Bar Tournaments

[Troublemaker]

Once upon a time there used to be a lot of cheap bar tournaments in my area, but they've all disappeared. When I've asked the bar owners why, they all say the same thing, the "sharks" would come in, get a glass of water or one $2 beer and then scare everyone else away....it wasn't good for business.

I'm sure this is a common problem, so I'm wondering what ideas there are to manage this. I guess you could have a B & C tournament, but I think handicapping would be too much trouble.

I feel like I've seen a thread on this before, but I searched and couldn't find it.....

Thanks for your help.

 

[sixpack]

Once upon a time there used to be a lot of cheap bar tournaments in my area, but they've all disappeared. When I've asked the bar owners why, they all say the same thing, the "sharks" would come in, get a glass of water or one $2 beer and then scare everyone else away....it wasn't good for business.

I'm sure this is a common problem, so I'm wondering what ideas there are to manage this. I guess you could have a B & C tournament, but I think handicapping would be too much trouble.

I feel like I've seen a thread on this before, but I searched and couldn't find it.....

Thanks for your help.

That's a tough one. I hear that where I live there used to be tons of good bar table tourneys, but there are not anymore. The exact reason you are saying is probably why. A friend called me and said there was one at a bar near my house. I'm one of the 'sharks' and so is he. So we went. Only 6 people played in the tourney for $7 each. I would say 5 were sharks and one was a banger. The house took two dollars (per player) and they paid two places. $20 & $10 were the payouts.

So 5 good bar players (each would be a favorite to win what used to be a good average b-player bar tourney) trying to beat a banger out of $5 isn't going to attract too many bangers.

The problem in our area is that there are soo many good players that nobody who's not a serious regular player could ever really tell.

In the tourney we played. We sharks all knew each other. The banger just knew he couldn't win and he probably won't be back. The bar owner just wondered how come nobody shows up to his tournaments anymore. The sharks probably won't return because who wants to beat 5 bar champions for $20. Better off going to a sports bar and playing for $2 a game.

But other sharks will be there next week. Now if ALL the sharks showed up, then I'd want to play.

You pose a really good question and I am interested in the respones.

~rc

 

[cardiac kid]

Hi Folks,

Recently someone posted that Jose Parica showed up at a local bar in Vegas for their weekly tournament. I don't care but others evidently did.

Here in Rochester we play two formats. Race to one, double elimination or handicap. In the handicap event, after the break and the high or low's are determined, the "weaker" players are allowed to remove a predetermined number of their chosen balls from the table in eight ball. Believe me, the best players don't always win in either format. Beyond that, the tournament director should always reserve the right to ask players not to participate. If it is applied fairly, no one has a problem.

Lyn

 

[stick8]

try this

Once upon a time there used to be a lot of cheap bar tournaments in my area, but they've all disappeared. When I've asked the bar owners why, they all say the same thing, the "sharks" would come in, get a glass of water or one $2 beer and then scare everyone else away....it wasn't good for business.

I'm sure this is a common problem, so I'm wondering what ideas there are to manage this. I guess you could have a B & C tournament, but I think handicapping would be too much trouble.

I feel like I've seen a thread on this before, but I searched and couldn't find it.....

Thanks for your help.

Run some handacap tournys??? worked for me!!!!!:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[Troublemaker]

Handicaps....

In the handicap event, after the break and the high or low's are determined, the "weaker" players are allowed to remove a predetermined number of their chosen balls from the table in eight ball.

Interesting. The problem is I don't think the bars are willing to bother with assigning handicaps. Is there a simple way of doing it that I'm not thinking of?

 

[Johnnyt]

A lot of people laugh about those $2-$7 entry bar tournaments where the winner gets $20-$50. I use to play in a lot of them. One of the many things my Dad told me over the years was, "don't ever,EVER win a cheap tournament. If you do your easy action is gone in that bar and the surrounding ones."

What he meant was you can make a hell of a lot more money after the tournament or on another night in that bar by coming in 3rd or 4th. I think it was in the COM that Newman said, "the big money is made after the tournament". He was talking big table and big money tournaments, but it's the same for small and bar tournaments, just on a lower money scale.

If your not good enough to play with the big dogs the best you can do is grind it out $5, $10, or $20 a game. Johnnyt

 

[smoooothstroke]

bar tourneys

The bar tourneys are still doing well in this area.Usually there is a big drop off in tournament attendance during the summer but this time most of the tourneys stayed active.
As far as A players who don't spend money at the bar and nearly always money,there are a few of those around.
My skill level is probably closer to the bar banger then that of the A player but personally I prefer playing against the best players in any tournament.
I know there are some $2.00 tourneys and meat shoots also but I don't go to those and I don't think the ringers do either.
Although I go to bars strictly to play pool and not to drink I try to spend some money there on food if nothing else.

 

[ccshrimper]

Where I'm at, the bar would make more off the "sharks" than the rest of the field combined. Usually anything I win in a tournament I spend double that drinking and buying shots for my friends. The mid-level players who complain about the "sharks" showing up are usually the nittiest when it comes to supporting the bar too. If they are so cheap and complaining about a chance to play Jose Parica in a cheap tournament, then how much do you think they'll spend in the bar drinking?

