Bar Table Myths? - What are your thoughts?

Easier to "play", and easier to "win" are two completely different things. Everytime there's a discussion on this board about barbox's vs 9's, these two things get clustered up.

Mr. Betmore did not say it was easier to "win" on barboxes.
 
Da Poet said:
Easier to "play", and easier to "win" are two completely different things. Everytime there's a discussion on this board about barbox's vs 9's, these two things get clustered up.

Betmore did not say it was easier to "win" on barboxes.
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Poe-man,
I hope that most posters are getting it; you certainly do.

I will say that the better player is a favorite to win any game on any table at any time - it's just that a player with inferior skills has a fighting chance on the barbox. I refuse to believe that this is not the major reason for the popularity of the barbox - it makes you think you are Johnny Archer when you play on it.

P.S. - as recently as a week ago I had a top local barbox player (who plays only barboxes) tell me that straight pool would just be "too easy" on a 9 footer because "you will ALWAYS have a shot on the big table with the balls open." I asked him how often he had played 14.1, he answered, "Never, it's too easy."
 
it works both ways .i have seen pro players that we're not bar table players.not to say they couldn't run out ..... it's just a different game.
 
I dont know if playing on a bar table will "ruin" your big table game, but if you are not careful, it will make you lazy and you cannot be lazy on a big table. A bar table pocket will in most cases take balls that are bounced a diamond or more out from the pocket, where a big table very rarely will, unless hit with good speed. The Diamond bar boxes are an exception, but stil is the case, but to a smaller degree.

If you are a precision player and hit a ball to a certain point in the pocket, then it should not affect your big table play that much, but I find myself making balls on a bar table that I would never make on the 9ers.

I do find that its much easier to transition down from the 9 footers to the bar box, than it is the other way around for this reason.

JMHO
 
Scott Lee said:
Sorry Don, but I have to disagree with you here, and agree with Andrew. Two conditions that make playing on a 7' table more difficult than playing on a 9' table are: 1) congestion: 30% less playing area means that the POSSIBILITY of hooking yourself is substancially increased. Most barbox players do NOT have a 14.1 orientation, and as such, are more prone to this problem cropping up; 2) potential to scratch: the balls are the same size, but the playing area is significantly smaller. The pockets are the same size (for the most part). Therefore, there is less rail area to catch the CB...meaning that the potential for scratching is elevated. What do these two things mean? They mean that you'd better have your position play and stroke down pat, or fall victim to these two unchanging differences.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Good post Scott, I agree 100%.

I would also like to point out to Williebettmore that, quite often when playing barbox 8ball, if you just smash into clusters, you will often create other clusters. There are ways to "read" a cluster, i.e. get a general idea of where some of the balls will go. I don't like smashing into them every time, because often you are gonna lose the cueball, and rely on luck to get a shot. You would be very surprised at how often you can hook yourself playing like that.
 
bar tables are just break contests actually IMO. Yes a weaker player has the luck factor on a bar table, but the patterns you play on bar tables are much different than the patterns you play on a big table...b/c of the size variable (running into balls and clusters more). All other things being equal, I think the better breaker will come out ahead in the longrun.

Southpaw
 
Willie,

You did mention you were not sure how your league players matched up to barbox champions... Maybe this will help.

I played against quite a few on the west coast, and one thing was common amongst them all. If you got to the table and did not either play a frozen-to-a-ball safe or run out, you lost.

The champions I played got out from absolutely everywhere. They played such incredible breakout patterns, it was sickening. They routinely handled tables with 4-5 clusters with ease. It truly was demoralizing playing one of them.

And back to playing a frozen-to-the-ball safes... That by no means guaranteed you'd get a chance. These guys have spent their whole careers in these sorts of safety battles against other champions.

I tell you what, though.. I would love to move back there and play them some more in the tournaments. If you beat one of them, you knew you'd played a good set!

Russ
 
cuetechasaurus said:
Good post Scott, I agree 100%.

I would also like to point out to Williebettmore that, quite often when playing barbox 8ball, if you just smash into clusters, you will often create other clusters. There are ways to "read" a cluster, i.e. get a general idea of where some of the balls will go. I don't like smashing into them every time, because often you are gonna lose the cueball, and rely on luck to get a shot. You would be very surprised at how often you can hook yourself playing like that.
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Tech,
Obviously insurance balls are great when breaking clusters. However, the bar tables often leave huge clusters in the rack area. I noticed the best players just smashed into them with power. They then just broke up the resulting secondary clusters as well. Their success rate is much, much higher than such tactics on a tight 9-footer; and that was my only point. If a player is afraid of clusters, bar table 8-ball is not the game to play.
 
Russ Chewning said:
Willie,

You did mention you were not sure how your league players matched up to barbox champions... Maybe this will help.

I played against quite a few on the west coast, and one thing was common amongst them all. If you got to the table and did not either play a frozen-to-a-ball safe or run out, you lost.

The champions I played got out from absolutely everywhere. They played such incredible breakout patterns, it was sickening. They routinely handled tables with 4-5 clusters with ease. It truly was demoralizing playing one of them.


Russ
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Russ,
I like your "sickening" description. I've played some big table 8-ball with a group of IPT'ers, and it was the same. Runouts from everywhere despite the clusters.

I've seen Waldo and Big Arm John play some bar table 8-ball; and they are probably a little step above most of the players in this league.

With the league's best, they will win almost every game where they make a ball on the break; and they will win almost every game if you break dry against them (but will probably not runout as much as the monster players). The top half players could easily win a short set from a top player with some luck. I doubt that there are more than 5 players in the league that would want to match up with satman (I hope he reads this).
 
Southpaw said:
bar tables are just break contests actually IMO. Yes a weaker player has the luck factor on a bar table, but the patterns you play on bar tables are much different than the patterns you play on a big table...b/c of the size variable (running into balls and clusters more). All other things being equal, I think the better breaker will come out ahead in the longrun.

Southpaw
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Southpaw,
Excellent point which I forgot to mention. During the tournaments I won almost every game where I made a ball on the break; lost almost every game where I failed to make a ball on the break, and won almost every game where my opponent came up dry on his break. I can only assume that as the level of play increases the break becomes even MORE important. Just one more reason to play straight pool.
 
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