Best Golfer Amongst Pro Pool Players?

BPG24 said:
You are right about that....

There aren't many + handicap golfers in the world. One would have to play and practice at least 3 times a week and be extremely talented to play at that level.

Most of the guys on the smaller tours don't have a true + handicap... It is easy to cheat the GHIN System. Anyone can put in any score they want on any course they want. But I promise you that there aren't too many people that do anything for a living but play golf that truly have a + handicap

As regards how many true + golfers there are in the world............ "aren't many" can of course mean different things to different people. It's an interesting question to ponder. I suspect the number is probably in the very high 4 digits or low/medium 5 digits but wouldn't like to be too strongly opinioned on any more accurate assessment than that.

I haven't picked those figures completely out of the air but it does obviously include some judgement calls.To give some pointers on this the World Amateur Golf Ranking presently has 1700 players listed as having won points in ranking tournaments in the present year. The young guy in position 1699 has a handicap of +3.2 and I defintely know that he is a rock solid genuine + golfer as I have played a friendly game with him and I know players who have played against him in The European Championships etc. It is highly unlikely there are more than a handful, if any, on that list who are not genuine + golfers. A large number of + golfers, especially those older than say 32/35'ish, do not enter any World Amateur Ranking events, particularly the much older ones and I would take an educated guess that for every player on that list of 1700 there may be at the very least another 4-6 or so who are not on it, possibly more.

By the way, as an aside to this, a gentleman from the Royal and Ancient who I have good reason to believe knows quite a bit about the subject, once told my buddy that if you have any single digit handicap at all you are in the top 3% in ability amongst all golfers in the world. Take a bow guys!:)

As regards the CONGU handicap system used by a large proportion of the world's golfers it is very different from the USGA system. It is exceptionally difficult for anyone within CONGU who reaches Category 1 (handicap 5 or under) to then lower their handicap further. Without special written permission from The Royal and Ancient they cannot be raised or cut in handicap for scores made in any round at all except returned scores in official club/open competitions rated as qualifiers for handicap purposes. For each stroke by which they beat the "competition standard scratch" score in such events they are cut 0.1. They are allowed to shoot a net score within a buffer of 1 stroke above the competition standard scratch score without being raised in handicap, but if they are outside that buffer they go up 0.1. All "no returns" and dq's result in an increase of 0.1. Scores in any kind of friendly game or non handicap qualifying competition are disregarded for both raises and cuts. All scores are automatically converted to stableford under the CONGU system and this effectively means that any high score made on any hole is rounded down to the lowest number at which the player would have scored zero stableford points....e.g.....a 2 handicapper playing the par 4 'stroke index 1' hole and taking an 8 would effectively result in that 8 only being treated as a 6 for the purposes of handicap adjustments.

On the balance of probability the vast majority of golfers with a + handicap within a CONGU administered handicap system are pretty much nailed on to be genuine + golfers. On the other hand if someone with a CONGU handicap has worked hard at getting to Category 1, doesn't think he can get any better and for vanity purposes now wants to simply keep his let's say 4.3 handicap, all he has to do is then stop playing in official tournaments which qualify for handicap purposes. Equally a prize seeking "bandit" who knows he is rapidly improving via his friendly play can just avoid handicap qualifying tournaments and then pounce on a big prize with his static original handicap which has remained high. Under CONGU, clubs and other handicap administrators can cut the handicap of any of their members who are not Category 1 golfers by one or more complete strokes any time they like under the "general play" rule without any official competition results, provided such a cut isn't going to take the player straight into Category 1.

Hope this ramble is of some interest.
 
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Forgot to mention.....but it's relevant.......there has always been a bit of misunderstanding around in some golfing circles about what a handicap is intended to fairly represent in terms of ability and this can colour opinions a bit.

Pretty sure our more serious golfers on here already know but just in case any casual golfers are in doubt.....your handicap is supposed to reflect not your best score nor your average score....but the score you shoot when you play quite well and have a "good" round of golf.
 
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Earl is a past Sedgefield Club champion

Earl and I played golf at my club (reg. member's tees) many years ago when he was an 8 to 10 handicap. His conduct was as a gentleman. Through the 1st 7 holes he was 7 over (already at his total handicap normally for 18 holes, so he (I'm sure) wasn't a "Happy Camper" ~ ! The next hole, a par 3 along the road , he hooked it out of bounds, re-teed it and hit it stiff to about 2 feet from the pin for a "tap-in" bogey 4. The next 10 holes, he shot 5 UNDER ~!!! His "focus" and discipline was UNBELIEVEABLE ! He later moved into a new house at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro, NC and continued to play and his handicap got down to a scratch golfer. He won the club Champions flight the next year.

I Vote for Earl as #1 pool playing golfer

Not a bad pool player, either !!!

(by the way......."He's back!!!" and playing great!)
 
