Be careful of counterfeits
- Thread starter carter1984
- Start date
So far as my previous two posts indicate, I still have not received my case. I would be willing to recieve a Predator BK2 in exchange for this fake Flowers case. But...as I am not in complete trust for obvious reasons...I will wait until I have the BK2 in my hands, have it looked at by a Predator Distributor to authenticate it's in fact a reak BK2 break cue, then I would ship the fake Flowers case COD back to tasaddicts. I think that would be reasonable for the winners. We need to have some upper hand in this mess to feel that we have indeed been vindicated. Any other winners approve? I think this would be an adequate resolve.
Last edited:
ah...
GOSH! It will never ends... Its more to Novel now with over 160 posts. lol
God Bless all !
GOSH! It will never ends... Its more to Novel now with over 160 posts. lol
God Bless all !
Hey Moderator for AZ...what is going on here? I have held off long enough with my posting of the following.
Yesterday his rep was all red, now today it is all green again. He has emailed me twice today, but it does not show he was on-line.
I also believe the winners of these fake cases will not be getting either a Joss or BK2 cue in exchange. This raffle I won is turning into something that leaves a very bad taste in my opionion of the raffles here. I was led to believe I was putting my money down on a raffle for one thing, and it turns out I win a knock off bad fake of what was to be something that I would have enjoyed and treasured for years. And to add insult to injury, I still have not recieved this case, so I cant even make an observation as to how bad this fake case is.
Obviously scammers can go about here with no justification of their deceitful actions or have to pay any consequences. I am truely dissapointed with the outcome so far.
Pretty sad state of affairs in my opinion. :angry::angry::angry::angry:
Yesterday his rep was all red, now today it is all green again. He has emailed me twice today, but it does not show he was on-line.
I also believe the winners of these fake cases will not be getting either a Joss or BK2 cue in exchange. This raffle I won is turning into something that leaves a very bad taste in my opionion of the raffles here. I was led to believe I was putting my money down on a raffle for one thing, and it turns out I win a knock off bad fake of what was to be something that I would have enjoyed and treasured for years. And to add insult to injury, I still have not recieved this case, so I cant even make an observation as to how bad this fake case is.
Obviously scammers can go about here with no justification of their deceitful actions or have to pay any consequences. I am truely dissapointed with the outcome so far.
Pretty sad state of affairs in my opinion. :angry::angry::angry::angry:
Mods can't do but so much. This is just a public forum. They can't enforce laws. They haven't banned him in hopes of the mess getting straightened out. Once he is banned it is end of story.
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
Predator has already confirmed with Mike/AZHousePro that the cases tasaddict is raffling are fakes. What makes anyone think the BK2s will be authentic???
Dam, so the JB case's weren't the only fake products TAS has been raffling off lol!!! All the predator crap he raffled off were fakes too. I don't even wanna calculate how much I donated to all his FAKE raffles lol. Looks like we're all SOL guys.
Ok, finally this case arrived early this morning, it took 12 days to get to me. It was very poorly packaged for shipping, three sheets of newspaper covered by thin brown paper then taped up. Absolutely no protection from airline handlers for sure. As a result there is a dent in the case on the back.
Now for a review of this case.
1: Very poor quality thin leather
2: Tooling looks very poor quality as well.
3: Some of the tooling on the pockets and body dont line up all that well.
4: There are either stains or marks on the case, so little or no quality control.
5: The color of the case body is not even, gets darker as you go down the length of the case, and not evenly darker, sort of in splotches.
5: Hardware is cheap
6: Interior tube padding material is very thin, with hard tube edges, definately not a JB plush interior. I'll never put my cues in this.
If I had seen higher quality pictures of these cases I would have never entered these raffles. Pretty deceptive on your part tasaddicts, you knew they were fake, yet you didnt care, and now we are stuck with something useless. I think I will give mine away to one of my team mates who doesnt have a very good case.
I am pretty much disgusted with the results of this raffle.
Headmuses. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
Now for a review of this case.
1: Very poor quality thin leather
2: Tooling looks very poor quality as well.
3: Some of the tooling on the pockets and body dont line up all that well.
