Best new thing in pool

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I'm casting my vote for: http://www.fargorate.com/

It essentially is a system for accurately recording the skill levels of players from around the world.

This is the curtain that removes some of the unknowns from pool.

Personally speaking I think it will be GREAT for pool.

There are so many features to this exciting new APP that I can't begin to mention them at this point. Check it out for yourself. You may be as impressed as I am.

JoeyA
 
The curtain has been pulled back.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

I like the following which I copied from their website (It was so well written, I only edited 3 letters) :-)

"Most handicapping systems or rating systems are easily manipulated. And such manipulation is a serious problem. A small number of unscrupulous players begin trying to cheat any new system. Then when other players hear about this they feel they need to join in or be played the fool. Soon it becomes an industry. Many of those who make it to national events are those most adept at working the system. The XXX seems to be notorious for this based upon newsgroup discussions. While tens of thousands of people play 8-ball every week, there is another group for which 8-ball is only one of the games they’re playing. The secret rating algorithm depends prominently on inning counts. And any player capable of running out against a weaker opponent is also capable bunting balls around for a couple innings like a cat plays with a mouse, padding the inning count while still winning the game. Making the secret, proprietary formula more complex to try to stem this problem is tempting, but it just fuels the game and the true gamers.

The best way to deal with this problem is to devise a system that is open, transparent, and naturally resistant to manipulation. While the possibility of manipulating the system can never completely be eliminated, the fact that every single game against every opponent contributes to a player’s rating makes that manipulation much more difficult. Also, there are a number of features of the system described here that mitigate the problem. A player generally cannot get intentional losses in the system without paying for them. For example, to enter a double-elimination tournament with the intent of losing two matches comes at the expense of the tournament entry fee. Furthermore if a player does this three tournaments in a row, he or she has squandered three tournament entry fees only to find all that nefarious effort thwarted by a single good tournament, where the player plays six or eight matches rather than the two in the losing tournaments.

The biggest deterrent, though, is a consequence of the players believing in the system, which they do. It is clear after using this system for over five years that the vast majority of players strive for a higher rating. Nearly every 485 wants to be a 500. Nearly every 685 wants to be a 700."

I genuinely believe that Fargo Rate will result in more one on one matches being played. So far their is evidence to support my belief.

All you have to do is look at the matches that PoolActionTv is promoting. I believe that the same will be done in the amateur ranks as Fargo Rating becomes even more popular.

At the U.S. Open 10 Ball event that CSI put on, it was really cool to see as each player won a game, how the chances of them winning the match (described in percentages) would change, live on the monitors.

JoeyA


Totally agree I'm pretty psyched about this.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
 
I agree it's probably the best model for rating/handicapping players.

Question: It sounds as though in order to be rated you need to play in a league-type event. Yes - No?
 
NO. You do not need to play in a league-type event to have your matches included in Fargo Rate. But I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

JoeyA

I agree it's probably the best model for rating/handicapping players.

Question: It sounds as though in order to be rated you need to play in a league-type event. Yes - No?
 
Very interesting..I checked the site and really liked what was shown. How does one go about getting the app as i do not see an option for download any where. Also is it user input?

Excuse me if this has been discussed already elsewhere.

Thanks,
Greg
 
I believe Mike Page said this is similar to ELO (not this favorite band https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvBOZCrJsAI )

If it is then it is awesome cos ELO is the benchmark rating systems in number of sports prominently in chess
If it is like ELO, then the rating becomes more accurate the bigger the population of players that is rated and added to the network.

There are lots of benefits and uses of such ratings eg. to rate tourneys , to qualify players for tourneys. Presumably like in chess, the weaker player will try to beat the stronger player so the weaker can steal more rating points from stronger player. The elite players will try to beat each other so they can get more points cos beating minions will not earn them much rating points. This may wean the top pros away from playing in am/ 7ft tourneys :thumbup:
 
fargorate

This system would be awesome we could all quit practicing at the bars and pool halls and get handicapped! Why get better just get handicapped to play what a nightmare!
Pool should have Pro and two divisions a novice and open with most of the money in upper divisions.
NOVICES or people that play for fun should get paid in fun money. CSI Open division pays 9500 for first, intermediate and master payout a JOKE.
 
Yeah Ozzy Reynolds talked about this on the last American Billiard Radio. CSI is going to have an announcement after these tournaments are over. It will be great to determine odds, for ranking top players, for handicap tournaments and leagues.
 
Greg,

The beta APP is not available to the public but when it is, an announcement will be made. Check back periodically in this thread or at their website for when an APP will be released to the public.

NO, it is not user input.

JoeyA

Very interesting..I checked the site and really liked what was shown. How does one go about getting the app as i do not see an option for download any where. Also is it user input?

Excuse me if this has been discussed already elsewhere.

