Best Advice Ever For Straight-In Shots?

Dr. Dave……when you make a point and support your conclusions with empirical evidence accompanied by
geometrical illustrations, algebraic formulas and calculations, I am blown away by my own ignorance about
the subject matter under discussion. If you were attempting to sell me the Bklyn Bridge, you’d already have
my deposit and 1st installment payment. When it comes to billiards, your creditability is unmatched by anyone.
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just created another analysis:


All the ways both CIT and SIT vary with cut angle, speed, and amount of inside or outside spin are now totally covered and described here:

Here are the bottom-line conclusions of the two analyses:

With a fairly straight shot, only about 50% of maximum outside spin is required to get maximum spin-induced throw (SIT) at slow speed. For large cut angles, much more outside spin is required for maximum SIT.

With a very small cut-angle shot, only about 50% of maximum inside spin is required to get maximum cut-induced throw (CIT) at slow speed. For large cut angles, outside spin is required for maximum CIT (with larger amounts of outside spin required at larger angles).
Click to expand...
If negative inside spin is equivalent to outside spin, it looks like for a 1/2 ball hit and fast speed, you need 10% of maximum outside spin to achieve maximum throw in the cut direction.

Spelling error:
Here is how the percentage of iside spin (PIS) required for maximum cut-induced throw (CIT) varies with cut angle (φA) for both slow and fast shots:
Click to expand...
 
jay helfert said:
I'll share something else that may seem weird but it works anyway. On an extreme cut shot (75-80 degrees or more) it is better to hit the cue ball just below center, almost like stop shot english. It seems you can hit it thinner that way and more accurately. Someone (Danny?) once explained to me that when you use center ball you are imparting some throw to the object ball. With low english there is no throw. After all these years I'm not sure I understand that but just try shooting some extreme cut shots with low english and gauge your own results.
Click to expand...
Backspin (as well as a rolling cue ball) and fast speed all reduce the amount of CIT. Presumably, adding some inside english would also reduce whatever little CIT remains because inside spin increases the overall speed of the cue ball surface (the speed towards the ob + the rotational speed towards the ob from the spin), which results in less rubbing against the ob; but hitting away from the vertical axis will result in deflection and might negatively affect the fine aiming necessary. Hitting outside english with fast speed is self defeating: the rotation is in the opposite direction of the cue ball's speed towards the ob, thus slowing down the overall cue ball surface speed, resulting in better rubbing against the ob than just hitting center ball, which results in more throw.

Dr. Dave's new graphs show that you need more and more outside spin as the cut angle gets greater to maximize the throw. The outside spin slows down the overall surface speed of the cue ball in the direction of the ob--because the spin is coming back at you, which is in the opposite direction that the cue ball is moving towards the ob, and a slower cue ball surface speed provides better rubbing against the ob and therefore more throw.
 
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7stud said:
Backspin (as well as a rolling cue ball) and fast speed both reduce the amount of CIT. Presumably, adding some inside english would also reduce whatever little CIT remains because inside spin increases the overall speed of the cue ball surface (the speed towards the ob + the rotational speed towards the ob from the spin), which results in less rubbing against the ob; but hitting away from the vertical axis will result in deflection and might negatively affect the fine aiming necessary. Hitting outside english with fast speed is self defeating: the rotation is in the opposite direction of the cue ball's speed towards the ob, thus slowing down the overall cue ball surface speed, resulting in better rubbing against the ob, which results in more throw.

Dr. Dave's new graphs show that you need more and more outside spin as the cut angle gets greater to maximize the throw. The outside spin slows down the overall surface speed of the cue ball in the direction of the ob--because the spin is coming back at you, which is in the opposite direction that the cue ball is moving towards the ob, and a slower cue ball surface speed provides better rubbing against the ob and therefore more throw.
Click to expand...

Good summaries. For those few who might want more info, it can be found here:

 
7stud said:
Backspin (as well as a rolling cue ball) and fast speed all reduce the amount of CIT. Presumably, adding some inside english would also reduce whatever little CIT remains because inside spin increases the overall speed of the cue ball surface (the speed towards the ob + the rotational speed towards the ob from the spin), which results in less rubbing against the ob; but hitting away from the vertical axis will result in deflection and might negatively affect the fine aiming necessary. Hitting outside english with fast speed is self defeating: the rotation is in the opposite direction of the cue ball's speed towards the ob, thus slowing down the overall cue ball surface speed, resulting in better rubbing against the ob than just hitting center ball, which results in more throw.

