Becoming a professional

macguy said:
How many of them make any money? Like you can count them on your fingers.
Which actually proves the point even more... Women do get more sponsorships due to marketability... with this being the case, if the majority of the women still aren't making money, how much money does that leave for the male players? Even less....
 
mapman72 said:
I hope I get some feedback from the pros on this one. I am at the point in my life where my pool game is very good, but I just can't get over the hump and beat the pros consistently. I play in the regional tour events, and can upset a pro every now and again, but I'm more likely to lose both matches to professional caliber players and just make it into the money rounds and break even or make a little cash. One thing I notice after I play well and lose to McCready or Davis 7-5 or 9-7 is that these guys don't work other than playing pool. Right now, I have a decent career and make pretty good money. Although I would love to try to become professional and play pool for a living, I know I would have to take my lumps for a while until I could make enough money to survive. So my question is: Do I have to totally give up my career and focus all my attention on my pool game to take a chance at turning pro and making living playing pool? or, Can I continue to work a regular job and try to increase my practice time and expect to be able to improve to the level to compete with the professionals that play pool every day of the week? I wanted the feedback from the pros because I'm sure they were all faced with this dilemna at one point or another. When do you know when it's time to drop the "traditional" lifestyle and jump into professional pool? and, can you do it halfway or you just have to take the plunge? Oh, by the way, I'm hating my job lately.

Please help :confused: :confused: :confused:


The interesting thing about pro sports is most all pros hate what they do. I have known quite a few pro football players and lots of pool players and just as your dream is to play pro pool, theirs is the day they don't have to play any more. Pro sports is the worst, just a means to an end and in the case of pool, not even that, just a miserable existence at best. Reminds me of guys who think they want to open a pool room because they like to play pool, then they find it is just a headache riddled business that usually destroys any love they ever had for the game. You find playing pool fun but you would not find trying to make a living at it much fun.
 
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bruin70 said:
you won't be great at anything by giving it a half-assed try. the pros spend THEIR LIFE perfecting their game.
That was something that came to my mind when I read where he said "wanted the feedback from the pros because I'm sure they were all faced with this dilemna at one point or another. When do you know when it's time to drop the "traditional" lifestyle and jump into professional pool?" The pro's that I know have done this their whole life. I don't know all of them but out of the ones that I do know... not many have had jobs, or at least not meaningful jobs w/benefits, & decent pay, etc.
 
mapman72 said:
... Right now, I have a decent career and make pretty good money. Although I would love to try to become professional and play pool for a living, I know I would have to take my lumps for a while until I could make enough money to survive. ..
Compare your salary and benefits now to winnings listed in one of the pool mags or online on AZB. Gabe Owen plays pretty sporty. His 2004 total winnings were $40,000. or so. Can you beat him consistently? Of course, this doesn't factor in "following your dream" or what you might win (or lose) on the side.

A friend of mine lived just off his pool winnings in this area for four or five years. He did a lot of scuffling and shuffling. He had a big advantage in that he looked horrible at the table (Lassiter looked pretty bad, too). I saw him win about $600 in one night at a bar between 10PM and 7AM at $10 and $20 nine ball. Is that sort of thing part of your plan to pay the rent? I think it takes a whole different set of abilities than tournament play.

Here is a way you can decide for yourself whether to take the plunge. Find a tough table in a quiet location. Play against the ghost at nine ball. See what your percentage is now, and set your goal for maybe half as many failed racks. For three months or so, play the ghost for an hour every night and then work on your problem shots for an hour. At the end of three months, make your decision.
 
