BCA Hall Of SHAME: No Ronnie Allen?

[pro-player]

Does that mean in your book Pete Rose goes in the hall, if so, then do you not then have to put in the entire black sox team of 1919. You are saying sports should have no rules, no rules of conduct for players to live and play by that will inspire younger players to follow. Look what has happened to basketball, when they let the Rodmans run loose. Sir, without standards, you have what you have now, pool in back rooms and too many players are nothing but gamblers and druggies, that is what they teach to the upcoming freshman class. Pool is always copy the ones on top, do what they do.

In my book Pete Rose should go into the hall of fame. In all sports, the role models are the ones who do advertisements to sell products. If they were not role models, the advertisement companies would not want them endorsing anything. The hall of fame has nothing to do with role modeling, it has to do with ones ability, nothing more and nothing less.

George W Bush abused cocaine when he was younger. He is the President of the United States. Everyone who voted for him knew this, yet they elected him because they felt he would do a good job as the most powerful man in the world. Needless to say, he hasn't done a very good job, but he was still elected, despite his love for partying when he was younger.

Willie Mosconi is probably the most popular role model for most pool players. The guy was an amazing player, but alot of people know that he whined and complained alot. The players who want to play like just like him most likely wouldn't try to imitate his attitude.

personality =/= ability.

 

[Joseph Cues]

My question is, can a person who was bad for his own sport go to the hall of fame?

 

[jayz]

My question is, can a person who was bad for his own sport go to the hall of fame?

If the rules for enshrinement in the Hall of Fame for pool players stated that they weren’t allowed to gamble on pool matches then we wouldn’t have one because no one could meet that criterion. Again, as far as "business" games, I am sure there are few players (if any) in the Hall of Fame that have never lost a game intentionally hustling for a higher bet, a railbird's side-bet or a previous arrangement. Ronnie Allen had a few “behavioral” problems as did most of the Hall of Famers. I personally witnessed the great Willie Mosconi chastise a friend of mine on the sidelines for running 60+ balls in an exhibition match against him in Hawaii. He said in part, “This is my f#*king exhibition and you’re making me look bad”, and he was dead serious. Should he be in the hall of fame?

Ronnie Allen, in his prime, was a thing of beauty on the table playing one-pocket, one-handed or two handed. No one at the time kicked balls toward his pocket around the stack like him. His daring and innovative moves and charisma made him a crowd favorite and contributed to the advancement and popularity of the game. And in his heyday, he had a lot of heart.

At Jack and Jill’s in Arlington, Virginia (Weenie Beanie’s place), he wasn’t even allowed to play there until after a certain hour at night because too many people would quit playing just to watch him play. Winning pool tournaments should not be the only gauge to enter the Hall of Fame. In his heyday, most of the serious money was won in the back room or on the road rather than winning the tournament. His talent, skill level and the respect and the opinions of his peers for his ability and his contribution to the game should be considered.

Somehow we seem to be holding our potential Hall of Famers up to a higher standard. Compare the history and the character of pool players in the Hall of Fame to other Halls of Fame, particularly baseball and football. Does sexual assault, spousal abuse, murder and other alleged or committed felonies have anything to do with the talent that got them into their particular Halls? I think not.

 

[bruin70]

,,,,,,,. I personally witnessed the great Willie Mosconi chastise a friend of mine on the sidelines for running 60+ balls in an exhibition match against him in Hawaii. He said in part, “This is my f#*king exhibition and you’re making me look bad”, and he was dead serious. Should he be in the hall of fame?

I think not.

i have now heard this story popping up in several posts, two or three of which have stated it as from PERSONNAL experience,,,,including, i believe, that this was said when balukas supposedly ran balls on mosconi.
what's going on?,,,did everyone run balls on mosconi in exhibition, and did he say the same thing over and over again?

makes me think i should disregard everything that everyone says about anyone.

