Behind the Rack Break Shots

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've never been 100% comfortable with behind the rack breaks, and I think it's because I often hit the middle of the rack, and get left stuck back in the rack, or even below it like this:

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Conventional wisdom says to use outside english when you have a big angle on the break shot, and inside when you have a shallow angle. Steve Lipsky mentioned hitting the last ball, or glancing off the next to last ball instead of hitting the meat of the pack. I think that is where I've been going wrong. Are there any other rules of thumb for these shots?
 
In Jim Rempe's "How to Run a Hundred" video from Accu-Stats he says that if the cue ball is going to hit on the inside of the round second ball, which would be the side of the 6 between the 6 and 9 in your diagram, you should use high inside spin and come 3 cushions around to the center of the table. You gotta hit it firm though to get it to go that far. If it's going to hit on the outside of the round of the second ball, which would be the side of the 6 between the 6 and the 10 in your diagram, you should use high outside with a medium stroke and come one cushion to the center of the table. With that break shot you're going to want to practice it, you'll want to practice all of your break shots of course, so you can judge the speed of the shot. It's really easy to go across table and scratch in the side. He says once you get past that center ball, the 9 diagrammed here, the same rules apply only in reverse. If you're going to hit between the 9 and 4 you'll want to draw with outside so you come over to the cushion and go 3 rails around, a really good stroke is needed on that, and if you hit between the 4 and 5 you'll want draw with inside so you come one cushion and out to the center. Again, be very careful of the scratch in the side. He didn't say anything about if you're going to hit the 9-ball.

Diagram 1: Inside of the round of the second ball use high inside and go 3 cushions around to the center.
Diagram 2: Outside of the round of the second ball use high outside and go 1 cushion to center table. Careful of the scratch.

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Diagram 1: Outside of the round of the 2nd ball use low outside and draw 3 cushions and out to center table.
Diagram 2: Inside of the round of the 2nd ball use low inside and draw one rail out to center table.

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To be honest though, I don't like the draw versions of this shot, especially the drawing 3 rails. I can stroke that well enough to get it but I don't like it. Hope these help you out.
MULLY
 
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mullyman said:
In Jim Rempe's "How to Run a Hundred" video from Accu-Stats he says that if the cue ball is going to hit on the inside of the round second ball, which would be the side of the 6 between the 6 and 9 in your diagram, you should use high inside spin and come 3 cushions around to the center of the table. You gotta hit it firm though to get it to go that far. If it's going to hit on the outside of the round of the second ball, which would be the side of the 6 between the 6 and the 10 in your diagram, you should use high outside with a medium stroke and come one cushion to the center of the table.

MULLY
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Thanks. I have that video, but haven't watched it in a long time. I'll have to give those a try.
 
Yeah, take a look at that video again and let Jim explain it the right way. It seems to work better for me when I have a visual too.
MULLY
it's either the 100 ball run tape or the how to run a rack tape
 
The general rule of thumb for those types of shots is if the cue ball is below the object ball use high inside and follow three rails out to the center of the table,,if the cue ball is above the object ball use high outside and go one rail and spin out to the center of the table,,,hpoe this helps
 
poolhound said:
The general rule of thumb for those types of shots is if the cue ball is below the object ball use high inside and follow three rails out to the center of the table,,if the cue ball is above the object ball use high outside and go one rail and spin out to the center of the table,,,hpoe this helps
Click to expand...

Interesting. I could see that being the case when the cueball will hit near the center of the rack, but when you are going to hit between the two end balls, a steeper angle will drive you through them.
 
mullyman said:
If you're going to hit between the 9 and 4 you'll want to draw with outside so you come over to the cushion and go 3 rails around,

Diagram 1: Outside of the round of the 2nd ball use low outside and draw 3 cushions and out to center table.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen my Rempe tape in a while, but if he said that I doubt he showed it. I don't think anyone would ever play that shot. They would go 3 cushions forward on that.
 
In the below diagrams I try to show that most players stay away from these break shots because they don't know how to properly control them. Players scratch on these shots for two basic reasons -

a) They get on the wrong side of the ball - or get the wrong angle for the break shot

b) they try to blast the rack apart and send the cue ball into the back of teh stack like a cannonball.

Diagram 1
Short Side VS Long Side

Short Side
I always go for the short side - the short side bing the side of the rack where the break ball is located. From there I have less of a chance of scratching unless I do something really stupid (like draw back into the pocket, or follow carelessly into the other pocket.

Long Side
The long side isn't always bad, you just have to be more careful. It is easier to scratch from the long side (In my experience)

Diagram 2 -
Neat in - Neat out
I can never stress this point enough - the neater you are with your cue ball on these break shots, the better off you will be when the balls stop rolling.

Don't blast the cue ball into the rack - never sacrifice accuracy with power.

Play position on the cue ball - even if the cue ball doesn't do what you want it to do, having a predetermined destination is 100 times better than letting it go and hoping for the best.

Hope this helps you out.

CueTable Help

 
bluepepper said:
I haven't seen my Rempe tape in a while, but if he said that I doubt he showed it. I don't think anyone would ever play that shot. They would go 3 cushions forward on that.
Click to expand...