Turning pro's extremely difficult. An earlier poster got it right when he asked you to be completely honest with your own abilities. You said you currently play in a regional tour. The key word here is 'regional'. Instead of comparing yourself to regional pros, you should try to compare yourself to the biggest names in pro pool. If you want to make any decent living playing tournaments, you would probably have to play a lot of big tournaments will an international field. If you haven't competed in the US Open yet, why not give that a shot and see how you stack up against the pros. Better yet, if you're brave enough, go challenge one of those qualifier events for the World Pool Championships. If you're good enough to make it past the qualifying events, you're a very good player.
 
mapman72 said:
I play in the regional tour events, and can upset a pro every now and again, but I'm more likely to lose both matches to professional caliber players and just make it into the money rounds and break even or make a little cash.
Umm...spend the $500 and play in the open. That should tell you right there. JMHO.
 
Ideally

Seems like the age-old struggle between fantasy and reality........

Would you rather try to make a living at something you think you'd like/love, that has little prospect of decent financial rewards, or work at a job you dislike/hate that made you a decent sum of money plus benefits? So many people in this country/world have no choice as to how they make their living; most people, I guess, just do the best they can.........I used to fantasize about becoming a professional gambler (playing poker) and not have to work for a living.....but I discovered that I was a lousy gambler and not-so-hot at poker......
my perspective on this would be....would you really be happier making less money, (maybe a lot less) in the pursuit of this dream? As much as I would like to do other things, in spite of the adage "money isn't everything"....I do appreciate the things that money enables me to do and I know it's no fun being poor....
 
RichardCranium said:
Always glad to make you laugh...but I think you missed my point...My point was only to compare yourself with the best.... That should be any "pros" measure of thier own level of game and strenghts and weaknesses..... /QUOTE]

Oh, sorry, I had my mind reading skills turned off when I read your original post.

Wayne
 
wayne said:
RichardCranium said:
Always glad to make you laugh...but I think you missed my point...My point was only to compare yourself with the best.... That should be any "pros" measure of thier own level of game and strenghts and weaknesses..... /QUOTE]

Oh, sorry, I had my mind reading skills turned off when I read your original post.

Wayne


nothing to do with mind reading skills, just simple reading skills.
 
AceHigh said:
nothing to do with mind reading skills, just simple reading skills.

According to his original post and I quote "How would you match up with Earl or Efrin???? for all the money in your pocket????
If you can HONESTLY say you can beat them...quit your job and turn pro..."

Simple reading skills say that if you can HONESTLY say you can beat Earl or Efren quit your job and turn pro. Mind reading skills turned on interprets this to mean what the poster was thinking when he posted this because what it says is ridiculous.

Wayne
 
macguy said:
The interesting thing about pro sports is most all pros hate what they do. I have known quite a few pro footballs and lots of pool players and just as your dream is to play pro pool, theirs is the day they don't have to play any more. Pro sports is the worst, just a means to an end and in the case of pool, not even that, just a miserable existence at best. Reminds me of guys who think they want to open a pool room because they like to play pool, then they find it is just a headache riddled business that usually destroys any love they ever had for the game. You find playing pool fun but you would not find trying to make a living at it much fun.

I can't agree - John McEnroe said that there was nothing in the world better than being a professional athlete at the top of his game. I say go for it - the worst that can happen is that you'll fail miserably - the best is that you'll become rich and successful (hey you never know). The guarantee is that you'll have a lot of fun and know for sure at the end what you could acomplish in the game.
 
bgb said:
I can't agree - John McEnroe said that there was nothing in the world better than being a professional athlete at the top of his game. I say go for it - the worst that can happen is that you'll fail miserably - the best is that you'll become rich and successful (hey you never know). The guarantee is that you'll have a lot of fun and know for sure at the end what you could acomplish in the game.


He was speaking of himself, an athlete ontop of his game. I don't know if he'd say that about an aspiring amateur in a poor-paying sport. There are a ton of risks.
 
mapman72 said:
I hope I get some feedback from the pros on this one. I am at the point in my life where my pool game is very good, but I just can't get over the hump and beat the pros consistently. I play in the regional tour events, and can upset a pro every now and again, but I'm more likely to lose both matches to professional caliber players and just make it into the money rounds and break even or make a little cash....

