Bar tables and 9 footers

CaptainJR

CaptainJR

Shiver me timbers.
Silver Member
Does shooting on bar boxes hurt you game on the big table?

I'm thinking it does, but I can't come up with anything concrete to back that up.

I'm not look for theory here. The pockets are easier, but that isn't what I'm talking about. You know, if the object ball had touched the rail a diamond and a half up the rail, it wouldn't have went in the hole on a good 9' table. There is no fooling yourself so that isn't what I'm talking about.

Yes your only making shorter shots, but you do have those shorter shot on a 9' table, so why would it hurt to practice those short shots on a bar box?

They are symmetrical. 4.5 by 9 to 3.5 by 7.

4.5 / 9 = .5
3.5 / 7 = .5

A bank shot is still coming off the rail the same way. Short if you hit it hard, long if you hit it to easy.

So what is it?
 
CaptainJR said:
Does shooting on bar boxes hurt you game on the big table?

I'm thinking it does, but I can't come up with anything concrete to back that up.

I'm not look for theory here. The pockets are easier, but that isn't what I'm talking about. You know, if the object ball had touched the rail a diamond and a half up the rail, it wouldn't have went in the hole on a good 9' table. There is no fooling yourself so that isn't what I'm talking about.

Yes your only making shorter shots, but you do have those shorter shot on a 9' table, so why would it hurt to practice those short shots on a bar box?

They are symmetrical. 4.5 by 9 to 3.5 by 7.


4.5 / 9 = .5
3.5 / 7 = .5

A bank shot is still coming off the rail the same way. Short if you hit it hard, long if you hit it to easy.

So what is it?
Click to expand...

I don't think playing on 9 footers helps or hurts playing on 7 footers. I would have to say and have heard that when going to a 9 footer some people have dificulties with the longer shots. I myself prefer the 9 foot tables over all else. Playing on a 7 footer reminds me of when I was a kid playing on one of those tables that had pool balls about the same size as golf balls. Who wants to play straight pool on a 7 footer it doesn't even sound right. Anyhow I will be playing in my league tonight at Finleys Tavern in Seven Valleys, I believe I read in one of your posts about you mentioning this place. Maybe one day our paths will cross and we can talk about this wonderful game we play.
 
Different cloth, not a lot of bar boxes have Simonis.
This would be a factor in 'speed' shots. I have had trouble adjusting between the two cloths in my younger days. It doesn't seem as much as a problem these days.

Different rail type, not all bar boxes have the same quality rails as the 9 footers do. The angles do have a difference coming off the various types (manufactures) of rails. Sometimes the OB actually jumps off the rail, even on a slow hit.

With and oversized cue ball on the bar boxes, it is almost impossible to cut a ball frozen on the rail down the rail to a pocket.

Going from either a 9 to a 7 footer does have its problems IMO.

For an average or better player, going from a 9 to a 7 and back again, shouldn't hurt your game.
 
Nothing like a 9 footer to get your game in top shape. But play on a barbox for one or two straight months and then go back to a 9 footer and it'll take you a little while to get back all the way. It looks like you're playing on a football field and it's a total psyche out, especially on long shots. Your brain plays tricks with you and you think you have to hit it quite a bit harder and it throws your stroke, tempo, and timing completely out of whack. As Tom mentioned about cloth speed, rubber, and CB weight, and I'll add more clusters to contend with, but a long shoot looks like a piece of cake otherwise. It's the distance and depth perception of going back to the big table that's a problem.
 
drivermaker, I could not have said it better.

When I don't play on a 9' for more than 2 weeks I have trouble with long shots when I get back to one.

I play on bar tables at least twice a week since it's better than not playing competitively at all.

My home table is an 8' so that helps the transition somewhat from the 7' back to the 9'

Wally <~~ Mr. Versatility :D
 
I think the problem is people aim sloppy/lazy on a bar box. They soon realize well less than a center pocket hit will go in. If you carry that to a big table it obviously won't work. Hit the pockets center on a BB and it will help carry over to a 9 footer.

Along with that players accept longer shots on a BB. Not a wise idea on a 9 footer. Play the game as it should be played on both tables, it makes adjustments minimal. Personally when I am going to play an event/match on a BB, I warm up on a big table first. If I play/practice on both tables it really doesn't make a difference.

I will say though, when I've played mostly on a BB the 9 footer takes some getting use to. I think it goes back to what I mentioned earlier. The nuance between tables, like side pockets, banks, c/b weight etc, leave to some degree if you're away very long.

Rod
 
Do you guys LIKE playing on 7 footers??? I have only played on 9 footers in the past, but I recently went to a friend's house to shoot on his 7 footer (his state championship Valley team needs another player for the open state tournament coming up; this was an audition). I don't think I missed more than 2 balls in 2 or 3 hours. I kind of enjoyed it, it made me feel like I'm better than I really am - there really are no hard shots on a 7 footer, if you can see it you can make it. It really was kind of fun, seems like straight pool skills are a real benefit on this size table (pinpoint position and breaking clusters). I'm not sure I want to get involved if it will adversely affect my game on the 9 footers.
 
CaptainJR said:
They are symmetrical. 4.5 by 9 to 3.5 by 7.

4.5 / 9 = .5
3.5 / 7 = .5



So what is it?
Click to expand...
I'm bored, so I'm going to nitpick some points. Forgive me.

They aren't symmetrical. They have the same playing field proportions.

There is no 9' dimension of any relevance on a 9' table. 4.5' ft looks to be the approximate measure of the "green cloth" when you count the cushions. But the lengthwise respective dimension won't be twice as long.

A 7' bar table should be called something else, since most 7' bar tables are sized between a 7' home table and an 8' table.

