basavich bashing?

[cuejoey]

I was curious about Wanderone's playing ability for the longest time. A while ago I met a man whom was quite famous in California decades ago for owning a couple poolrooms, one of which, ALL of the top players in the world would go. This man has seen it all, and he knew Fats very well, and by this, I mean he knew BOTH sides of the man. Fats was THE hustler, the ultimate hustler, and if you saw this man for months or years and thought he couldn't play, he put on a fantastic act. I asked this man, 'could Fats really play, or was he all hype?' ....he looked at me with wide eyes, as if he were about to uncover the location of some buried treasure and said, 'oh yeah, the man could play...and he had the dirtiest mouth you could ever imagine'.

People like Byrne and alot of other notable participants in pool's upbringing, who claimed Fats was just a 'B' player, or maybe a low 'A', were either fooled by perhaps one of the greatest acts ever put on by a man, or they HATED HIS GUTS, and smeared his reputation long after his death.

Please tell me, if you're a hustler like Fats, and you are going to play on TV against Mosconi, who was known as the greatest player to the public at the time, are you really going to beat him? Are you going to try? Or are you going to let the man clean your clock, as he is expected to? This was Fat's opportunity to advertise himself! He showed the world he was all talk, that he could barely play a lick, and they believed it! Imagine how much money that made Fats after that ordeal.

This man continues to hustle even after his death.

Lasttwo; you are right about Fats........i was priviledged to see him when i was a teenager back about 1963,,it was at a Montgomery ward store ...he was going around the country to promote their pool tables..he was very talented and entertaining....i guess there are those in life that al they enjoy doing is to smear a person...but as far as i know the Fat Man never hurt anyone.........

 

[jay helfert]

Fats

I knew Fats quite well and he was a GREAT hustler. And yes, he could play!
His best games were One Pocket (at one time he was one of the best in the country), Three Cushions and Banks.
I saw Fats hustle and beat Richie Florence (getting 9-7, 8-7) during Richie's prime. He also won a Three Cushion match with Eddie Robin when Eddie was one of the best in the U.S. (I was there to see it in Detroit).
Mosconi didn't like him because Fats had hustled him out of money in their younger days. He got Willie to play him "bank every other ball" and Fats robbed him.
Fats was not the best player at any game, usually a ball below the top players, but he was the best hustler and did beat the best players for the cash. In New York he was known as "Triple Smart Fats", for good reason.
Bottom line, Fats was a player (A- might be correct) and a winner.
And without doubt, he put pool on the map in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

 

[cardiac kid]

I knew Fats quite well and he was a GREAT hustler. And yes, he could play!....Fats was not the best player at any game, usually a ball below the top players, but he was the best hustler and did beat the best players for the cash. In New York he was known as "Triple Smart Fats", for good reason. Bottom line, Fats was a player (A- might be correct) and a winner. And without doubt, he put pool on the map in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Hi Jay,

After driving from Reno to Vegas with "Fast Eddie", he pretty much said the same things. Ronnie had a slightly higher rating for "Fats" but who's counting. One subject you might help with is pushing Ronnie to put down on paper his memoirs. We are loosing one great after another. Soon we'll only have the stories about them. Not THEIR stories! Although I never met him, thanks for the memories Fats.

 

[Fliedout]

Slow Play

I watched both Basavich and Archer play last night at Valley Forge. Archer generally took much longer between shots than Basavich. At one point, Archer took what I'll bet was an honest 5 minutes before jumping over two balls and making the object ball cross-corner--one of the best shots it has ever been my privilege to see in person. IMHO, the wait was worth it.

 

[AceHigh]

don't know if this has been said. but how would the kid match up against ronnie o'sullivan. I don't know if Ronnie plays 9 ball since he mostly plays snooker overseas, but I'd be willing to bet if he came over here that he could play damn well.

 

[vapoolplayer]

don't know if this has been said. but how would the kid match up against ronnie o'sullivan. I don't know if Ronnie plays 9 ball since he mostly plays snooker overseas, but I'd be willing to bet if he came over here that he could play damn well.

o'sullivan IMO would probably be somewhat like steve davis in 9 ball.........play at a pro speed, but i don't think he'd be as good as the top 9 ball players in the world. i'd say danny could do well playing him even, probably giving him a ball or so until ronnie really understood the game.

two totally different games, with two totally different strokes and strategies.

VAP

 

[onepocketchump]

I have often said that if the top snooker players would gamble for a month against the top pool players then they would become top pool players. Snooker players understand the dynamics and physical attributes needed to excel at any pocket billiard game. What they don't know are the nuances, the right moves. They could get hose by coming over and gambling hard core against the top players.

I have no doubt that Ronnie O'Sullivan could be one of the best one-pocket players ever if he decided to learn the game. Same goes for all the top snooker players. Conversely, if our top players had been grounded in snooker then I have little doubt that they would, in many cases, have become top snooker players. Now, though the difference in equipment and style is hard to overcome. Kelly Fisher told me that it is very difficult for her to conciously shoot the object ball into the cushion first. Efren does this routinely without thinking about it. Something he would never get away with in Snooker.

I don't think that Ronnie would dominate like Allison and Karen have done. This is because the standard of play among the men is much higher on average and they play as perfect a game of pool as can be played. Like all matchups between top players, Ronnie's would come down to who gets the rolls and who has the nerves. And that's the major difference in my opinion, Snooker is much less dependent on lucky rolls in each match. In 9-Ball, because of the lucky rolls, the player must really bring it when they get the opportunity. Any error can cost several games or the match where as with Snooker an error in the early going will not likely cause the better player to lose several frames. No one is going to run out the set in Snooker.

Get some $100,000 first places in there and you will see more snooker stars entering 9-ball tournaments.

John

 

[Kerry Impson]

Good post...but I think another reason the snooker players would not dominate is because of the most important part of 9-ball - the BREAK. I believe if O'Sullivan or any of the other male snooker players came here to play pool they would have a tough time adapting to the different stroke required for breaking, and therefore be at a disadvantage for a while (maybe forever) to those whose bread and butter has been 9-ball. Allison and Karen took a little while to adapt, and they still have nowhere near the best breaks on the women's tour - and the men break harder still.

 

[AceHigh]

Good post...but I think another reason the snooker players would not dominate is because of the most important part of 9-ball - the BREAK. I believe if O'Sullivan or any of the other male snooker players came here to play pool they would have a tough time adapting to the different stroke required for breaking, and therefore be at a disadvantage for a while (maybe forever) to those whose bread and butter has been 9-ball. Allison and Karen took a little while to adapt, and they still have nowhere near the best breaks on the women's tour - and the men break harder still.

I agree and I disagree with what you've said. Unfortunately for me, I never get to see Pro tournaments except on TV. Between the men's matches and the women's matches that I watch, there always seems to be more break-and-runs when the women play. Sure the men break harder. I mean, you're a pro player Kerry and I'm not, yet I probably break harder than you because of physical characteristics. It just seems the women, especially Allison, have such great control on their breaks, which allows more run outs after the break. The only male on TV that I've seen have such control on his break is Cory Duel.