Welcome to American pool, Mapman72. While I am not a pro, I can offer some feedback having traveled the tournament trail for some time now.

Since you are a working fellow, it is most likely near impossible to attend 3- to 7-day events. The regional tournament trail is the best bang for the buck because you don't have to quit your day job. However, when the regional event requires travel and lodging, this can cut into profits realized after expenses. Third place, as an example, on some regional events in my immediate area pay out 300-plus bucks. If I had to travel and pay for lodging, I'd be stuck unless I came in first or second place attending a weekend event. :o

You mention Mike Davis in your post. Ask Mike next time you see him about what his feelings were about playing pool full time before he came in second place at last year's World Summit of Pool. He was getting read to high-tail it down to Florida and get a 9-to-5 job helping out to repair the hurricane damage because he was busted. This is a reality for many a player on the tournament trail, running out of funds to keep up with the pack. :(

One year at the Trump Marina 10-Ball Challenge in Atlantic City, while most participants lodged at the venue site at the Trump Marina, thrifty Mike Davis stayed down the street at a $29.95-per-night hotel room to fray off expenses, and the place had hardly any heat in the freezing winter and only three stations that worked on the TV, and I cannot imagine the bug activity in the room when the lights went out. :eek:

If you like to go shopping for new clothes, this is a luxury for some American pool players. Many of the "regulars" on the tournament trail shop at thrift shops because it is all they can afford. It is not unusual for players to share a room with another to save monies, many times a couple of them sleeping on the floor and, in some instances, they will stay up all night long and sleep in their car to save monies. How well do you think you will compete in a high-profile event after sleeping on the floor or in a car?

MANY professional-caliber players who frequent the tournament trail live with their parents, a girlfriend or wife, or a family member, even the sponsored ones. Believe me when I tell you if they had to pay their own freight, i.e., rent/mortgage, utility bills, auto expenses to include car insurance, and phone charges, they would not be able to keep up with their daily living expenses and financial obligations.

If a pool player earns $40,000 annually playing in competitive events, I can assure you that the expenses could eat up that 40-dime profit quite easily. Many times a pool player is stuck $1,500 to $2,500 before they hit the first ball. With current tournament payouts being what they are, you'd have to, again, come in third place in some instances to just break even.

mapman72 said:
One thing I notice after I play well and lose to McCready or Davis 7-5 or 9-7 is that these guys don't work other than playing pool.
That's a fact. I can remember the day when Mike Davis would never gamble, but he soon changed his train of thought after realizing the income potential playing competitive pool on the tournament trail. Most, not all, pool players in America do gamble out of necessity. It's a sad fact, but quite true.

There have been MANY instances when I have come up winner not because of the tournament income, but because of the gambling. At Turning Stone Casino earlier this year, McCready had a nice run on the craps table to the tune of 4 or 5 dimes in our pockets. He didn't cash in the pool tournament.

Personally, every time I attend a pool tournament, I look at it as a pool vacation, not as a means of income.

mapman72 said:
Right now, I have a decent career and make pretty good money. Although I would love to try to become professional and play pool for a living, I know I would have to take my lumps for a while until I could make enough money to survive. So my question is: Do I have to totally give up my career and focus all my attention on my pool game to take a chance at turning pro and making living playing pool? or, Can I continue to work a regular job and try to increase my practice time and expect to be able to improve to the level to compete with the professionals that play pool every day of the week? I wanted the feedback from the pros because I'm sure they were all faced with this dilemna at one point or another. When do you know when it's time to drop the "traditional" lifestyle and jump into professional pool? and, can you do it halfway or you just have to take the plunge? Oh, by the way, I'm hating my job lately....

JAM's advice to Mapman72 is to not quit your day job unless you are willing to sacrifice the amenities that you currently enjoy in your daily lifestyle.

If you have financial support to pursue your dream, then, by all means, go for it, but I can tell you now that if you are self-supporting, which I think you are, there may be a day when you kick yourself in the butt for quitting a job which provides a guaranteed income.