If you want to keep a tournament going without doing handicaps, make a rule where if you win the tournament you can't come back for a month. No splitting the tournament either and saying the other guy won so you can play the next week too lol... Hell, just rig the tournament like a guy did around here. All the good players were in the same bracket and cried/complained and didn't want to show up again to a rigged tourney lol...

 

[RiverCity]

Handicap it to where the "sharks" wont come back. If they win once..... make sure they cant win again.
As far as the bar goes, suggest to the bar owner to do a drink minimum.... they will be more likely to help you promote it and will throw in giveaway prizes etc.
Chuck

 

[cardiac kid]

Handicap it to where the "sharks" wont come back. If they win once..... make sure they cant win again.Chuck

That was the one option I hated most. I spend lots of money preparing to play. Whether it's bar box or 9', I try to do what's necessary. One thing I found true regardless of where I play is, the loudest complainers are the players who refuse to practice or gamble to get better. They want more weight 'cause they can't win even. They play the better players with way too much weight and win. Then they play players their caliber and lose. They can't figure out what's wrong with the picture!

We have roughly the same thirty or forty players at every major event. Whether it's Vegas or Rochester. How long might it take to find out each players true speed?

Break each tournament into A and B brackets. Once down to the last four players (2 Ea) then handicap the finals. Two B players will always cash. Determine A's and B's in a player auction. Once in a while someone will bid a B player into the A bracket. The tournament director knows who is who and can correct obvious "get'em out of the B bracket" bids. Works very well here in Rochester.

Lyn

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Once upon a time there used to be a lot of cheap bar tournaments in my area, but they've all disappeared. When I've asked the bar owners why, they all say the same thing, the "sharks" would come in, get a glass of water or one $2 beer and then scare everyone else away....it wasn't good for business.

I'm sure this is a common problem, so I'm wondering what ideas there are to manage this. I guess you could have a B & C tournament, but I think handicapping would be too much trouble.

I feel like I've seen a thread on this before, but I searched and couldn't find it.....

Thanks for your help.

Move to Phoenix Metro Area, there are a lot of CHEAP TOURNAMENTS SEVEN Night a week, at last count there was over 80+ Weekly TOURNAMENTS listed in one of the (3) Billiards Newspapers.

We even have a couple of Scotch Tournaments where you can play with a STRIPPER as your partner if that is your thing.

When I say CHEAP I am talking $5.00-$10.00 Entry, and if they are Big Tables GREEN FEES of 2-4 BUCKS,, or if Bar Tables either Splitting Quarter on mostly $.50/Game Tables, or Looser Pays.

BTW Most of the 80+ Weekly TOURNAMENTS listed in one of the (3) Billiards Newspapers are Handicapped, So you need to get your Arizona Rating Card that is no big deal. Ifd you move to AZ I will point you towards JAZZ who will fix you up with a "CARD"
.

 

[Pushout]

That was the one option I hated most. I spend lots of money preparing to play. Whether it's bar box or 9', I try to do what's necessary. One thing I found true regardless of where I play is, the loudest complainers are the players who refuse to practice or gamble to get better. They want more weight 'cause they can't win even. They play the better players with way too much weight and win. Then they play players their caliber and lose. They can't figure out what's wrong with the picture!
Lyn

Truly, one of the most profound statements I've read on a topic such as this!!! Rep for you, Lyn!!

 

[stick8]

just me

Interesting. The problem is I don't think the bars are willing to bother with assigning handicaps. Is there a simple way of doing it that I'm not thinking of?

i wish i could solve you problem, all i can tell you is my system. i have been running handcap for 10yr now and have had good results, you have to have knolledge of your players shooting ability. then i put them in a rating of two to seven minus one,start most all my ladys at 2 rating guys below avg a 3 guy that can make 2-4 ball a 4, so on ect ,i charge $20 to play $15 to prize $5 to house i open tables use red circle qb.if you make over $50 bucks you go up one rating, if after 3 tournys you donr win you drop back one.simple if i can help e-mail stick8@windstream .net or pn me STICK:thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[SKUNKBOY]

two tournaments...

Try running two seperate tournaments...one for 'C' and below with a $5 entry and one for 'B' and above with a higher entry fee. If you run your tournaments on Saturday or Sunday, you could start one at noon and the other at 6 or 7. If you use week nights, use two different nights. Of course, you'll have to weed out the 'B' and above players from the 'C' and below tournament and that might raise some problems (the old "I'm not a 'B' player" kinda thing) but you gotta draw the line somewhere.

One of our local tournaments has decided to pay out so far ($5 entry, pay out to 12 places w/32 players) that the better players won't bother with it at all. That's a fun tournament because nobody is dead serious about winning...just having fun and enjoying the company of others.

You'll never satisfy everyone. You can only do the best you can and take the ridicule from those that think they can do better (but even won't try).

Good luck with whatever method you choose but whatever you do, don't stop running tournaments.

