Best Machine Ever. :-)

[pdcue]

No, you made a statement and I challenged it - and no you have dodged the question several times.

I mean seriously what do you think wasn't clear about my question?

Otherwise you are just blowing hot air.

I am trying to get to the bottom of your assertions about my original statement. Do I need to quote it again for you?

Not that I really care - but I find it amusing to watch you continue to dodge having to explain your assertions.

You are sounding a lot like the weavers in "The Emporer's New Clothes".

Hot air...
You've made 1004 posts claming to want to talk about your straw man
while running away from the real issue.

What bothers you is that I read much too well.

Dale

 

[manwon]

This thread should be deleted it has served no purpose and it continues to waste bandwidth!!!!

 

[John Barton]

Hot air...
You've made 1004 posts claming to want to talk about your straw man
while running away from the real issue.

What bothers you is that I read much too well.

Dale

What is the real issue then in your opinion?

What bothers me is that you continue to make statements like you did just now but you won't make a clear statement of what the "real issue" is.

I don't think that you do read too well. Nor do I think you write well. I certainly don't think that you debate well. It's a good thing I am not in the market for a cue or I might make a false assumption that you can't make a cue well either due to your seeming lack of reading, writing, and comprehension.

However you could put all that to rest and simply come out and tell all of us who aren't smarter than pipe wrenches what you think that the "real issue" is.

Again, not that I truly care, but you are still twisting like PlasticMan so it's amusing to see what you will come with next. "Straw man" was new for you, did you pick that one up off Wikipedia?

If not then may I suggest you put your great reading skills to work and learn about what a "straw man" is? Here you go, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I will give you a hint, when you say this, "Hot air...
You've made 1004 posts claming to want to talk about your straw man
while running away from the real issue."

Then "real issue" is the straw man here. Not that you needed to know this with your superior reading skills and telepathic abilities.

 

[John Barton]

This thread should be deleted it has served no purpose and it continues to waste bandwidth!!!!

It has served the purpose of fostering debate over an interesting question.

Who are you to determine that what everyone has written serves no purpose?

Don't you think that writing such a post in a thread that you believe serves no purpose is the real waste of bandwidth?

Again, do you have anything at all to say about the original question?

 

[bdcues]

I guess John must be done with his book on sensitivity.

 

[John Barton]

I guess John must be done with his book on sensitivity.

No, halfway through it. I am sensitive too you know. Just tired of Dale making accusations without clarifying them.

I wasn't too harsh was I?

Sorry Dale, my apologies, I shouldn't make fun of you.

 

[Jr's Farm]

Mud wrestling

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

John, if your questions were posted for the sake of discussion, that would be one thing, but when they're posted solely for the sake of debate it gets tiring. Even if the debate on the original topic isn't bad enough you have to debate everything that pops up. Clearly you like to debate, and with your thread topic it's clear what it's intent was all along. No amount of convincing otherwise is going to change that perception among many here either.

This whole thread is so derailed that any further discussion on the original topic is impossible and therefore this thread needs to die a quick and merciful death. At the very least it should be moved to the non-pool related portion of the forum where it belonged in the first place.

Frank

 

[manwon]

Like I said this trolling thread truly serves no purpose, you can wrap it anyway you wish Big Guy, but the truth is plain to see by the responses you have received.

But, I suppose it did serve one purpose, at least everyone who has tried to read it knows what your intent was and exactly where your coming from. So you right Big Guy I was certainly wrong, it did serve a very important purpose after all!!!!!

 

[manwon]

What is the real issue then in your opinion?

What bothers me is that you continue to make statements like you did just now but you won't make a clear statement of what the "real issue" is.

I don't think that you do read too well. Nor do I think you write well. I certainly don't think that you debate well. It's a good thing I am not in the market for a cue or I might make a false assumption that you can't make a cue well either due to your seeming lack of reading, writing, and comprehension.

However you could put all that to rest and simply come out and tell all of us who aren't smarter than pipe wrenches what you think that the "real issue" is.

Again, not that I truly care, but you are still twisting like PlasticMan so it's amusing to see what you will come with next. "Straw man" was new for you, did you pick that one up off Wikipedia?

