I have a friend a work who recently bought a no name cue, late at night, drunk in a bar, from guess who, another drunk in a bar, and paid way way too much for it to boot, because it has alot of cheap inlayed bling in it. Anyway, he recently took it out to play against me, and I noticed it is crooked as hell together, so I unscrewed it, rolled it seperate, and every thing is straight, but as I rolled the butt, I couldn't help but see an obvious wobble on the end of the pin itself, (5/16-18 I think). So my question is, how can this be straightened, or replaced. It looks like nickle plate to me, screwed into wood, so I can't imagine bending it back without damaging the threads in the butt. Whats the proper fix here please?
Bent Pin
- Thread starter Renegade_56
- Start date
From your description, it seems most likely that the pin is off center, or
the bore is not concentric to the centerline of the butt.
If both the butt and shaft are straight, it most likely needs to have the
joint faced off.
For future reference - rolling cues, or parts therof on pool tables only
indicates how round they are.
If possible - take it to a cue guy who owns and operates a dial indicator.
Dale
I assure you I am quite capable with a dial indicator, I am a CNC Programmer, (aerospace), and have been in the Machinist trade since 1974. The pin may or may not be concentric to the butt, but it is obvious to the naked eye that it runs out when rolled on a flat surface, pool table, or granite block would make no difference. It looks bent, so assuming the pin is bent, but is threaded into a concentric tapped hole, how do I remove the pin without damaging the cue butt?
If you roll a cylindrical part, of any kind, on a flat surface, and it lifts from that surface, either in the middle, and/or on the ends, it is certainly an indication of whether it is straight or not. If it rolls true, but favors a low side, then I'd buy your point about roundness, but only if everything rolls straight.
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no, there is an obvious concentricity runout between the shaft and the butt at the joint.
I really feel sorry for this guy, he paid like $700 for this crap, I could have put him on a much better cue for alot less. This cue looks like one of those $69 Phillipines cues on ebay.
Search on "remove pin" or "removing pin"
Here's just one of the threads on the subject.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=112710&highlight=removing
Here's just one of the threads on the subject.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=112710&highlight=removing
Some would attempt to straighten the pin, you can put it in a lathe and bump it with the toolpost to get it straighter, I'd probably warm the pin up with a torch, just enough to degrade the glue, and remove it. bore the cue, plug it, then re-tap for a new pin. Then, it's likely the insert in the shaft may need replacing, as it may be off-center to match the pin.
Removing joint pins can be tricky, sometimes they are hard to get out, and the heat can damage the glue holding the trim rings. It's rare, but sometimes happens. Some cue makers feel a need to cut grooves, etc. in the pins before they install them. This can make it problematic when removing them.
Removing joint pins can be tricky, sometimes they are hard to get out, and the heat can damage the glue holding the trim rings. It's rare, but sometimes happens. Some cue makers feel a need to cut grooves, etc. in the pins before they install them. This can make it problematic when removing them.
Now thats good stuff, I'll try heating it up and backing it out with a couple of jammed nuts. I thought about trying to bump it straight, but I felt I'd move the wood before the steel pin moved.
Thanks Sheldon.
If you don't want to heat the pin, then you can use a carbide endmill. Cut the pin as close to the joint as possible, center drill, the let the endmill will chew the pin up.
Then bore the hole true, plug it, and then drill, bore, tap for a new pin. I personally like using an endmill being best could damage the joint collar. JMO
Then bore the hole true, plug it, and then drill, bore, tap for a new pin. I personally like using an endmill being best could damage the joint collar. JMO
It sounds like you have a plan, but if you were to use a delrin tapered collet that matches the taper on the cue with ID that matches at the very end of the joint so you are chucked up all the way at the end, I doubt the wood can "move". Positioning one of the chuck jaws immediately behind where you are pushing might help facilitate also.
Kelly
Straighten the pin while it's still in the cue.
You'll save yourself a lot of extra work and hassle that
you really don't need.
If it bent, it will bend back.
Surround the joint with a collet as Kelly suggested to support the wood.
Place it in the lathe chuck with just the pin extending beyond the jaws.
You can move the pin with the tool-post as Sheldon stated or you could even
'tonk' it with a rubber comp. dead-blow hammer. Put a nut on the pin to protect
the threads. You will straighten the pin.
Face the handle & shaft when you're done.
You'll save yourself a lot of extra work and hassle that
you really don't need.
If it bent, it will bend back.
Surround the joint with a collet as Kelly suggested to support the wood.
Place it in the lathe chuck with just the pin extending beyond the jaws.
You can move the pin with the tool-post as Sheldon stated or you could even
'tonk' it with a rubber comp. dead-blow hammer. Put a nut on the pin to protect
the threads. You will straighten the pin.