4: There are either stains or marks on the case, so little or no quality control.
5: The color of the case body is not even, gets darker as you go down the length of the case, and not evenly darker, sort of in splotches.
5: Hardware is cheap
6: Interior tube padding material is very thin, with hard tube edges, definately not a JB plush interior. I'll never put my cues in this.
If I had seen higher quality pictures of these cases I would have never entered these raffles. Pretty deceptive on your part tasaddicts, you knew they were fake, yet you didnt care, and now we are stuck with something useless. I think I will give mine away to one of my team mates who doesnt have a very good case.
I am pretty much disgusted with the results of this raffle.
Headmuses. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
Please post Photos of the Case you got so people can see exactly what you are talking about.
Thanks.
CocoboloCowboy,
I dont own a camera at present. If I can borrow a camera I will...but I am pretty much done with this thread as well as pretty much done with tasaddicts. He knowingly raffled off fakes of not only J B Flowers cases, Predator cases and who knows what else fake raffles this guy has done...and all we see is false empty promises to make things right. Yet he retains green reps and no bans. As far as I am concerned, he isnt worth our time. Just another cheat and con-man in the world of pool.
Flame away tasaddicts...but I think most in here feel the same as I do.
Well this topic is certainly interesting isn't it?
It's gone from burning Sterling Gaming at the stake for trying to protect a brand they own and have invested a lot of effort in to realizing that "Jason" Lee is a con-artist lying thief who took advantage of all you good people for months while RIPPING OFF me, Sterling, Predator and probably Joss as well.
Y'all can read my thoughts on the whole thing at my blog, no need to repeat myself here.
www.jbcases.com/caseblog
I think it's pretty clear to all of you that Jason Lee is not going to refund your money. He is not going to send you trinkets at a postage cost of $5-10 per package. Your only hope is to file your disputes with PayPal and get what you can get.
I have some definite ideas about how you as a community can set up these raffles to protect yourselves from situations like this. The question is will you do it or are you just like the pool players who endlessly cry about getting screwed by promoters yet are too lazy to to stand up for themselves.
If you want to DO something about this particular guy then those of you who have his information can file police reports. He committed many actual real CRIMES. Wire Fraud, Counterfeiting, IP Theft, Illegal Gambling, etc..... So do something, file a police report, find out who you can send a copy of that report to in Singapore. In Singapore they don't have much tolerance for crime and things that tarnish the reputation of Singapore. So file your local reports, get copies and make your voice heard to the police there. Maybe nothing will happen but then again maybe something will and this rotten thief will get some kind of punishment.
As for those who mistakenly think that I deserve this somehow for using the brand J.Flowers you should understand that it doesn't matter what brand is on the cases, theft is theft.
Lenny Marshal, you made a shitty comment about how you want to come over here in China and order up some J.Flowers copies. How about I order you up a 1000 copies of Power One Pocket while you are at it and then tell everyone on here where they can buy them for $1 each? If you think that this is so funny and it's such a joke.
Monstermash, how does it look now that your AZ "powerseller" has indeed been outed as a thief? You were so vocal about how Sterling was the bad guy here for warning people about these cases and what do you have to say now? Yeah, that's what I thought.
I have come out stronger than ever. We make great cases and are proud to put our brand on them. All of you who bought raffle tickets for the "J.Flowers" cases did so in the full belief that you were going to get a case that has rightfully EARNED a solid reputation for protection and quality. You didn't enter the raffles because you are in love with Tasaddicts. You got in because you wanted a shot at a great product.
You got played. But I have to apologize to all of you as well.
Sincerely and with deep regret. Because I have been so caught up in my own "issues" with certain people on this forum I neglected my JOB which is to keep up with what cases are being sold on this forum and make sure that my products are presented with correct information. Had I not shirked my duty then I would have caught these counterfeits early on and prevented this guy from selling more than one or two cases.
So I am very sorry about that and it won't happen again. I hope all of you who were ripped off can get some sort of satisfaction.
To those of you who have been very helpful to me during the time I could not post I am grateful to you and in your debt.