Other than that, just like changing from house cues to your regular cue, or changing from dry bowling lanes to slicker lanes, or Par 3 golf courses to real courses, or short tees to pro tees, the game is similar but there are enough differences in each that require a different focus.

Smaller tables are generally more congested. Big tables have longer shots. That's the tradeoff.

Recent CCBoard Thread

Fred
 
this is a good topic!

I have gone back and forth practicing on a 7ft and a 9ft, and find if i play on a 7footer for a while and then goto a 9footer, i tend to play better, cuz i slow roll, the cue on a 7footer, so it makes cue control alot easier.

Plus i find i can play safe better on a 9ft, with long shots. Only because there is more green and its tougher to kick at shots and hit them.

Now on the opposite, when i play on a 9ft for a couple weeks straight, and then goto a 7ft for tournaments, it seems like i get beat really badly. Its like if i miss or try to play safe no matter what happens the other person runs out.

I think its because, normally if you miss on a 9ft, most of the time you have a chance of getting back to the table, depending on how the balls are layed out.

But yes if i play on a 9footer for a while and then go back to a 7ft, i tend to play better, but its like i cant play safe to save my life lol.
 
IMO 9 ball should be played on a 9' and the smaller tables are for 8 ball, I've always felt funny playing 8 ball on a 9' or 9 ball on small tables makes them different games. Snooker on anything but a 12' is just plain wrong.
 
One thing I did not read anyone saying is confidence. Myself playing on 9ftr 98% of the time when I switch to a bar box and run a few racks that makes me think I'm a little better than I am. Someone mentioned softer stroke when playing on a BB. I agree, just because a 9ft table appears so huge most people who come from the small tables to the big ones think they have to crank the ball to get it in. With most 9ft tables they generally have faster cloth BB's alot of time have carpet on them not cloth so alot of times you don't have to hit the ball much if any harder on the 9ft tables, this is something I forget(alot). If I play on the BB's and really try to play on them then go back to the big tables genreally Im alot better player, I will have pocketing confidence and the right speed needed to play my best.
 
CaptainJR said:
Does shooting on bar boxes hurt you game on the big table?

I'm thinking it does, but I can't come up with anything concrete to back that up.

I'm not look for theory here. The pockets are easier, but that isn't what I'm talking about. You know, if the object ball had touched the rail a diamond and a half up the rail, it wouldn't have went in the hole on a good 9' table. There is no fooling yourself so that isn't what I'm talking about.

Yes your only making shorter shots, but you do have those shorter shot on a 9' table, so why would it hurt to practice those short shots on a bar box?

They are symmetrical. 4.5 by 9 to 3.5 by 7.

4.5 / 9 = .5
3.5 / 7 = .5

A bank shot is still coming off the rail the same way. Short if you hit it hard, long if you hit it to easy.

So what is it?
Click to expand...
i dont think it does, i think it depends on how good you play and can adjust to the size . if you play every day then going from big table to small is easy . going from small to big only takes a while the the table looks normal again. but thats if you play every day. if you dont play every day then you will have more problems that just table size in my opinion:)
 
Fred Agnir said:
They aren't symmetrical. They have the same playing field proportions. Fred
Click to expand...

Quite right, Fred. Polygons that have corresponding angles and consist of line segments in equal proportion are called "similar", not symmetrical.
 
for me its the other way. i play my pool on a 10foot snooker table and those itty-bitty 9 footers seem to have enourmous pockets. my problem becomes cueball speed when moving to the smaller tables, especially b/c the 10' table i play most on has slow cloth.
 
adjusting

After a few racks I can adjust to the speed of the carpet on bb's and the dead rails. What really gets my goat is the big cueball, if the place doesn't have the magnetic one. It throws much more and my aiming gets all messed up. Sometimes I have trouble trying to soft-roll certain shots too, but that kind of thing just doesn't fly on the bb.
 
Funny. One and only table in our club is actually a 9 foot barbox. We did our best to get it as close as possible to regulation table. Simonis cloth, Aramith balls, reworked ball return system. But no matter what we do to it, it's still a barbox despite being 9ft.

Regulation tables are lower by more than 5cm, rails are a lot different, slate is different, pockets are harder as they should be, etc. I used to practice a lot on our big barbox, but in tournaments which are played on regulation tables I was a little uncomfortable with my stance not being used to a lower table. Took me a few matches to get used to fast and low table. Fortunately, a poolhall nearby finally opened up after 2 years of silence with 5 regulation tables, so now I have plenty of time to actually practice on proper equipment.
 
sjm said:
Quite right, Fred. Polygons that have corresponding angles and consist of line segments in equal proportion are called "similar", not symmetrical.
Click to expand...


OK, so I should have said proportional. You all know what I meant. I guess I was trying to use a fancy word and goofed it up. :p

Thank you for all the responces here. I had quite a weekend and it had to do with this topic. I'll be starting another thread about my weekend. It will mention that I played a bar box 8-ball tournament on Sat. and a 9'er 9-ball tournament on Sun.

JR
 
Rodd said:
I think the problem is people aim sloppy/lazy on a bar box. They soon realize well less than a center pocket hit will go in. If you carry that to a big table it obviously won't work. Hit the pockets center on a BB and it will help carry over to a 9 footer.

Rod
Click to expand...

Your right about “sloppy”. For me and others that I have noticed is that on a bar box, we do not care about our stance as much. And I don't mean proper stance, I just mean the stance we use on a big table changes as we go to a bar box. This means that the stroke we use will also change somewhat. Next time you play on a bar box, pretend it's a 9 footer. Notice the change. The bad rolls and bad rails you could deal with on a big table, so what on a bar box (That is unless it's crazy) Even though the balls on a bar box after a break tend to be more congested, you can move the cue ball around more predictably because the distances are much shorter. Anyway, just my opinion
 
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