Barbox 8-ball
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
9-footers vs barboxes...
I'm afraid that my experiences of US barboxes is limited to a couple of weeks spent in NYC and a week in Memphis, but I've got a couple observations...
1) In the UK the pub game is very different to the game played in a club; The tables are smaller, the pockets are cut differently, the balls are different size & weight and the tables are covered with a different type of cloth.
2) In a public bar the game most commonly played is 8-ball (local rules apply - often made up as the game goes along!) mainly coz that is the easiest rules for a casual player to understand.
3) On a barbox the cueball is often a different size/weight/consistency from the other balls.
Even with my limited experience, the differences between the diciplines seem (to me anyway) to be the same in the US.
How can you possibly compare the two? Surely they are different games? As different as snooker & pool, no?
In my neck of the woods, barbox players rarely play American pool (9-ball/8-ball/14.1) on 9-footers and vice-versa. I play shots on a 7ft pub table that I would never attempt on a 9-footer because of the differences in the equipment. By the same token, the sidespin, pocket-tolerences, shot weight, cue power etc, etc are very different on a 9-ft Brunswick / Sam / BCA / Diamond et al compared to a barbox.
I'm don't want to criticize either game as they both require different skills, but as a 9-ball player, I would never practice on a 7-ft table. To me it would be like practicing tennis in a squash court.
Sorry for taking so long, I'm just intrigued that anyone would spend $1 on a game of 9-ball on a barbox. The rules don't suit the table.
And it would be over in 20secs.
BS
I'm afraid that my experiences of US barboxes is limited to a couple of weeks spent in NYC and a week in Memphis, but I've got a couple observations...
1) In the UK the pub game is very different to the game played in a club; The tables are smaller, the pockets are cut differently, the balls are different size & weight and the tables are covered with a different type of cloth.
2) In a public bar the game most commonly played is 8-ball (local rules apply - often made up as the game goes along!) mainly coz that is the easiest rules for a casual player to understand.
3) On a barbox the cueball is often a different size/weight/consistency from the other balls.
Even with my limited experience, the differences between the diciplines seem (to me anyway) to be the same in the US.
How can you possibly compare the two? Surely they are different games? As different as snooker & pool, no?
In my neck of the woods, barbox players rarely play American pool (9-ball/8-ball/14.1) on 9-footers and vice-versa. I play shots on a 7ft pub table that I would never attempt on a 9-footer because of the differences in the equipment. By the same token, the sidespin, pocket-tolerences, shot weight, cue power etc, etc are very different on a 9-ft Brunswick / Sam / BCA / Diamond et al compared to a barbox.
I'm don't want to criticize either game as they both require different skills, but as a 9-ball player, I would never practice on a 7-ft table. To me it would be like practicing tennis in a squash court.
Sorry for taking so long, I'm just intrigued that anyone would spend $1 on a game of 9-ball on a barbox. The rules don't suit the table.
And it would be over in 20secs.
BS
APA7 said:
The "A" player is rated this because he plays in 9-ball tournaments on 9 ft. tables and they have him rated as an "A" player. But he lives in my "rural" area where all we have to play on is 7 ft. bar tables, so most of his play is on these tables.
I know he has won some very tough bar table tournaments in the "city", but I don't know how he has done in the 9-ball tournaments on the 9 footers. (I'll need to ask him.) Although when he is in the 9-ball/9 ft. tournaments, his competition is "AA" and "AAA" players.
Anyway I see no point in spending too much time learning to play on a 9 ft. since all of the tournaments around here are on 7 ft. tables. And 8-ball is my game. (No 9 ft. 8-ball tournaments anywhere near.) Maybe if my game improves quite a bit...
DelaWho??? said:
I could not agree more! I worked (got paid to play) at a pool hall with 9' tables and would hit the barboxes at the local lounges after we closed business for the night... I was all but unstoppable on a barbox after warming-up for hours on a 9' table. Every shot seems like a short shot, kicks, caroms, combinations, and just plain WILD shots all worked for me... It seemed like if I could imagine it, I could do it.
Practicing and playing on 9' tables and developing great cueball control are the keys to becoming a barbox god.
As far as barbox breaking... making 4 or 5 on the break every time would be... a dream for me! I use a break where I get at least 1 about 90% of the time, and I squat the cueball in the middle of the table.
Billy_Bob said:
U missed it. Noone was saying U should play on 9 fters. All I was saying is that the chart U are using to rate UR self based on how many balls U run, etc, is based on playing 9 ball on a 9 ft table. No offense, but based on what described about UR game, U would have a tough time beating a solid D player. Sorry for the dose of reality.