John Schmidt is the best no contest

John Schmidt is the best golfer pro pool player that there is... Anyone willing to stake any other pro pool player versus him let me know..John shot 76 or 77 from 7600 at the TPC Virgina Beach course with wet fairways and no roll thats impressive..nation wide tour played there AND I AM PRETTY SURE WINNING SCORE FOR 4 ROUNDS WAS AROUND PAR OR OVER PAR....didn't witness his round but was told about it...He has a swing like a pro golfer its nice..

johnny is good..earl is good..putnam thinks he is good haha...kim decent .. corey decent but john is the best...

NO PRO POOL PLAYER IS A + HANDICAP AND THAT IS A FACT... a scratch golfer means you can tee it up anywhere and shoot in the 60's although a few of them can occassionally shoot a low score they are not scratch golfers..
 
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Hmmm...Now that I think about it.....Even though all the Pro pool players mentioned are well above average at Golf....finding out who is the best is a bit like finding out who is the tallest miget.....

BTW...I won't mention any names....but I think we may hold the distinction of the tallest midget in the world here in Phoenix......and he happens to be a 10 rated player....;)
 
chris bartram said:
John Schmidt is the best golfer pro pool player that there is...

John himself posted on this thread and would seem to disagree. By his own words he doubts being in the top 3.
 
Celtic said:
John himself posted on this thread and would seem to disagree. By his own words he doubts being in the top 3.


John is also a smart gambler and wouldnt want to rate himself too high. :D
 
corvette1340 said:
I have played with Corey, Johnny, Gabe, Shannon, Stevie, and Mike Coltrain. Corey went to Butch Harmons school and David Ledbetters school and he is a good golfer. Johnny is also very good. Gabe and Shannon, not so much. Stevie and Coltrain are both fair. I've never played with John Schmidt but we have talked about it several times. I would play any one of them even for the cash. I would especially like to try Shawn Putnam some if anyone can set that up.

I have heard that getting Shawn to back up his view of his golf game with a bet is hard to do. I have also heard that he evaluates his golf skill from the up-tees and will not play from the tips.

I played golf with Gabe for a week a couple of weeks ago, he's hilarious.
 
senor said:
I have heard that getting Shawn to back up his view of his golf game with a bet is hard to do. I have also heard that he evaluates his golf skill from the up-tees and will not play from the tips.

I played golf with Gabe for a week a couple of weeks ago, he's hilarious.


I enjoy playing with Gabe. He will gamble and is a great guy on top of that. Another of my good friends Brian White has been playing lately with Gabe and some others around Greenville. Do you play with that group?
 
trustyrusty said:
You guys wanna try a really tough one, play Whistling Straights and Black Wolf Run (Kohler courses in WI) in the spring (soggy) with the fan blowing hard off the lake.....BRUTAL. I first played both of 'em mid summer, and we went back in the spring - scores varied by 10+ shots....from now on, summer for those courses :D

I played this course on fathers day. I paid around 380$ for an amazing round of golf. I hit just about every green in regulation, but I did have 4 four putts (those greens are huge, undulating and fast; I had a few putts from inside 5 ft lip out and come back past me). I still shot 86 from the tips and that was after a winter layoff.
 
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I'm gonna show a little gamble here and take 4 a side from anyone that has posted or is listed in this thread. Let me know.
 
corvette1340 said:
I'm gonna show a little gamble here and take 4 a side from anyone that has posted or is listed in this thread. Let me know.


Hmmm...Tiger Woods was listed in this thread...(I will back him)


BTW...I would take 4 a side from "almoste everyone" listed in this thread...;)
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Haha... I'm just saying I don't think a one of them is a "true scratch" golfer. Shooting an occasional par round isn't a scratch golfer, nor is shooting par all the time on some retard course. If you ride along, Vette, I just hope we don't get so shit-faced we forget to collect at the end. Schmidt, if he were playing-playing and not focusing on pool, would maybe be excluded - but that's the only one of the entire group who would have me actually "sweating" the bet.

Being a 'scratch' golfer doesn't mean you're expected to shoot par.

Golf handicaps are not set up that way. It means that if you have a good to great day you would shoot par. A scratch golfer is only statistically supposed to shoot par or better less than 1/3 of the time. Assuming the slope/rating is average.

~rc
 
BRKNRUN said:
Hmmm...Tiger Woods was listed in this thread...(I will back him)


BTW...I would take 4 a side from "almoste everyone" listed in this thread...;)


$100/hole. You've got action. If he beats me every hole I would gladly pay $1800 to play with him.
 
sixpack said:
Being a 'scratch' golfer doesn't mean you're expected to shoot par.

Golf handicaps are not set up that way. It means that if you have a good to great day you would shoot par. A scratch golfer is only statistically supposed to shoot par or better less than 1/3 of the time. Assuming the slope/rating is average.

~rc


Actually...Depending on the course rating you may be expected to shoot better than par to be a scratch golfer...(aka: a 0 handicap)

Quite a bit depends on the course you play and the tees you play from...BTW...I would not personally consider a golfer that carries a 0 handicap (from the up tees) to be a scratch golfer.....(My personal opinion) .....I would "adjust" that opinion if the person is a SR golfer.
 
memikey said:
Forgot to mention.....but it's relevant.......there has always been a bit of misunderstanding around in some golfing circles about what a handicap is intended to fairly represent in terms of ability and this can colour opinions a bit.