If not then may I suggest you put your great reading skills to work and learn about what a "straw man" is? Here you go, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I will give you a hint, when you say this, "Hot air...
You've made 1004 posts claming to want to talk about your straw man
while running away from the real issue."

Then "real issue" is the straw man here. Not that you needed to know this with your superior reading skills and telepathic abilities.

Now that is the John we all know and love, up on his soap box proclaiming how deep thinking he is!!!!!!! Now that is some funny shit!!!!!!!!:grin:

 

[John Barton]

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

John, if your questions were posted for the sake of discussion, that would be one thing, but when they're posted solely for the sake of debate it gets tiring. Even if the debate on the original topic isn't bad enough you have to debate everything that pops up. Clearly you like to debate, and with your thread topic it's clear what it's intent was all along. No amount of convincing otherwise is going to change that perception among many here either.

This whole thread is so derailed that any further discussion on the original topic is impossible and therefore this thread needs to die a quick and merciful death. At the very least it should be moved to the non-pool related portion of the forum where it belonged in the first place.

Frank

Yes Frank, it's clear what the intent was all along because the intent was clearly stated in the opening post.

I just like for people to be clear. You and Dale seem to think that there is some other intention but you either refuse or are unable to articulate hat you think that intention is.

I don't really understand however why you feel it's neccesary to jump in on this since it's a conversation now between Dale and I. You can elect to not read the thread if it has ceased to provide any value or entertainment for you.

 

[John Barton]

Now that is the John we all know and love, up on his soap box proclaiming how deep thinking he is!!!!!!! Now that is some funny shit!!!!!!!!:grin:

Not very deep thinking. I just didn't know what a straw man was and now I know.

For example when you refuse to talk about the original question and try to make the argument that the topic is invalid because of who brought it up then that is using a straw man to avoid the topic.

Do you have anything to say about the topic of this thread?

 

[John Barton]

Like I said this trolling thread truly serves no purpose, you can wrap it anyway you wish Big Guy, but the truth is plain to see by the responses you have received.

But, I suppose it did serve one purpose, at least everyone who has tried to read it knows what your intent was and exactly where your coming from. So you right Big Guy I was certainly wrong, it did serve a very important purpose after all!!!!!

What was my intent? Where am I coming from?

 

[Jr's Farm]

Yes Frank, it's clear what the intent was all along because the intent was clearly stated in the opening post.

I just like for people to be clear. You and Dale seem to think that there is some other intention but you either refuse or are unable to articulate hat you think that intention is.

You maintain that the intent was.......

If someone in China built a machine that would cut perfect points every time - meaning that your points on your cues would all come out sharp and perfect every time no matter the amount of veneers - would you want one?.

But fail to recall or emphasize this statement.............

I ask this as a follow up to the whole idea that some cue makers "sold out America" by teaching the Chinese what they know.

That is the intent that I, and I believe others proclaim is the underlying intent of this thread. Not about the machine but a strictly a hunting expedition to ferret out hypocrites. It's subtle, but it's there.

As you also admitted to this intent here when JoeyinCali asked this question........

What was the original question again?

To which Dale responded........

As best as I can recall it was

"Why oh why can't I get the external
validation I so desperately seek?"

or sumpin' similar.

Dale<observer of the humane condition>

And you confirmed it with this reply.........

No, it was why do you call people sellouts who teach others how to do things when you turn around and seek knowledge from others?

Not so subtle this time, but that is the intent, underlying or not, that is getting the goat of many members here including myself. Sorry for not making that clear enough for you earlier.

Since this thread popped up when the carcass of the "Chinese are coming" thread was still warm, it was easy to see what the underlying intent was. Sorry if you missed it yourself, maybe you should take a step back and take a closer look at your motives, but it's pretty plain to see for many here. That could tend to explain the cold reception that this thread and yourself are getting, but that's just my opinion. Maybe we should take a vote?

I don't really understand however why you feel it's necessary to jump in on this since it's a conversation now between Dale and I.

Trust me, there is nothing more that I'd like to than not be a part of this conversation, but I felt it appropriate to make it clear that this topic as strayed off course and turned into another pissing match, and thusly has run its course and should be put to bed (or buried 6 feet under as I believe I put it). Besides, it's a public forum. Maybe you should continue your debate in PM's if you wanted privacy.