L8R...Ken

 

[BillyKoda]

I run a weekly $6 tourney for 28 weeks a year, through the winter months, and this year will be my 3rd year running it. These tourneys have been run for 12 or more years according to the locals. We have our better players who win most of the time but it has always been encouraged to help the weaker players. Help is not letting them win but to teach them how to play better pool. I have seen dramatic improvement with many players. I also reward all players who play 8 weeks or more during the season with a final tournament with larger cash prizes and other prizes given away through drawings. If my memory serves me we had just over 60 different players last year, this town only has 8,000 residence. We keep it fun and they just keep coming, average turnout is between 10 and 24 players. We also run a 9-Ball tourney after the official 8-Ball tourney every week. It helps to get the beer vendors involved with beer specials and weekly prizes.

 

[ScottW]

IMHO - the key factor to a successful bar tournament is the person/venue running it.

If they don't give half a crap about it, then it's going to suck and die.

If they put some love and thought into it, the players will sense this and keep coming back.

I've played in bar tournaments where the TD/venue made an effort, and they had a consistent crowd. I've also played in them where the TD/venue just looked at it as a way to make more beer money, and didn't really care about the tournament itself - ran it badly (both technically and customer-service-wise) and they were awful.

There's one near me that I recenly found out about and have tried to "adopt" - I'm trying to show the guy running it how to run it better. Supplied him with real bracket sheets, showed him how to do byes, how to do the draw, etc. - but aside from using the sheets I provided, the rest is in-one-ear-out-the-other. Granted, the guy who's in charge of the tournament is someone who shouldn't be - he's the kitchen guy and he's got that to deal with. The bar owner, who has nothing better to do than hang around and hob-nob, would be the guy to do it, but he makes the kitchen guy do it. *shrug*

 

[PROG8R]

I think they are missing the point. It is a BAR tournament. Get your drink on and have some fun.
We always played and yes there were some very strong bar mechanics that played, but they never caused more pain than a Ice cold beer wouldnt numb up a bit.
The payouts; Well, they did very, but I usually made out better after the tourney playing king of the hill for 5-10$ a game all night.

 

[DaveK]

The answer is very simple, just take the money out of the event. Rather than award a cash prize, award gift certificates for product at that bar (food or drinks). This would not attract the 'sharks' AND would cater to the bar regulars (and possibly bring in some new regular clients).

Dave

 

[RiverCity]

That was the one option I hated most. I spend lots of money preparing to play. Whether it's bar box or 9', I try to do what's necessary. One thing I found true regardless of where I play is, the loudest complainers are the players who refuse to practice or gamble to get better.
Lyn

We're talking about people who play B speed on up basically "crashing" a bar bangers tournament to win the 50-75 dollar prize. Its not fair, and its not right. I did it for several years, and looking back as I got older... wish I hadn't. These are tournaments for the bar patrons to hang out with their friends and have fun. If you run off the bangers you are doing a disservice to the game, and the bars business. Thats not a cool thing to do.
Let the bar bangers have their tournaments, and go to the pool hall.
Chuck

 

[trustyrusty]

There are a few local bar tourneys here, and like mentioned above, it has more to do with how it's run than who shows up or what the payout is...

One tourney takes WAY too long (only 2 tables for 16 players - double elim.), but is run pretty well on lightning quick Valleys. In most cases women are going to 3 in 8ball, most guys to 4, and a couple of tougher players (including to owner) to 5. I've played in this one quite a bit, and still haven't cashed (top 3 - I've been 4th a buncha times...lol). But, I enjoy the competition, and have beaten every player that regularly participates at least once in the tourney. Downside - starts at 6pm Sat. and can go until 2 am Sun. Yuck - especially when I have pre-6am teetimes on Sat. and Sun. LOL.

Another that I've only played in twice is played on Diamonds (barboxes), and has some stellar competition along with a number of not so much. Drawback to this one is 8ball is a race to 1...9ball race to 3 for everyone. I've been eliminated from both by a coin flip (double elim.). Again, never cashed.

The last is a winter only thing that starts LATE Thurs. nites (used to play after leagues were over). 9ball on so/so equipment...but, not horrible (6 Cougars, that could use a bit more cloth care - putting it nicely). Just a race to 2 (again, easy to lose without shooting), but very decent competition - a few who try to steal (you know what I mean). I've actually been in the hot seat a couple of times in this one, but haven't won it...cashed a number of times.

Of course there are ones at the poolhall, but I'm pretty limited on time, so I try to get to those a couple of times a year too. All in all, there is quite a bit to chose from around here, but none that are MUST plays....As for the bangers complaints (which I would probably be pretty close to being in some's eyes); if they don't want to play better players then way play at all? Very, very few participants in the tourneys I mentioned are not capable of a break and run in either 8 or 9 ball though, so I'm not sure if any are true bangers that play in these. Occasionally you'll get one of the really good players in the area that'll play in a tourney, but with such short races, and winner breaks, they aren't a lock to run off with the money. Even a local guy that won the VNEA 9ball nationals will play occasionally in a couple of 'em (though some a very discouraged if they see him there....personally I want to face him in the 2nd round after I've had a chance to warm up, and just hope I don't lose the flip ). Wish I could play in 'em more.....