Best to all of you,
John Barton
It's gone from burning Sterling Gaming at the stake for trying to protect a brand they own and have invested a lot of effort in to realizing that "Jason" Lee is a con-artist lying thief who took advantage of all you good people for months while RIPPING OFF me, Sterling, Predator and probably Joss as well.
Y'all can read my thoughts on the whole thing at my blog, no need to repeat myself here.
www.jbcases.com/caseblog
I think it's pretty clear to all of you that Jason Lee is not going to refund your money. He is not going to send you trinkets at a postage cost of $5-10 per package. Your only hope is to file your disputes with PayPal and get what you can get.
I have some definite ideas about how you as a community can set up these raffles to protect yourselves from situations like this. The question is will you do it or are you just like the pool players who endlessly cry about getting screwed by promoters yet are too lazy to to stand up for themselves.
If you want to DO something about this particular guy then those of you who have his information can file police reports. He committed many actual real CRIMES. Wire Fraud, Counterfeiting, IP Theft, Illegal Gambling, etc..... So do something, file a police report, find out who you can send a copy of that report to in Singapore. In Singapore they don't have much tolerance for crime and things that tarnish the reputation of Singapore. So file your local reports, get copies and make your voice heard to the police there. Maybe nothing will happen but then again maybe something will and this rotten thief will get some kind of punishment.
As for those who mistakenly think that I deserve this somehow for using the brand J.Flowers you should understand that it doesn't matter what brand is on the cases, theft is theft.
Lenny Marshal, you made a shitty comment about how you want to come over here in China and order up some J.Flowers copies. How about I order you up a 1000 copies of Power One Pocket while you are at it and then tell everyone on here where they can buy them for $1 each? If you think that this is so funny and it's such a joke.
Monstermash, how does it look now that your AZ "powerseller" has indeed been outed as a thief? You were so vocal about how Sterling was the bad guy here for warning people about these cases and what do you have to say now? Yeah, that's what I thought.
I have come out stronger than ever. We make great cases and are proud to put our brand on them. All of you who bought raffle tickets for the "J.Flowers" cases did so in the full belief that you were going to get a case that has rightfully EARNED a solid reputation for protection and quality. You didn't enter the raffles because you are in love with Tasaddicts. You got in because you wanted a shot at a great product.
You got played. But I have to apologize to all of you as well.
Sincerely and with deep regret. Because I have been so caught up in my own "issues" with certain people on this forum I neglected my JOB which is to keep up with what cases are being sold on this forum and make sure that my products are presented with correct information. Had I not shirked my duty then I would have caught these counterfeits early on and prevented this guy from selling more than one or two cases.
So I am very sorry about that and it won't happen again. I hope all of you who were ripped off can get some sort of satisfaction.
To those of you who have been very helpful to me during the time I could not post I am grateful to you and in your debt.
Best to all of you,
John Barton
Rep to you JB.
As being one of the winners of these counterfeits, can you tell me how to get the crappy interior out and put in yours? Other than the shitty interior and crappy dye job on the case I won, its not horrible.
As being one of the winners of these counterfeits, can you tell me how to get the crappy interior out and put in yours? Other than the shitty interior and crappy dye job on the case I won, its not horrible.
Amen could not have been said better.
I am quoting this so you can't edit it any further.
Now let's the discuss your ignorance on the subject of intellectual property and what is a knockoff and a counterfeit.
To answer your last question first Jay Flowers himself gave me permission to make cases like his. Not that I ever needed it at any time. When I met him at one of the Vegas shows I expressed a desire to make a similar case someday and he said it was fine with him.
Jay is dead however so you can't go ask him if what I am saying is true. So either you can think of me as a liar or you can believe me. Doesn't matter to me because I know what we talked about.
So then IF their were any copyrights on the J.EF Q Cases THEN I would need to go to someone who owned those copyrights if I wanted to copy any copyrighted designs.
But there are no copyrighted designs on any J.EF Q Cases. Copyright protection does not apply to utilitarian items.
But even if it did the J.Flowers TRIBUTE cases I designed are very different from the original cases built by Nora Van Horn for Jay Flowers and sold under the brand name J. EF Q Cases.