It is very sad that many champions of American pool do not enjoy a lucrative income, but the ones who hang in there do so because of their deep passion for the game/sport and are willing to live a lifestyle that is fraught with occupational hazards and unappealling living conditions. Why do they do it? I do not know. Personally, I enjoy having a roof over my head and a place to hang my hat every single day, and I would never sacrifice my well-being and financial security for the life of an American pool player.

Having said all of the above, if you are dead serious and want to jump on in the mix, pay the 100 bucks and join the men's governing body of professional pool. It will cost you a dime or two for each week-long event.

Without financial backup to support the lifestyle of an American pro, you may end up on skid row. If you think you have got what it takes to elevate your game to the next level, if you're that close to beating the name-brand players -- and I think you are -- then it may be worth the sacrifice, but make no mistake about it, life as you know it today will most definitely change. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM
 
JAM said:
Welcome to American pool, Mapman72. While I am not a pro, I can offer some feedback having traveled the tournament trail for some time now.

Since you are a working fellow, it is most likely near impossible to attend 3- to 7-day events. The regional tournament trail is the best bang for the buck because you don't have to quit your day job. However, when the regional event requires travel and lodging, this can cut into profits realized after expenses. Third place, as an example, on some regional events in my immediate area pay out 300-plus bucks. If I had to travel and pay for lodging, I'd be stuck unless I came in first or second place attending a weekend event. :o

You mention Mike Davis in your post. Ask Mike next time you see him about what his feelings were about playing pool full time before he came in second place at last year's World Summit of Pool. He was getting read to high-tail it down to Florida and get a 9-to-5 job helping out to repair the hurricane damage because he was busted. This is a reality for many a player on the tournament trail, running out of funds to keep up with the pack. :(

One year at the Trump Marina 10-Ball Challenge in Atlantic City, while most participants lodged at the venue site at the Trump Marina, thrifty Mike Davis stayed down the street at a $29.95-per-night hotel room to fray off expenses, and the place had hardly any heat in the freezing winter and only three stations that worked on the TV, and I cannot imagine the bug activity in the room when the lights went out. :eek:

If you like to go shopping for new clothes, this is a luxury for some American pool players. Many of the "regulars" on the tournament trail shop at thrift shops because it is all they can afford. It is not unusual for players to share a room with another to save monies, many times a couple of them sleeping on the floor and, in some instances, they will stay up all night long and sleep in their car to save monies. How well do you think you will compete in a high-profile event after sleeping on the floor or in a car?

MANY professional-caliber players who frequent the tournament trail live with their parents, a girlfriend or wife, or a family member, even the sponsored ones. Believe me when I tell you if they had to pay their own freight, i.e., rent/mortgage, utility bills, auto expenses to include car insurance, and phone charges, they would not be able to keep up with their daily living expenses and financial obligations.

If a pool player earns $40,000 annually playing in competitive events, I can assure you that the expenses could eat up that 40-dime profit quite easily. Many times a pool player is stuck $1,500 to $2,500 before they hit the first ball. With current tournament payouts being what they are, you'd have to, again, come in third place in some instances to just break even.


That's a fact. I can remember the day when Mike Davis would never gamble, but he soon changed his train of thought after realizing the income potential playing competitive pool on the tournament trail. Most, not all, pool players in America do gamble out of necessity. It's a sad fact, but quite true.

There have been MANY instances when I have come up winner not because of the tournament income, but because of the gambling. At Turning Stone Casino earlier this year, McCready had a nice run on the craps table to the tune of 4 or 5 dimes in our pockets. He didn't cash in the pool tournament.

Personally, every time I attend a pool tournament, I look at it as a pool vacation, not as a means of income.



JAM's advice to Mapman72 is to not quit your day job unless you are willing to sacrifice the amenities that you currently enjoy in your daily lifestyle.

If you have financial support to pursue your dream, then, by all means, go for it, but I can tell you now that if you are self-supporting, which I think you are, there may be a day when you kick yourself in the butt for quitting a job which provides a guaranteed income.