 

[bruin70]

Does that mean in your book Pete Rose goes in the hall, if so, then do you not then have to put in the entire black sox team of 1919. You are saying sports should have no rules, no rules of conduct for players to live and play by that will inspire younger players to follow. Look what has happened to basketball, when they let the Rodmans run loose. Sir, without standards, you have what you have now, pool in back rooms and too many players are nothing but gamblers and druggies, that is what they teach to the upcoming freshman class. Pool is always copy the ones on top, do what they do.

i think the answer to all this is that when they're asked about why mr. x was not inducted into whatever hall of fame, they should simply answer "cuz we didn't feel like it, and close the door on your way out."

 

[hemicudas]

i think the answer to all this is that when they're asked about why mr. x was not inducted into whatever hall of fame, they should simply answer "cuz we didn't feel like it, and close the door on your way out."

Right, keep the BCA voting members answerable to no one?

 

[manlyshot]

Where can one find out more information about the Hall of Fame for pool? Is there a website that gives more information about it? Is it a national hall of fame, or is it an international hall of fame? Is there an actual building that holds the Hall of Fame memorabilia, and where is it located? I have heard about the infamous Pool Hall of Fame, took it for granted, but now that we have had discussion on it, I am interested in finding out more.


ManlyShot

 

[hemicudas]

Manlyshot, do a Google search for Billiard Congress Of America Hall Of Fame. I think you will find all the info there.

 

[bruin70]

Right, keep the BCA voting members answerable to no one?

in this disorganized game where non-cooperation runs wild, it would be out of place if the board felt answerable to anyone, as if there were some structure to the game of pool.

 

[manlyshot]

Thanks for the link.

According to the website, these are the Hall of Fame voting members?

Tom Shaw (chair)
Conrad Burkman
J.R. Calvert
John Nusser
Mike Panozzo
Mike Shamos

Is this up to date? J.R. Calvert, the publisher of Inside Pool magazine, is definitely a knowledgeable voting member, having played pool himself before he created Inside Pool. He has been in the pool industry a long, long time and does have knowledge about the pool players.

But where is Leonard Bludworth's name? I had thought he was a voting member.

I wasn't aware that this month of October is Billiards Awareness Month.

ManlyShot

 

[manlyshot]

in this disorganized game where non-cooperation runs wild, it would be out of place if the board felt answerable to anyone, as if there were some structure to the game of pool.

You present a valid point, Bruin70, but at least the persons running this organization are not giving themselves seeds and byes in tournaments and barring and/or preventing pool players from competition who do not desire to sign UPA-mandated contracts, like Charlie Williams, the young self-proclaimed president of the UPA.

The BCA appears to be trying to promote pool in a forward direction, and they should be commended for their efforts in this regard (IMO).

Is this the organization that "invites" pool players to the invitational tournament held in Vegas every year? Who is on that committee?

Look at the names on the list for the Men's Professional and Men's Master. Ronnie Allen's name is not on either one of them.

I didn't know Buddy Hall's first name was "Cecil."

Great website and full of information.

ManlyShot

 

[Cactus Ed]

Where can one find out more information about the Hall of Fame for pool? Is there a website that gives more information about it? Is it a national hall of fame, or is it an international hall of fame? Is there an actual building that holds the Hall of Fame memorabilia, and where is it located? I have heard about the infamous Pool Hall of Fame, took it for granted, but now that we have had discussion on it, I am interested in finding out more.


ManlyShot

An actual building holding the memorabilia??

My guess is that it's a broom closet somewhere.

 

[jayz]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jayz
,,,,,,,. I personally witnessed the great Willie Mosconi chastise a friend of mine on the sidelines for running 60+ balls in an exhibition match against him in Hawaii. He said in part, “This is my f#*king exhibition and you’re making me look bad”, and he was dead serious. Should he be in the hall of fame?

I think not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i have now heard this story popping up in several posts, two or three of which have stated it as from PERSONNAL experience,,,,including, i believe, that this was said when balukas supposedly ran balls on mosconi.
what's going on?,,,did everyone run balls on mosconi in exhibition, and did he say the same thing over and over again?

makes me think i should disregard everything that everyone says about anyone.

