Mike, I made no reference to Fargo ratings whatsoever in my post responding to Kris. Maybe you need to address this with him.
Bergman will play WNT events in 2026
- Thread starter SA96
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True that!
Don't agree here. What you say may be true of pool's execution skills, but it is definitely not true of conceptualization skills, those skills pertaining to shot selection and design, and tactical decision making.
All the Top 20 are very good at executing shots, but the best few make significantly better decisions than the others. To suggest that the entire difference between the top few and the other elite players boils down to grit and heart is to miss the boat. That's only part of what separates the best few from the rest.
Except thats not how fargo works, its already built in
If what Soctt Frost is saying is true, Justin will be doing some flying this year.
On the other hand, if he plays just the two America-based WNT majors, meaning the US Open and Florida Open, and skips all the other WNT majors, I wonder if he would be considered for Team USA at all. Unless your name is Earl, significant participation in WNT majors is a prerequisite for Mosconi inclusion.
Yes, that's obviously true.
Do you know Bergman? Is it true he hates airplanes? I’ve also heard he is germaphobic. I doubt that is true but I don’t know him personally so, who knows? I do play just outside his home area and occasionally play people who do know him. I’ve never heard anyone who knows him to say he won’t travel, for the above reasons. Even at 38, I hope he makes a go of it.
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Well Stu, as I said in my initial post, I find the differences between the top 20 regarding skill set, to be very little.
You mention conceptualization skills, and the subset of skills you feel falls under that. I agree that these things are a part of the equation. To me though, I feel this is a part of their execution skills, that which I referred to in there being a small difference between them.
Now decision making I don’t feel there is much difference either, but I think there is difference between players in their BELIEF in their decisions prior to execution. Belief, and the ability to fully trust in their skills, and be fully committed to decision they make. That I don’t lump in with skill set, I put that in the heart/grit category myself. Why? Because I relate that to confidence.
Example, do you recall a match I saw you watching at the Derby in the 9 ball division between Filler/SVB? Where Filler on this occasion just tortured him 9-2 in a little over 1/2 hour? When Filler is on like that he plays extraordinarily quick, has full confidence and is fully committed to his shots. Then look at slower players that agonize over simple layouts and look at a shot, especially testers, about 4 different ways before they pull the trigger and drive it straight into a rail and dog it, kinda like Styer’s difficult moments at the recent Mosconi Cup. I don’t think there’s a big difference between those 2 players decision making skills, but there’s a huge gap in their confidence/commitment to their decisions. YMMV
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No, that's not the difference. The best few are making better decisions than the rest. They see the table differently and have far more insight into managing the more intricate positions. They regularly see options that others overlook. Legendary player Jonny Ervolino once said of Efren Reyes that he "looked at a pool table and saw things that no player before him ever saw." It is every bit as true of a Filler or Gorst. Pool is both science and art. I think we are together in our sense that in the science part of the game, inclusive of execution skills, the differences at the top are small, but I feel that in the art part of the game, the differences can be huge.
As you indicate, belief in their decisions matters, but that's mostly mental game stuff, and I agree that it is critical. The shot clock is also relevant here. Some are not as effective when their decisions must be made with greater promptness, and it can get in the way of superior conceptualization.
To be honest, if I felt that there was little diversity in decision making skills in world championship level pro pool, I probably would not watch pro pool at all. Watching the many flavors of breaking the balls, pattern play, tactical reasoning, and general strategic orientation at the very top of the game is what makes the game interesting for me.
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iirc shane was up 2-0 and filler ran the set out, then ran 6 racks on fedor until fedor just conceded.
if he plans on winning he has to beat a couple of top 16 players at basically every event, that's the only way I know you get to be a top 16 ranked player
Yes, I was ringside for that one. Filler ran an 8-pack and shot TPA 1.000 and, as you note, his tempo was fast.
It was an example of a match in which there was virtually no tactical play, so the only important decisions he had to make were with regard to the break shot and the pattern building. Although his play was mind-blowingly brilliant, he didn't have to reach into his entire bag of tricks in that one. Some matches go that way, and while they are impressive, I don't enjoy matches like that one much. In WNT play, in which 4" pockets are the rule, such matches almost never occur. Shaw is probably Filler's equal in his ability to instantly identify the best cue ball routes from ball to ball, so anytime he wins an offense-only match, it goes by very quickly.
An interesting moment at the BCA Hall of Fame dinner came just a couple of years ago. Inductee Niels Feijen noted, in his induction speech, that he never had the instincts or talent of a Filler or a Shaw, and that he had to work much harder at this craft because of it. If we needed a reminder that some find pool's decision making more difficult and challenging than others, that was it.
I believe Filler to be the game's best and most instinctual decision maker at the table, among the top few ever in this regard. Few can design an ideal pattern at the speed he does, few can identify the right kick shot as quickly as him, few make quicker or better defensive decisions, and few are quicker at identifying two-way shots. That said, Filler will take his time when any tricky position arises. Josh is a modern-day pool super-genius, and that's why his decisions are so quick and accurate. The other all-around pool super-geniuses in today's game, the most obvious being Fedor Gorst, Carlo Biado, Ko Ping Chung, and Alex Pagulayan, all take quite a bit more time than Josh, although each consistently makes superb decisions.
Like you, I am awed by those who can make elite decisions in an instant. I think that, as you suggest, it gives them a playing tempo that is fast and even and is to be envied. When the select few find their highest gear, they almost appear to be on automatic pilot, but in fact, they are not.
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the open events are 256 players so top 128.. we've seen previous events where some known killer is coming out of the woodwork, no ranking, and gets unseeded. someone gets a tough first round hehe
Well, not quite.
In the 1 AM (local time) match vs. SVB, Filler won 9-0 with 8 B&Rs, all but Game 2. In Game 2, SVB scratched on a rail-1st safety on the 1-ball, his 4th visit to the table, and Filler ran out the match. Average minutes per game -- 3.3.
In the 2:30 AM semifinal vs. Gorst, Gorst won the first game then missed the 1-ball after his break in Game 2. Filler ran out Game 2, then had B&Rs in Games 3 and 4, and was running out Game 5 when Gorst conceded the match with 2 balls left on the table.
Then, from about 4:30 PM to 5:50 PM the same day (Sunday), Filler defeated Pagulayan 9-6 for the title. That match had just 2 B&Rs, both by Filler.
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Thanks for the correction. Can't wait for Derby City, just over 3 weeks away.
Hoping to go to sleep a little earlier on the upcoming Derby City 9ball Saturday.