It is very sad that many champions of American pool do not enjoy a lucrative income, but the ones who hang in there do so because of their deep passion for the game/sport and are willing to live a lifestyle that is fraught with occupational hazards and unappealling living conditions. Why do they do it? I do not know. Personally, I enjoy having a roof over my head and a place to hang my hat every single day, and I would never sacrifice my well-being and financial security for the life of an American pool player.

Having said all of the above, if you are dead serious and want to jump on in the mix, pay the 100 bucks and join the men's governing body of professional pool. It will cost you a dime or two for each week-long event.

Without financial backup to support the lifestyle of an American pro, you may end up on skid row. If you think you have got what it takes to elevate your game to the next level, if you're that close to beating the name-brand players -- and I think you are -- then it may be worth the sacrifice, but make no mistake about it, life as you know it today will most definitely change. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

HI Jennie,

once again you hit the nail right on the head! This is the perfect description of the true state of mens professional pool.

Markus
 
This is an interesting Thread which I may be able to offer some "Live" info on!

Quick history, I was one of the first kids in UK to do a snooker training scheme when I left school. After a year or so I gave it up to get a degree as I wondered if I would ever go back to school if I didn't make it 5 years down the line. The deal was that when I finished and had a degree I would move to America and play pro pool for a couple of years. Well I met a women and started work and before I knew it it had been almost 10 years since I last played seriously! I was in Australia and not to happy so I thought sod it I'm off to play pool for 6-12 months and I quit my job. (At one point I was a company director earning around US$1500 a week)

The thing what I did was what some have suggested here, I went and played the best (Efren) to see how good the best was and to try and gauge whether my best could compete with that (not how I was playing at the time but the level I knew I could play at if I practised for 6 months). I didn't want or expect to win money (I wouldn't have taken it believe it or not if I had beat him) but what I saw inspired me to poke a little further into the world of pool.

Anyway,after a few months of half assed practice to be honest and too much pertying I reached the states. I played in a few tournaments and did ok. I used the money I won to extend my trip and it is still going. BUT even though I have probably won more than 8k in the last couple of months my expenses have eaten up most of this (although you could certainly do it a LOT LOT cheaper than what I am, especially if you stayed in US). I thought sod it and flew to Asia to try and Qualify for WPC but didn't make it. However the trip was worth it and I learnt a lot again from watching the matches. I went to Korea and was fortunate enough to play on TV, a small goal of mine. This has fuelled the fires again and I am now considering playing in even more events right up until DCC in January next year. Yes you can win money if you do what Marlon did (over 30k in two weeks) quick trip in and out and beat the best. Hell I could have gone home with the same money I went to the states with (about 4k) after sacramento and had the whole two month trip for free - but I wanted to poke a little deeper still. But then I'm not doinf this for cash, never did though thats what I would never take a spot of anyone. Its about seeing how well you can do and finding out before its too late. Too many people get old and spend their lives boring their grand kids shitless saying "I could have been....bla bla :-)"

SJM hit on a few solid points which I am looking into, I don't think living your life is good for your health or mind. You live in hotels, eat crap food, party hard (well some do) and it generally wears you down. Ive been trying to get rid of a really bad cough for over three months lol, my knick name has become "bird flu" lol! I think the best way to approach pool is to do what others have suggested, study the pool calendar and try to play 2-3 trips per year playing as many tournaments as you can that are grouped together in the same area. SOme are just not good value to get your expenses back but they might be great comps still. Also if you could have some sort of business or even do contracting then maybe this will help you take the time off when you please. You also have to be weary ofthe time you take off for the time when you go back to work as SJM said.

Hope this helps

PS
I've had the time of my life so far and wish I had done this 5 years ago!