Pretty sure our more serious golfers on here already know but just in case any casual golfers are in doubt.....your handicap is supposed to reflect not your best score nor your average score....but the score you shoot when you play quite well and have a "good" round of golf.

Sorry Mikey, I didn't see this before I posted. But yeah, what he said!

There is a lot of confusion about it. When I was a low single digit handicap and I played with friends, having a few beers and shot 81, they'd be like "How the hell can you be a low handicap and shoot a 81?" Then I'd have to explain it to them.

In the US, it's your best 10 of your last 20, adjusted for 'whacky' scores. So, for example, if you're a 4 handicap and you shoot an 8 on a par-5 hole, it gets lowered to a 6. In addition, they do some more manipulation on the best 10 so that it works out to less than 1 in 3 times to shoot your handicap or better. I'd have to look up exactly what it is now, but I remember that 1 in 3 number.

Cheers,
~rc
 
chris bartram said:
John Schmidt is the best golfer pro pool player that there is... Anyone willing to stake any other pro pool player versus him let me know..John shot 76 or 77 from 7600 at the TPC Virgina Beach course with wet fairways and no roll thats impressive..nation wide tour played there AND I AM PRETTY SURE WINNING SCORE FOR 4 ROUNDS WAS AROUND PAR OR OVER PAR....didn't witness his round but was told about it...He has a swing like a pro golfer its nice..

johnny is good..earl is good..putnam thinks he is good haha...kim decent .. corey decent but john is the best...

NO PRO POOL PLAYER IS A + HANDICAP AND THAT IS A FACT... a scratch golfer means you can tee it up anywhere and shoot in the 60's although a few of them can occassionally shoot a low score they are not scratch golfers..

1. You don't say when but it could be that your memory is playing tricks with you Chris. The annual Nationwide Tour Event at TPC Virginia Beach was The Virginia Beach Open. Between 2000 and 2006 nobody won it with a worse score than -11. In 2006 the distance from the tips at the event was 7432 and the winning score was -20.

2. Being a scratch golfer does not mean "that you can tee it up anywhere and shoot in the 60's", being a pro golfer doesn't even mean that.

3. Once you have reached a very low handicap "having a swing like a pro" is certainly "nice"......but has less bearing than some might think as regards how well you actually score. Edit....should have added a "thank god" here:)


Not in any way having a go at John, far from it, as he will know. We have talked about golf several times in the past. Just clearing up one or two things you brought into the frame:)
 
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BRKNRUN said:
Actually...Depending on the course rating you may be expected to shoot better than par to be a scratch golfer...(aka: a 0 handicap)

Quite a bit depends on the course you play and the tees you play from...BTW...I would not personally consider a golfer that carries a 0 handicap (from the up tees) to be a scratch golfer.....(My personal opinion) .....I would "adjust" that opinion if the person is a SR golfer.


the most important thing in determining a handicap is the tees you play from and the slope rating. Someone that averages 75 from the up tees at the local muni will have a higher handicap than someone that averages 82 from the back tees at a tougher course. A handicap system also takes the top 10 scores from a given range of scores over a monthly period. So, lets say I play from the back tees at a championship golf course with a rating of 72 and a slope of 142. I could shoot 72,72,74,74,74,74,76,76,76,76,80,80,80,80,82,82,84,84,88,88 and my handicap index would be 1.8 . Even though I've only shot two scores better than my index and my average score is 78.6.

Conversely, I could play from the white tees with a rating of 67 and a slope of 115 and shoot the same scores and my handicap would be 6.9.
 
corvette1340 said:
the most important thing in determining a handicap is the tees you play from and the slope rating. Someone that averages 75 from the up tees at the local muni will have a higher handicap than someone that averages 82 from the back tees at a tougher course. A handicap system also takes the top 10 scores from a given range of scores over a monthly period. So, lets say I play from the back tees at a championship golf course with a rating of 72 and a slope of 142. I could shoot 72,72,74,74,74,74,76,76,76,76,80,80,80,80,82,82,84,84,88,88 and my handicap index would be 1.8 . Even though I've only shot two scores better than my index and my average score is 78.6.

Conversely, I could play from the white tees with a rating of 67 and a slope of 115 and shoot the same scores and my handicap would be 6.9.



Right...The jist of what I was getting at though is there are some people that can play very well from the up tees...

Say for example a guy plays from the up tees with a course rating of 68 and shoots the enough the combination of scores (with enough 68s) to get a 0 handicapp...The other guy that plays from the back with a course rating of 72 shoots enough 72s to get a 0 handicapp.....both carry a 0 handicapp card...Likely the guy that always plays from the up tees won't be able to maintain a 0 handicap from the back because they have only mastered using the shorter irons...

Interestinly though...I have also seen golfers that actually shoot worse scores from the up tees than they do from the back tees...

Kind of similar in a way to players that only play bar box vs 9-foot...or 9-foot vs bar box.
 
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