Brian
Secaucus Fats said:
I'm game for this, care to start a new thread for it?
Rofl ....
For every player out there that 'thinks' they have a great break, there is another player out there that has a better 'rack'..... lol Ever watch 2 top
rated players playing each other? The one that wins is the one that
'nullifies' the other player's break shots.
As for the 4 or 5 balls on the break, I will tell you what. I will bet you I can watch you break 3 times, and then bet $50 a break that you won't make 1 or more balls on the break, and let you break 10 times, and I will walk away with some of your money .... lol
Some of these 'breakers' are thinking of their best ever day of breaking against a low level type shooter that doesn't know any different.
How many of you out there have been playing great in a tournament, only to come up against a real good player (better than you are), and have your break completely dry up, not making anything on the break. Oh yes, and the best rackers are subtle, not obvious.
With a good racker, most people do not even know they are being racked, and even if they do, they keep calling for a rerack thinking that will correct the problem. Instead, they should learn how to switch up their break
DEPENDING ON HOW THEY ARE RACKED, so their break can become
a significant factor again. You see, being 'racked' is dependent on where the cue ball is positioned for the break, and what type of english you are breaking with.
As it has been said, 'You put points on the board with Offense, you win with Defense'.
For every player out there that 'thinks' they have a great break, there is another player out there that has a better 'rack'..... lol Ever watch 2 top
rated players playing each other? The one that wins is the one that
'nullifies' the other player's break shots.
As for the 4 or 5 balls on the break, I will tell you what. I will bet you I can watch you break 3 times, and then bet $50 a break that you won't make 1 or more balls on the break, and let you break 10 times, and I will walk away with some of your money .... lol
Some of these 'breakers' are thinking of their best ever day of breaking against a low level type shooter that doesn't know any different.
How many of you out there have been playing great in a tournament, only to come up against a real good player (better than you are), and have your break completely dry up, not making anything on the break. Oh yes, and the best rackers are subtle, not obvious.
With a good racker, most people do not even know they are being racked, and even if they do, they keep calling for a rerack thinking that will correct the problem. Instead, they should learn how to switch up their break
DEPENDING ON HOW THEY ARE RACKED, so their break can become
a significant factor again. You see, being 'racked' is dependent on where the cue ball is positioned for the break, and what type of english you are breaking with.
As it has been said, 'You put points on the board with Offense, you win with Defense'.
Rofl ....
For every player out there that 'thinks' they have a great break, there is another player out there that has a better 'rack'..... lol Ever watch 2 top
rated players playing each other? The one that wins is the one that
'nullifies' the other player's break shots.
As for the 4 or 5 balls on the break, I will tell you what. I will bet you I can watch you break 3 times, and then bet $50 a break that you won't make 1 or more balls on the break, and let you break 10 times, and I will walk away with some of your money .... lol
Some of these 'breakers' are thinking of their best ever day of breaking against a low level type shooter that doesn't know any different.
How many of you out there have been playing great in a tournament, only to come up against a real good player (better than you are), and have your break completely dry up, not making anything on the break. Oh yes, and the best rackers are subtle, not obvious.
With a good racker, most people do not even know they are being racked, and even if they do, they keep calling for a rerack thinking that will correct the problem. Instead, they should learn how to switch up their break
DEPENDING ON HOW THEY ARE RACKED, so their break can become
a significant factor again. You see, being 'racked' is dependent on where the cue ball is positioned for the break, and what type of english you are breaking with.
As it has been said, 'You put points on the board with Offense, you win with Defense'.
For every player out there that 'thinks' they have a great break, there is another player out there that has a better 'rack'..... lol Ever watch 2 top
rated players playing each other? The one that wins is the one that
'nullifies' the other player's break shots.
As for the 4 or 5 balls on the break, I will tell you what. I will bet you I can watch you break 3 times, and then bet $50 a break that you won't make 1 or more balls on the break, and let you break 10 times, and I will walk away with some of your money .... lol
Some of these 'breakers' are thinking of their best ever day of breaking against a low level type shooter that doesn't know any different.
How many of you out there have been playing great in a tournament, only to come up against a real good player (better than you are), and have your break completely dry up, not making anything on the break. Oh yes, and the best rackers are subtle, not obvious.
