can't shake his hand. He didn't ask why and didn't seem upset about it. A couple of weeks later I was talking to a guy that knew him and he happened to bring up the fact I didn't shake the guys hand when we played. I didn't tell him why but I did tell him to have him come talk to me if he wants to know. He never came back up to me and I see him quite frequently. It may have been rude but I don't think it is any more rude or disgusting than taking a leak and not washing your hands then trying to touch someone else's hands. EWWWWW! Maybe it is just me.

BVal
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I know, it creeps me out too, especially players who come out of the bathroom with blue chalk still embedded in their fingers. It is hard to shake hands with these guys. Most women wash, why can't guys? Is that why we don't play as well? :D

Anyway, back to the topic, most players started in leagues. We all went through the same learning curve. I guess your choices boil down to:

1. Being the nice guy and ignoring it like you did, which leaves bad feelings on your side.

2. Being a nice guy but saying something in an instructional and nice way, a la SJM, and/or get the captains involved.

3. Being a nice guy, but pointing out his lack of knowledge which may embarrass him.

4. Don't be a nice guy and go for the humiliation. :p

5. Don't be nice at all and smart mouth back. Warning - situation could escalate and everyone then has bad feelings.

I opt for 2 or 3. You might have lost a battle, but you won the war and if you can educate someone in the process, you did your part for future world peace. ;)
 
BillYards said:
Very good post! It is best to find out what rules you are playing under... During one bar tournament in South Carolina, I found out as I went, that you could not pocket the 8 off of any other ball, it had to be "clean". I laughed at the guy and said: "Nooooo! You're making these rules up as you go!" and he told me to shut up and that was the rule.

I guess if you have balls sitting in all 6 pockets, your opponent can never pocket the 8.

I have a low tolerance for people who don't know the "correct" rules, but have tried to do my part to educate them, by running tournaments myself and printing (and explaining) the rules.

These problems are just part of "the bonus" of shooting in bars. I personally have come to enjoy the challenge of winning under their rules. Any of this "honest effort" bull-s**t they can save for figure skating, where the competition is judged!
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I run into the same thing. In some bars, you can make the eight off another ball, in others you can't. In some bars, if your opponent scratches and your ball or the eight is in the kitchen, you can spot it. In others, you can't. In one tournament, you can try a masse shot as long as your grip hand does not go above your shoulder. In another tournament, if you scratch on the eight, you do not lose unless you make it on the same shot. I don't know how they come up with their rules:confused: and I have a hard time keeping them straight from one bar to the other. :D
 
acedotcom said:
In another tournament, if you scratch on the eight, you do not lose unless you make it on the same shot.
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That's the same as BCA rules.

However, most bar players I have seen call it a loss if you scratch on the 8 regardless of if you pocket it or not.

I play in an APA league and you lose with a scratch on the 8 there also.
 
NeZ said:
That's the same as BCA rules.

However, most bar players I have seen call it a loss if you scratch on the 8 regardless of if you pocket it or not.

I play in an APA league and you lose with a scratch on the 8 there also.
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It is BCA rules, but beyond that one exception they go back to "honest effort" no safe play. I told the TD "You can't adopt one BCA rule just because you happened to lose by scratching on the eight last week. If you want to play BCA, adopt all their rules." Of course, this made no sense to him.:)
 
I had a similar situation (as far as morals) last night. A guy questioned an obviously good hit of mine and we started to get into an argument, at which point I told him "Just don't worry about it, it was a good hit." At which point he turned to his girlfriend and said "I'm about to kick this guy's ass". Keep in mind we're in APA... and I could kneed this guy into bread if I wanted to lol. We kept playing, I won, and I shook his hand and said "No hard feelings", to which he seemed genuinely happy! It was kind of weird, I thought it would piss him off more somehow... but he was cool about it after that.
 
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