You can elect to not read the thread if it has ceased to provide any value or entertainment for you.

True enough. Whether or not I choose to read and/or participate in the discussion is a valid point. In fact, I'll just go ahead sign out now. There's really no redeeming value left in this thread anyhow, IMHO.

Somebody just let John have the last word so we can get it over with already

Frank

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Brains? Shouldn't that be the original question? who has brains?

John is smart. Many people on this forum are not. Because of that, John wants to challenge the members here to see who is as smart as he. John likes attention. He likes having people comment on account of his notions. Like a hamster in a cage, we chase the carrot.

Many people live in their little worlds, never having traveled outside their state, yet appear to have 'worldly knowledge'. I'm sure this tickles John to death. John, after all, is an interesting man. Much like this man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2SSZA0CjdQ

 

[manwon]

Not very deep thinking. I just didn't know what a straw man was and now I know.

For example when you refuse to talk about the original question and try to make the argument that the topic is invalid because of who brought it up then that is using a straw man to avoid the topic.

Do you have anything to say about the topic of this thread?

Do you have anything to say about the topic of this thread?[/QUOTE]

John, I suppose I do have something to say but I doubt you will answer the question, but here go's.

John you have personally throughout the years been upset many times by the Copy Right infringement that happens on a regular basis in CHINA. I mean even your own designs have been stolen, copied and sold in the USA and abroad while you were building your Instroke cases in Germany. Now before you say that I am accusing you of design theft, I am not and I have never done so. My question is simple if you hate this type of business practice, why are you becoming part of it by supporting companies who are responsible for stealing designs from cue and case makers. I mean lets face it John, your in bed with these people and directly or indirectly you are involved, so how do you justify this?

Oh and by the way, please keep the response as short as possible, and do not try to deflect the intent of the question, all I want to know is how do you justify supporting and working with these Companies and people. Last John, do not attempt to wave it all of with the wave of your mighty hand, the companies you are doing business with are involved so please be honest and answer the question.

Thanks John

 

[pdcue]

What is the real issue then in your opinion?

What bothers me is that you continue to make statements like you did just now but you won't make a clear statement of what the "real issue" is.

I don't think that you do read too well. Nor do I think you write well. I certainly don't think that you debate well. It's a good thing I am not in the market for a cue or I might make a false assumption that you can't make a cue well either due to your seeming lack of reading, writing, and comprehension.

However you could put all that to rest and simply come out and tell all of us who aren't smarter than pipe wrenches what you think that the "real issue" is.

Again, not that I truly care, but you are still twisting like PlasticMan so it's amusing to see what you will come with next. "Straw man" was new for you, did you pick that one up off Wikipedia?

If not then may I suggest you put your great reading skills to work and learn about what a "straw man" is? Here you go, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I will give you a hint, when you say this, "Hot air...
You've made 1004 posts claming to want to talk about your straw man
while running away from the real issue."

Then "real issue" is the straw man here. Not that you needed to know this with your superior reading skills and telepathic abilities.

Who weould you hire to tell you if an item was of high quality.

I would gladly wager with you on reading, writing and debating prowess,
but I've seen you in action

Dale<who knows how to use Google Groups>

 

[John Barton]

Do you have anything to say about the topic of this thread?]

John, I suppose I do have something to say but I doubt you will answer the question, but here go's.

John you have personally throughout the years been upset many times by the Copy Right infringement that happens on a regular basis in CHINA. I mean even your own designs have been stolen, copied and sold in the USA and abroad while you were building your Instroke cases in Germany. Now before you say that I am accusing you of design theft, I am not and I have never done so. My question is simple if you hate this type of business practice, why are you becoming part of it by supporting companies who are responsible for stealing designs from cue and case makers. I mean lets face it John, your in bed with these people and directly or indirectly you are involved, so how do you justify this?

Oh and by the way, please keep the response as short as possible, and do not try to deflect the intent of the question, all I want to know is how do you justify supporting and working with these Companies and people. Last John, do not attempt to wave it all of with the wave of your mighty hand, the companies you are doing business with are involved so please be honest and answer the question.