Thanks,
Greg
 
We have been using this system in WI for at least a couple of years now. Its called mypoolstats, it was developed by Chris Bonde with or with the help of Mike Page. I think most of the people here really like the system. It does not prevent you from playing anyone, I believe it is hard to cheat the system, and it really helps even things up for amateur tournaments. Once you have an established rating, which basically means you have enough games entered in the system it seems to be a pretty accurate skill level rating, not nearly as broad as BCA B, A, AA, & M for example. Your average weekly league players who do not really play tournaments will usually fall in the low to mid 400's, more serious players, guys who frequent tournaments, will usually fall around 500-low 600's, with the top state players in the high 600's to mid 700's. Anyone can win playing a single game but in a race to 5 or 7 there is a pretty good chance the player who is 75-100 points higher will win the race. Usually if you are within 50 points you can play pretty even. Using the BCA B, A, AA etc, there are many times the player with the lower skill level rating is the stronger player.
 
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I was waiting for this post. It appears that you didn't read the information I posted about handicaps or go to the website and read much of anything. That's fine too, but please don't propose things that Fargo Rate is ridding the world of.

The pool world is already full of charlatans, attempting to manipulate the perspectives of those whom they would engage about their skill level. Fargo Rate will help pull back the curtain of deceit.

With your 3 posts in this forum, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that posting is an art (and hope that you aren't just another identity for those who like to stir it up) but one that can be learned. Wishing you the best.

Take some time and consider that this may be the best thing that has happened to pool in decades.

With Fargo Rate, the REAL GAMBLERS will step up to compete fairly. The days of hiding your speed are gone. It has been a long time coming. First, it was the cell phones, then it was the cell phone cameras. The internet has pulled back the curtain.


Perhaps, because of the financial realities, pool is not for you and that I could understand.

JoeyA

This system would be awesome we could all quit practicing at the bars and pool halls and get handicapped! Why get better just get handicapped to play what a nightmare!
Pool should have Pro and two divisions a novice and open with most of the money in upper divisions.
NOVICES or people that play for fun should get paid in fun money. CSI Open division pays 9500 for first, intermediate and master payout a JOKE.
 
NO. You do not need to play in a league-type event to have your matches included in Fargo Rate. But I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

JoeyA

But I do need to play someone else (or someones) who is/are rated so that the Fargo system has something to compare me to, correct? Just trying to figure out The First Step.
 
But I do need to play someone else (or someones) who is/are rated so that the Fargo system has something to compare me to, correct? Just trying to figure out The First Step.

It looks like they've been working with CSI, so if you've played in any of their events or leagues you're probably in there already. Ozzy said that CSI is going to release new tournament and league management software, which will input your numbers into the system when you use it.
 
This system is very interesting. One thing I've always thought would be beneficial to pool woukd be a universal rating/handicapping system like what golf has. I just thought it extremely unlikely to ever have one based on the nature of pool. However this system may be on to something.
 
But I do need to play someone else (or someones) who is/are rated so that the Fargo system has something to compare me to, correct? Just trying to figure out The First Step.

I don't know how this system works but when I played chess 25 years ago competitively I did get starting ELO. Everyone got same starter. Hmm it was actually Finnish Elo(SELO) if I remember right it was 1525. Played couple of years and got my score 1600+
I did win sometimes 2000+ players but those were small miracles. I believe world bests have around 2800. Chessmaster score is somewhere 2200 can't remember.

So to start you could take like 10 players and start everyone from starting number and just play games and it will slowly get to right numbers..

I could be totally wrong because I haven't look Fargo. Just tossing my thought how it should work IMO.
 
I don't know how this system works but when I played chess 25 years ago competitively I did get starting ELO. Everyone got same starter. Hmm it was actually Finnish Elo(SELO) if I remember right it was 1525. Played couple of years and got my score 1600+
I did win sometimes 2000+ players but those were small miracles. I believe world bests have around 2800. Chessmaster score is somewhere 2200 can't remember.

So to start you could take like 10 players and start everyone from starting number and just play games and it will slowly get to right numbers..

I could be totally wrong because I haven't look Fargo. Just tossing my thought how it should work IMO.

Bdorman is right. There is no "seed" rating like you experienced in chess. We have taken the ELO concept a step further, and we do a global optimization every day. Here, for example, are the people we have rated from Finland. We consider a rating to be "established" when the second number (the robustness, i.e., the number of games) is 200 or more. So most of these ratings are preliminary. Of course some will get better after Austrian Open this week...
 
I'm not positive, but I think you will have to play in an event in which the scores are recorded or monitored by Fargo Rate.

To get started you could play in the China Open for example. :D

Seriously, there are many events, all over the world that you can play in where your scores will be recorded but I believe until you have at least 200 games under your belt (under Fargo Rate), your rating might not be as accurate as it should be.

Derby City Classic, BCA National Championships are two big events that will be recorded for Fargo Rate, at least to the best of my knowledge.

JoeyA
But I do need to play someone else (or someones) who is/are rated so that the Fargo system has something to compare me to, correct? Just trying to figure out The First Step.
 
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