Perhaps pictures would help you;
This is the "J.Flowers" brand name - Owned by Sterling Gaming, John Barton and Jiasen.
This is the J.EF Q Cases brand name which was in use by Jay Flowers.
This is an original J.EF Q Case built by Nora Van Horn
This is my version of this particular tooling arrangement:
I don't know about you but to me it would be very difficult to think that the two cases were made by the same maker under the same brand. What I make are not copies of Jay Flowers' cases. They are originals which use SOME elements of the tooling designs and SOME elements of the construction, i.e. the box pockets to form a case that takes its ROOTS from the cases Nora Van Horn built for Jay Flowers.
Let's do another one - I own this J.EF Q Case pictured below;
Here it is side by side with my "version" of it.
Does anyone else here consider my case to be a copy of the original? Does anyone else still think that the J.Flowers brand cases are knockoffs of the orginal J.EF Q Cases? Or that they are "fake".
This nonsense needs to stop or anyone who calls my cases copies and fakes needs to start condemning every cue maker who puts points and diamonds into their cues. That means no butterfly points, no pointy points, no diamonds, no dots, no dash rings, no rings, etc.... because SOMEONE else did all those elements first.
Anyway, in a world where people honestly think it's possible for a half-black man to become President of the USA without being a natural born citizen I should not be surprised that some people can't see the differences in cue cases. So I will end this rant with the knowledge that everyone has their own view. Here is mine to counter yours.
No, Someone is selling a similar case to ours and putting our brand name on it. This counterfeit case is not a copy of an extinct case. It is a knockoff of an existing brand of cases.
No. We are selling a case that has some elements of a style of case that has been around since the early 80s. I pay tribute to the acknowledged founder of this style Jay Flowers through the use of some of the design elements and the creation of a brand "J.Flowers". You know, like say Franklin Press, who publishes books and planners based around time management principles established by Ben Franklin. Our cases are not copies of J.EF Cases.
Again you are confused. Calling something a "tribute" does not avoid infringement. Any copy of trademarked goods is infringement no matter how it's described. You are however mistaken if you think that any J.FLowers brand case is a copy of any case ever made and sold under the brand J.EF Q Cases. If you can find any case I have ever made which a copy of any case ever sold by Jay Flowers then show us all.
Here is a collection of pictures of the J.EF Cases I have gathered from all over the web. Please, feel free to prove your point, after all pictures are worth more than words.
http://jbcases.com/gallery/index.php?g2_itemId=10042
And here you can find a lot of the J.Flowers brand cases we have made to date: www.jbcases.com/jflowers.html
What is a long standing concept? Again you are clearly confused and ignorant of how intellectual property actually works. The issue here is over a BRAND name. You know like Simonis. I couldn't go buy some crappy cloth and put the Simonis BRAND on it and sell it as if it were real Simonis. Nor could I call it a Simonis tribute and get away with it.
I am not trying to prevent competition. Brands exist to PROTECT the consumer not to prevent competition. They exist to let the consumer know that the consumer can expect a certain level of quality and performance when they see a BRAND on a product. When you see a car with a Mercedes logo on it then you don't expect it to perform like a Ford Pinto. Is that clear enough for you or do I need to go on?
The real question is what part did you NOT miss? Your whole statement is based on ignorance of the law, ignorance of the actual products in question and obvious bias.
Forgetting that the someone else turned out to be a rotten thief rather than poor victim duped into buying counterfeit products for resale, the premise of this thread was to WARN consumers that the cases being sold by said person are not authentic and as such not under warranty by the company whose brand name was illegally applied to them.
So, to break this down in very simple terms.
You buy a case from Joe which has the J.Flowers brand on it. Joe doesn't tell you it's a fake and you paid MORE than the regular retail for the case.
The case breaks or you are otherwise unhappy with it.
Who do you go to to get it fixed or replaced?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
. crickets chirping.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
That's right. You send me or Sterling Gaming an email complaining about the case and expect us to take care of it because our BRAND is on it.
You don't call Joe. You call us.
That is the issue.
Got it?