:D
 
Great points

JAM said:
Welcome to American pool, Mapman72. While I am not a pro, I can offer some feedback having traveled the tournament trail for some time now.
...Stuff deleted...
room with another to save monies, many times a couple of them sleeping on the floor and, in some instances, they will stay up all night long and sleep in their car to save monies. How well do you think you will compete in a high-profile event after sleeping on the floor or in a car?
...Stuff Deleted...

JAM

JAM made some good points in her post. If you want to do it, do it, but I want to share some perspective that helped me decide to keep on working.

I went to a tourney once with two touring pros and a friend who mostly played the calcutta. One of the two was ranked in the top 5 in the world for 10 years, the other was fresh off a professional victory. I had a full time job and the friend and I split a room, the two pros also were going to split a room. They went 1-2 in the tourney we traveled to and won about $3500 total between them + calcutta. They elected to sleep on the floor in our room rather than get their own room that night to save $40 total. These guys had been around and knew they needed every penny to get them to the next tournament.

I remember at that point thinking that as much as I loved pool, if I wanted to make it, I would end up sleeping on the floor to save $20.

Cheers,
Regas
 
This is getting to be a pretty interesting discussion.

There are a few more things to think about.

1st is your age. Are you in the 20s? early 30s? 40s? If you're in the 20s or early 30s, you don't have as much to lose if you try to play pro for a couple of years. The older you are, the more you stand to lose, espeically if you have a good job. Older also means more responsibilities.

2nd is the type of job you're at and the kinds of work skills you have to make a living. If you're a professional with a very marketable skill, such as a professional accountant or a certified mechanic, you can always find work. So you can afford to take an year or 2 off, see how you do on the pro scene, then decide if it is worth the sacrifice.
 
I think there are other factors that need to be considered. Success can be had, if you approach it as a business. First off, what do you look like? I mean, are you marketable? Are you either very good looking i.e. Jennifer Barretta or very quirky i.e. Danny Basivich? In any sport the money is not only made in tournaments, a huge part is sponsorship.
I also think you need to work with a coach, you need to put a huge effort into improving your game and testing your skil..l (as in the upcoming Big Apple and US Open events)...if you have money saved, I'd say give it a go...perhaps your job would be willing to workout a part time deal, and let you try this, maybe they would even sponsor you?
I believe it is better to look back and see a life fully led. Yet, you need to have realistic expectations, there is nothing certain and it is a risk. But that does not mean it is not worth it, only you can decide that.
If your unencumbered (no wife, no children) then now may be the time....
 
There is a lot to be said on the subject but without a full time tour it is going to be hard to be a pro. A good friend of mine moved to Florida to play on that tour after the Camel and PBT broke up. Being a strong regional tour player/winner is the first step I think. Look at Shawn Putnam, he owned the Viking tour for 2 years or so then started snapping off UPA events. I'd concentrate on winning the Hampton Ridge, Joss and other tournaments until you are cashing every week. Then save that money for a week at the Open or DCC. Shawn would be the model I'd use to map out a career path.

Just my thoughts
Good luck
Andy
 
I think Richard Cranium nailed it for you.

What kind of pro do you want to be? A two and out pro? A two and one pro? A two and two pro? Or do you want to be one that has a chance to win any tournament you enter?

Looks like you are suffering from the green grass syndrome. You are feeling sorry for yourself and want to go out and play.

If all you can do is come close to beating Keith then you have a better chance of becoming the President of the company you work for now than becoming a top pro. I suggest you apply yourself there and strive to move up that ladder. At least then a 200K salary is within reach.

Sounds like you are looking for glory. And will be throwing away 70K to acieve fame and $40K a year like Gabe.

Take a month off work, put 5-10K in your pocket, follow the top pros around and see if they will gamble with you for 50-100-200 sets. That should quickly assess your game.

Ask yourself if waht you want is to be called a pro; to play with the pros; or to make money playing with the pros. And what would you do if two years from now you lost your job and found out you couldn't cut it as a pro?

Also, 50K in winnings as a pro equates to about $10,000 net.

Jake
 
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