The excerpts of my quote that you posted takes what I stated out of context. I have the utmost respect for Willie Mosconi’s ability and his contributions to the history and advancement of pool. His name, more than any other, is synonymous with the game itself, even to the uninitiated. He certainly deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It was his behavior I addressed.

About the incident back in the early 60’s in Hawaii: I was standing just a few feet away when he made that comment to a friend of mine who was playing in that exhibition. In years since, I have heard of other similar incidents and first hand accounts from respected sources about his behavior and attitude toward other pool players. Jimmy Caras also appeared several times in exhibitions in Hawaii. He did not carry the stature of the Mosconi name but was always a gentleman and a great player.

I don’t think many people would intentionally impugn the character of such a great player as Mosconi, but I bear witness to what happened. And Willie Mosconi was my idol.

 

[bob lightfoot]

Re: Re: BCA Hall Of SHAME: No Ronnie Allen?

Yes you are right, the BCA should now be called the hall of shame, because they used to induct only world champions and steller stars, now that they have ran out of those people, all they induct are pool hustlers who never won a world title. That is their shame. Why don't the pool hustlers just start their own hall of fame and they can induct people like allen and mccreedy, then there is no problem.

Billiard Congress of America quote:
"The purpose of the BCA Hall of Fame is to honor outstanding people who, through their competitive skills and dedication, have enriched our sport and industry."

Competitive skills
Does anyone doubt Ronnie Allen’s competitive heart and skills in his heyday?

Dedication
Does anyone doubt the dedication it took to attain his remarkable skills in so many facets of the game, the respect of so many of his peers and his longevity at the top?

Enriched our sport
Does anyone doubt that his innovative moves and aggressive style of one-pocket has contributed to the advancement of the game of one-pocket?

In his prime, Ronnie Allen always drew the most spectators to his matches at any one-pocket venue he played in. He was also one of the best “action” players everywhere he went. His style of play and entertaining manner, in matching up a game or while playing, always made him a crowd favorite. He was always "Da man!" anywhere he played.

In my opinion, Ronnie would be the favorite in one-pocket to beat 99 % of the players presently in the Hall of Fame, if everyone in the Hall of Fame were in their prime. Especially for the money. One-pocket is one of the oldest and most cerebral game in the colorful history of pool in this country. Does that qualify him?

Enough said.
http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/industry/hof/hof.shtml&cat=i

 

[manlyshot]

Re: Re: Re: BCA Hall Of SHAME: No Ronnie Allen?

In my opinion, Ronnie would be the favorite in one-pocket to beat 99 % of the players presently in the Hall of Fame, if everyone in the Hall of Fame were in their prime. Especially for the money. One-pocket is one of the oldest and most cerebral game in the colorful history of pool in this country. Does that qualify him?

It sure does qualify him in my opinion, Bob. Your post is exactly right on.

On the BCA website, there are two categories for Hall of Fame recognition: GREATEST PLAYER category and MERITORIOUS SERVICE category.

The GREATEST PLAYER category states one has to have been playing for at least 20 years and have won an international or national title. Ronnie's obviously been playing for more than 20 years, but I do not know firsthand what titles he holds.

The MERITORIOUS SERVICE category shall be reserved for those who have made lasting, memorable and important contributions to billiards. Ronnie Allen's one-pocket contributions are lasting and memorable.

On the www.bca-pool.com website, there are two categories for players: MEN'S PROFESSIONAL and MEN'S MASTER. Is there a reason why Ronnie Allen's name is not on either list? Hit PLAY tab at the top of the HOME page and then hit PLAYER LISTS tab. What an awful oversight!

BTW, Bob, did you place your vote on the poll at the beginning of this thread?


ManlyShot

 

[hemicudas]

Bob Lightfoot and Manlyshot, if the powers that be in the BCA can't understand what you guys just posted then their is no hope for any other deserving players entry into the HOF. Because it will be blatantly obvious that the BCA voting members are a political group who could care less about how much a player deserves to be inducted into the Hall Of Fame.

I guarantee you this. If you ask all of the Hall Of Fame members extant, who should be the next HOF inductee. The name that would appear most would be Ronnie Allen........$Bill