Dr. Dave's new graphs show that you need more and more outside spin as the cut angle gets greater to maximize the throw. The outside spin slows down the overall surface speed of the cue ball in the direction of the ob--because the spin is coming back at you, which is in the opposite direction that the cue ball is moving towards the ob, and a slower cue ball surface speed provides better rubbing against the ob and therefore more throw.
Click to expand...
Throw is good!
 
7stud said:
Backspin (as well as a rolling cue ball) and fast speed all reduce the amount of CIT. Presumably, adding some inside english would also reduce whatever little CIT remains because inside spin increases the overall speed of the cue ball surface (the speed towards the ob + the rotational speed towards the ob from the spin), which results in less rubbing against the ob; but hitting away from the vertical axis will result in deflection and might negatively affect the fine aiming necessary. Hitting outside english with fast speed is self defeating: the rotation is in the opposite direction of the cue ball's speed towards the ob, thus slowing down the overall cue ball surface speed, resulting in better rubbing against the ob than just hitting center ball, which results in more throw.

Dr. Dave's new graphs show that you need more and more outside spin as the cut angle gets greater to maximize the throw. The outside spin slows down the overall surface speed of the cue ball in the direction of the ob--because the spin is coming back at you, which is in the opposite direction that the cue ball is moving towards the ob, and a slower cue ball surface speed provides better rubbing against the ob and therefore more throw.
Click to expand...
Studley, please learn how to use periods bro!!
I ran out of breath halfway thru.😂😂
Confusingly kidding.😉
 
7stud said:
Backspin (as well as a rolling cue ball) and fast speed all reduce the amount of CIT. Presumably, adding some inside english would also reduce whatever little CIT remains because inside spin increases the overall speed of the cue ball surface (the speed towards the ob + the rotational speed towards the ob from the spin), which results in less rubbing against the ob; but hitting away from the vertical axis will result in deflection and might negatively affect the fine aiming necessary. Hitting outside english with fast speed is self defeating: the rotation is in the opposite direction of the cue ball's speed towards the ob, thus slowing down the overall cue ball surface speed, resulting in better rubbing against the ob than just hitting center ball, which results in more throw.

Dr. Dave's new graphs show that you need more and more outside spin as the cut angle gets greater to maximize the throw. The outside spin slows down the overall surface speed of the cue ball in the direction of the ob--because the spin is coming back at you, which is in the opposite direction that the cue ball is moving towards the ob, and a slower cue ball surface speed provides better rubbing against the ob and therefore more throw.
Click to expand...
Can you simplify that for newbies please?? You're an accomplished player and there's gotta be a simpler way to pass that on to someone if lessor skill... Perhaps, cut to the left use right, or to increase throw towards the hole use....etc, etc ...
Just curious.
Not trying to criticize or push any buttons. This is good stuff, but there's no way newbies can understand it in it's present form.
 
Mensabum said:
Can you simplify that for newbies please?? You're an accomplished player and there's gotta be a simpler way to pass that on to someone if lessor skill... Perhaps, cut to the left use right, or to increase throw towards the hole use....etc, etc ...
Just curious.
Not trying to criticize or push any buttons. This is good stuff, but there's no way newbies can understand it in it's present form.
Click to expand...

A good resource for "newbies" (and others) to learn about and understand important throw effects is my throw tutorial page, especially the "10 Things You Need to Know About Throw in Your Game" list at the bottom of the page. This video might also be helpful:


And for those wanting to do a "deep dive," all throw topics are covered in great detail at the links and videos here:

 
dr_dave said:
A good resource for "newbies" (and others) to learn about and understand important throw effects is my throw tutorial page, especially the "10 Things You Need to Know About Throw in Your Game" list at the bottom of the page. This video might also be helpful:


And for those wanting to do a "deep dive," all throw topics are covered in great detail at the links and videos here:

Click to expand...
Thank you Doc!!
Knew we could count on ya for the goodies.👍🏻
 
Mensabum said:
Can you simplify that for newbies please?? You're an accomplished player and there's gotta be a simpler way to pass that on to someone if lessor skill... Perhaps, cut to the left use right, or to increase throw towards the hole use....etc, etc ...
Just curious.
Not trying to criticize or push any buttons. This is good stuff, but there's no way newbies can understand it in it's present form.
Click to expand...
Cut angle and rubbing speed...
- more = less throw
- less = more throw

pj
chgo
 
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dr_dave said:
more cut angle = less throw (except at small cut angles, or at larger cut angles with certain amounts of outside spin)
less cut angle = more throw (except at small cut angles, especially with certain amounts of inside spin)
Click to expand...
There you have it guys. Just what the Dr. ordered. Even better mousetrap. 😂 Thanks Doc!!👍🏻
 
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Should also be mentioned that much like driving a car, the response of these shots per given conditions are pretty consistent and easily internalized.
 
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