Thanks John

Ok, short. You have still not made a comment that addresses the original question. The original question had nothing to do with copyrights or trademarks (not even possible for the hypothetical machine or process anyway). If anything patents would have been a sidebar to the question but you didn't bring that up either. How about posting an answer to the original question as posed and then bringing in the side issues if you like.

P.S. For Dale: Craig's response above is a classic example of using a straw man to answer the question.

 

[John Barton]

Who weould you hire to tell you if an item was of high quality.

I would gladly wager with you on reading, writing and debating prowess,
but I've seen you in action

Dale<who knows how to use Google Groups>

Whatever you want to bet is fine with me. I can guarantee you that my style won't be like yours.

Yours is like this; I don't agree with you because I know something you don't and won't tell you what it is.

I am pretty sure that won't you get you any points in a debate.

Golly, you know how to look up things in Google Groups. Did you go and spend time reading my old posts on RSB. Then you know full well that I have been consistent on this issue for more than a decade.

I am flattered that you would spend time checking me out on GG. Thanks for giving up some of your cue making time researching me. Kind of a bummer that you choose to spend time doing that instead of just debating the question rather than running an inquisition against the questioner.

Speaking of a straw man.........

 

[John Barton]

John is smart. Many people on this forum are not. Because of that, John wants to challenge the members here to see who is as smart as he. John likes attention. He likes having people comment on account of his notions. Like a hamster in a cage, we chase the carrot.

Many people live in their little worlds, never having traveled outside their state, yet appear to have 'worldly knowledge'. I'm sure this tickles John to death. John, after all, is an interesting man. Much like this man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2SSZA0CjdQ

John is not smart. John thinks about things that are brought up in conversation. Statements like so and so sold out the USA by teaching those foreigners to build cues and John asks a general question framed by his own view to stimulate discussion.

I really get very little pleasure out of watching people prostrate themselves with continuing ignorance and personal attacks rather than simply debating the issue.

For those who never get out of the county then it can be easily broken down like this: If you are a pig farmer and the pig farmer in the next county gets a new machine or technique that increases his yield then wouldn't you want it as well?

If you had the new machine or technique would you feel it's your right to share that information for free or for money if you choose to.

 

[John Barton]

You maintain that the intent was.......



But fail to recall or emphasize this statement.............



That is the intent that I, and I believe others proclaim is the underlying intent of this thread. Not about the machine but a strictly a hunting expedition to ferret out hypocrites. It's subtle, but it's there.

Um, I think I made that clear by stating my view in the original post.

As you also admitted to this intent here when JoeyinCali asked this question........



To which Dale responded........



And you confirmed it with this reply.........



Not so subtle this time, but that is the intent, underlying or not, that is getting the goat of many members here including myself. Sorry for not making that clear enough for you earlier.

Getting the goat? Only if you consider yourself to be a person who only wants to take information and technology but never give it.

Since this thread popped up when the carcass of the "Chinese are coming" thread was still warm, it was easy to see what the underlying intent was. Sorry if you missed it yourself, maybe you should take a step back and take a closer look at your motives, but it's pretty plain to see for many here. That could tend to explain the cold reception that this thread and yourself are getting, but that's just my opinion. Maybe we should take a vote?

Well of course but the point remains Frank that I stated what the impetus of the question was as well as my own viewpoint. Can it be any clearer than that?

Trust me, there is nothing more that I'd like to than not be a part of this conversation, but I felt it appropriate to make it clear that this topic as strayed off course and turned into another pissing match, and thusly has run its course and should be put to bed (or buried 6 feet under as I believe I put it). Besides, it's a public forum. Maybe you should continue your debate in PM's if you wanted privacy.

That the topic went off course is no fault of mine. I posed the question. Those that felt hurt by the existence of the question or bothered by the person asking it should have just stayed away and let the people who genuinely want to discuss the topic do so.

True enough. Whether or not I choose to read and/or participate in the discussion is a valid point. In fact, I'll just go ahead sign out now. There's really no redeeming value left in this thread anyhow, IMHO.

Right on. I skip most threads because they hold zero interest for me. So it's pretty evident that when you choose to reply that you are interested on some level. You want your opinion and voice to be heard just as I do.

Somebody just let John have the last word so we can get it over with already

Frank

It's not about getting the last word Frank. It's about people just talking about the topic at hand and stopping the personal attacks.