Don't shoot the messenger, man. King James said it, not me. hehe!!
MULLY
 
Blackjack said:
In the below diagrams I try to show that most players stay away from these break shots because they don't know how to properly control them. Players scratch on these shots for two basic reasons -

a) They get on the wrong side of the ball - or get the wrong angle for the break shot

b) they try to blast the rack apart and send the cue ball into the back of teh stack like a cannonball.

Diagram 1
Short Side VS Long Side

Short Side
I always go for the short side - the short side bing the side of the rack where the break ball is located. From there I have less of a chance of scratching unless I do something really stupid (like draw back into the pocket, or follow carelessly into the other pocket.

Long Side
The long side isn't always bad, you just have to be more careful. It is easier to scratch from the long side (In my experience)

Diagram 2 -
Neat in - Neat out
I can never stress this point enough - the neater you are with your cue ball on these break shots, the better off you will be when the balls stop rolling.

Don't blast the cue ball into the rack - never sacrifice accuracy with power.

Play position on the cue ball - even if the cue ball doesn't do what you want it to do, having a predetermined destination is 100 times better than letting it go and hoping for the best.

Hope this helps you out.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...


Blackjack, thanks for the lesson. I have always avoided the short side of behind-the-rack breakshots like the plague, but based on your advice, I'm going to give them another chance.

Thanks!

- Steve
 
mullyman said:
Don't shoot the messenger, man. King James said it, not me. hehe!!
MULLY
Click to expand...

Oh I know. Sorry, I didn't mean for that post to read as an attack on what you were relaying. I just must have missed that shot when he described it. I do remember when he was describing that series of shots, and if I recall correctly, he didn't hit them all. That had to be one that he didn't hit. I've yet to see it played. Worth trying though.
 
Blackjack,

Was at the poolroom tonight and spent some time on the short side vs. the long side. I was having difficulty getting consistent results from the short side - so much so that I brought over 3 good players (one of whom is a former world champion) to ask for their opinions.

Maybe it's a geographical thing, but all three of them expressed shock at playing purposely to the short side. At first they asked me if I knew the speed of the guy who was suggesting this, and when I said he was a 200 ball runner, they began to take this more seriously (skeptical NYers! ;) ).

Anyway, the closest we could figure is that you're going three rails with inside english? We got some decent results with this, though we did get plenty of kisses too. Anytime we drew the ball it was usually bad, except when the object ball was laying perfectly towards the edge of the outer ball in the rack, and we could comfortably draw with inside english one rail to the center of the table.

Anyway, we have open minds on this so we're eager to hear some more information from you on this shot if you wouldn't mind sharing. To begin with, are you drawing or following? It's not clear from your earlier post how you're hitting the cueball. Could you diagram how a typical rack would look after you break the balls in this manner, and the path your cueball would take?

Thanks David, we really appreciate it!

- Steve
 
I've played the shot for years and I never draw the ball. High inside, hard enough to get the cue ball off the third rail almost always leaves a simple shot across table of an easy one down table. I always like a big angle.
 
Paul, I don't mean to offend if you're someone famous but I know your name and I can't for the life of me figure out why? Also, your avatar is the same as the tattoo on my back, except mine has him holding an 8-ball over his head.
MULLY
how's that for dedication to a sport
 
bluepepper said:
Oh I know. Sorry, I didn't mean for that post to read as an attack on what you were relaying. I just must have missed that shot when he described it. I do remember when he was describing that series of shots, and if I recall correctly, he didn't hit them all. That had to be one that he didn't hit. I've yet to see it played. Worth trying though.
Click to expand...


It's all good, man. I didn't really take it as an attack, hence the "hehe!" at the end. I've drawn the ball when it's been on the outside of the rack, like between the last 2 balls, but anything other than that I've always used follow or just hammered it, depending on the angle I had. I think you're right in that Rempe explained those 2 shots but didn't shoot them. I think he only shot the follow shots. I'd have to pull the tape out to make sure but I think you're right.
MULLY
 
mullyman said:
I've drawn the ball when it's been on the outside of the rack, like between the last 2 balls, but anything other than that I've always used follow or just hammered it,MULLY
Click to expand...

When you say that you've drawn it, are you saying 3 rails like he suggested?
 
Steve Lipsky said:
Blackjack,

Was at the poolroom tonight and spent some time on the short side vs. the long side. I was having difficulty getting consistent results from the short side - so much so that I brought over 3 good players (one of whom is a former world champion) to ask for their opinions.
Click to expand...

Steve, you lucky #?%&% for having world champions around to ask for a piece of advice :cool: Makes me green of envy...

I also try to avoid breaking from behind the rack but if I have to, I tend to prefer the long side. High inside is usually a good way to get out of there, but could end up in a disaster if the break ball is in short side as the cueball is heading towards the loose balls coming out from the rack. That's why I follow Blackjacks excellent rule of the thumb "neat in, neat out" and just bunt a few balls open with a soft stroke, get the cueball away from the rack, which usually means I'm taking a long shot in the head corner pockets or in the side after the break.

Again, excellent stuff from Blackjack, but I'm not as comfortable breaking from the short side as he is.
 
bluepepper said:
When you say that you've drawn it, are you saying 3 rails like he suggested?
Click to expand...

In practice, yes. In a game, no. The *stroke* for the 3 rail shot isn't the problem for me. I can get the 3 rails no problem......if the CB doesn't run into something on the way around. I just haven't come up with that break in a game yet.
MULLY
 
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