Face the handle & shaft when you're done.
All great ideas, I think I'll try and straighten it for him then, I can always try and remove it if I fail. Thanks alot guys,,,,,,,,,,
As soon as I read Your first post I knew what kind of cue it was. It's really common with some of those ebay specials, but I've ran into it with a lot of the more popular imports as well. My experiences with this kind of thing are much the same as what all Sheldon described. It can turn into quite an ordeal. fix one problem and get pulled into another one. I've been there done that, and for me to get into that kind of thing, It's gonna cost more then what others may charge, because I'm gonna assume ahead of time that I will run into issues with the insert, and lining the shaft back up. I can get It right, but depending on what I run into, I may not be as fast as others are at it, so My labor can run higher then the job is worth to some people.
I had a buddy that ran into the same type thing with one of those cues just not too long ago, he was asking me if the pin was bent. Looked Like It was not in there straight to me. but He only paid $50-$75 for the cue, and the inlays were real so he was happy with It for what he paid. He buys cheap cues all the time, and usually they have one issue or another. I flat out told Him that it may cost more to have me fix it then he paid for the cue, and that if he can live it then he would be better off. It didn't bother his play though, he didn't even notice it until he was rolling the butt on the table with shaft detached.
The ideas that have already been mentioned are good alternatives to try if It's bent, important to have a somewhat wide delrin collet there, preferably a thicker one too. rounded or champered edges on the ID so that It doesn't cut into the finish.Already having experience with the indicator, I'm sure you already know to find the highest spot, and to stay directly inline with that when You use any force to move It into the other direction, otherwise It could be counter productive, and your only bending It in another direction. One other thing, even with the added protection of the collet backing It, and regardless with what Method You use to apply force, still be very cautious of how much You use. Use no more then It takes. Basic mechanical mentality, start out minimal, and gradually increase til the goal is reached or It's getting too hairy feeling, at that point you may want to take a breather and rethink things before pushing anymore.
And you still have a ton to learn about cues, and manners -
as is evident by your question.
I admire your philosophy of offending someone who could have solved your
problem in his sleep.
Best of luck with your search.
Dale
Wow, didn't mean to get you all in a huff there pard,,you are absolutely correct, I know very little about cue building and repair, which is why I came here. I had no intent to offend anyone, just made the point that cue guys are not the only people that can operate a dial indicator. On the other hand though, as soon as I read the statement about rolling a cylindrical object on a flat surface only indicating roundness, I knew you probably weren't my guy for info. All you did was imply this was likely over my head,,,,,,everyone else interjected helpful information, but thanks for taking the time anyway. Have a nice day,,,,,,,,
I had a similar problem , shaft and butt rolled out good apart , wobble together . One night i tightened the joint pretty tight , didn't notice till later the joint was more even , started tightening the joint tighter a few times . Ever heard of a pin straightening doing this ?
Renegade, I agree with you that this forum is a great source for knowledge and wisdom in the cue making area. As for Pard, is was a very demeaning and understating comment when you have no idea what machining knowledge a person has before you know them. Maybe you should get off of you high horse, becuase you come across very snoody when the actually part of machining a cue is very simple to cut compared to alot of other items that machinest have to produce. Cue making takes knowledge, experience, and advise from other builders, which is why we are all here to give and receive support. Renegade was clearly only pointing out your mistake and solidifying his knowledgable background in other machining areas for you.Please keep your demeaning comments of off the forum, as this is a place for support and no one is looking for an arguement.
Very well put, I intend to offend no one. Thank you all very much for your input.
angled pin
I have a cue with an angled pin.
When the cue is tightened to the point that everything lines up,it is straight, but just loosen it off a little and it is all over the place. I only found it when I went to make a replacement shaft and found it would not align properly.
Initially I thought the pin was bent, but found it to be installed on a slight angle.
The fix is a new pin in the handle and a rebore and plug in the shaft.
To make it realign, I had the pin bottom out in the handle,then tried the shaft, calculated the amount the pin needed to be shortend to align.
Tested, then glued into position.
It did not require the faces to be skimmed
Looks good now.
I have a cue with an angled pin.
When the cue is tightened to the point that everything lines up,it is straight, but just loosen it off a little and it is all over the place. I only found it when I went to make a replacement shaft and found it would not align properly.
Initially I thought the pin was bent, but found it to be installed on a slight angle.
The fix is a new pin in the handle and a rebore and plug in the shaft.
To make it realign, I had the pin bottom out in the handle,then tried the shaft, calculated the amount the pin needed to be shortend to align.
Tested, then glued into position.
It did not require the faces to be skimmed
Looks good now.