With a good racker, most people do not even know they are being racked, and even if they do, they keep calling for a rerack thinking that will correct the problem. Instead, they should learn how to switch up their break
DEPENDING ON HOW THEY ARE RACKED, so their break can become
a significant factor again. You see, being 'racked' is dependent on where the cue ball is positioned for the break, and what type of english you are breaking with.
As it has been said, 'You put points on the board with Offense, you win with Defense'.
Snapshot9 said:
You got that right Scott, I don't even put the CB down on the table till the balls are racked. I have a different break for when the balls are racked a bit forward of the spot, a bit behind the spot, tight or loose and if they are racked a bit out of line. And if I really get the feeling I'm being racked I'll soft break and let him/her deal with the mess.
Gaps ....
I don't put Gaps, and I never tell my racking secrets, it took me 44 years
to learn them. Almost anything can be copied from Pool. You can sit behind
a good player and pick up his breaking point and english used and where he
hits the head ball, but you can not pick up racking secrets unless the player shows you himself.
APA7 said:
I don't put Gaps, and I never tell my racking secrets, it took me 44 years
to learn them. Almost anything can be copied from Pool. You can sit behind
a good player and pick up his breaking point and english used and where he
hits the head ball, but you can not pick up racking secrets unless the player shows you himself.
I NEVER give anyone a shoddy rack... but I heard that you can leave the middle ball in the back of the 8 ball rack just a little bit loose and it will really change the breaking performance of your opponent.
I actually rack the same for everyone and try to give a good rack. However, I have had great luck with people not breaking well on my racks. I often break my own racks and have no problems... Maybe they just get over-amped and mess up.
I actually rack the same for everyone and try to give a good rack. However, I have had great luck with people not breaking well on my racks. I often break my own racks and have no problems... Maybe they just get over-amped and mess up.
Secaucus Fats said:The absolute worst thing for me is when I'm playing and I don't pocket anything and leave a wide open table for my opponent to run. When that happens.. I may appear calm and collected, but in my mind I am committing Sepukko with my cue, while simultaneously jumping out the window into traffic screaming like a primal ape.
This is the exact situation that is one of the main reasons I don’t play on bar boxes anymore. You take the same situation and put it on a 9’ table and your position is not nearly as bad. On a 7’ table there are no long shots and the pockets are buckets. A mediocre player can run out a open 7’ table. While they are doing so they bump the side rail a diamond and a half from the corner and the ball still drops. They don’t really need a plan, most anything will do cause there are no long shots.
If someone runs out in this situation on a 9’ table at least I know they had to make the balls and had some kind of plan.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
Snapshot9 said:
Giving anything less than your best effort to rack the balls right is unethical in my opinion. The only acceptable thing to me is to arrange the ball placement in nine ball. This is based on the predictions of where particular balls are likely to end up.
Twisting the rack, putting in gaps, racking high or low or ANY adjustment that deliberately give the breaker less than a good solid rack for the purposes of messing up his chances of a getting a good break is tantamount to cheating. No different than moving a ball while the game is in progress.
I have been in situations where I am breaking great and then all of a sudden nothing's going in. Upon inpsection of subsequent racks I find all sorts of interesting things. Usually this scenario ends with the racker challenging me to rack my own, which leads to me breaking them good again.
John
don't know if you've seen the video floating around dc++ of corey playing niels (? if I remember right) barbox 8 ball. I thought it was a very interesting video...you might want to check it out
cuetechasaurus said:
onepocketchump said:
In defense of anyone who cares about it, understanding racking doesn't necessarily mean cheating.
These are a couple of major rack items in a poor rack that make breakers get the automatic wing ball in 9-ball or corner ball in 8-ball. To ensure that these items aren't in the rack shouldn't be considered cheating in anyone's book.
Fred
Cornerman said:
When it comes to 8 ball, I accept almost any rack, I especially like it when the head ball is loose, it gives me a better angle at the second ball in. I've had my opponents ask me if I want a re-rack when they see me studying it. %99 of the time I'll say no and accept it as is.
One of my team mates asked me about this(one that was notorious for racking loose). I told him that it's to his disadvantage to do that, if someone has taken the time to study how different racks break they would know that the best way(defensively) to rack for your opponent is to have a perfectly tight rack.
If you leave gaps, you leave the opportunity for someone to exploit them. JMHO
i had a guy ask me if i wanted a re-rack last night. it was loose, but i said: "no, i need to figure out how to break this one". i hadn't made a ball yet (or even spread them well) on his rack, but i figured it out after a couple more tries (once i was paying attention...). now i've got his number until he changes his rack 
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