best player ever?

[sjm]

That's nonsense. What determines a winning percentage is how well the table in particular is breaking. When guys are running 5 and 6 packs, how does Pat Flemming's percentage figure in? Sinking a ball and getting position on the lowest numbered ball is not the only advantage from the break. Another huge advantage is having control of the table. If you've got no shot, play a good safe, or push out to something you might fire in, but your opponent might not be the favorite to make. That's pretty ideal, but it's another advantage.

I'm very familiar with Pat's analysis, done more than ten years ago, and have discussed it with him. He did indicate that the breaking player won just over 52% of the racks. It should be noted, however, that the analysis was based on play observed on tight equipment (meaning 4 1/2 inch corners). In the same analysis, Pat determined that "a pro in dead stroke" (his words, not mine) will break and run roughly three out of every ten racks.

Pat agreed that on even slightly looser equipment, the break becomes a significant advantage in men's pro pool.

 

[sharandrew]

JIMMY CARAS

Hey was low keyed and played less then the other big named playes. They still talk about him from when he came to town in the 70's as better then Willie. The old timers will say even better than Efren & Sigal

 

[drivermaker]

JIMMY CARAS

Hey was low keyed and played less then the other big named playes. They still talk about him from when he came to town in the 70's as better then Willie. The old timers will say even better than Efren & Sigal

Forget it...not because he was or wasn't...it doesn't matter what player of another era you mentioned. You'll NEVER get a younger individual of today to believe that it could have been true, just like with all sports.

 

[sharandrew]

Forget it...not because he was or wasn't...it doesn't matter what player of another era you mentioned. You'll NEVER get a younger individual of today to believe that it could have been true, just like with all sports.

great point!!! The young players have no clue who is or isn't the best ever. It is only relevant to their world the here and now. Some of their fathers weren't even born when Caras was great. Jimmy Caras was the original "Boy Wonder" at ,I think age Nine.

 

[ajrack]

Lindrum...

FL RESPONDS;
billfishhead
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: nw fla
Posts: 141

Probably the greatest player who ever lived. His records and his victories are so Hugh they are hard to believe. Virtually unknown in this country. He was from Oz, down under. No worries mate, this bloke has a serious claim even to take the top #1 spot.

(2) Walter Lindgrum Australia

...JUst a slight mis-spelling>>it should be "Lindrum"...

 

[Rickw]

I agree that young players usually only recognize the players of today but if they understand that back in Ralph Greenleaf's day, pool tables were all 5X10, the pockets were much tighter than they are today and the balls were not perfectly round like they are today, I think they will have some appreciation for what kind of talent Ralph must have had.

 

[hemicudas]

I agree that young players usually only recognize the players of today but if they understand that back in Ralph Greenleaf's day, pool tables were all 5X10, the pockets were much tighter than they are today and the balls were not perfectly round like they are today, I think they will have some appreciation for what kind of talent Ralph must have had.

Couldn't agree more, Rick. Except, it's not just the young players of today. I grew up in the Buddy, Mike, Miz era and could only compare today's players to them. I thought Buddy was the best 9 ball player ever, at one time but like you say, I never saw Greenleaf play. Saw Mosconi after his prime.

Point being, as I said, you are soooo right. You can never tell. I never saw anyone play "All Games" as well as Efren but how many did I never see?

 

[cheeserider]

I have a book that has stats. going back to the 1850's. It lists collegiate and open tournament players records up until about 1959 or so. I'll dig it out and post some interesting stats. for ya's.

This book is not just billiards either, it has stats for just about any sport imaginable. I've never seen another like it that goes back that far.

 

[LastTwo]

great point!!! The young players have no clue who is or isn't the best ever. It is only relevant to their world the here and now. Some of their fathers weren't even born when Caras was great. Jimmy Caras was the original "Boy Wonder" at ,I think age Nine.

Well it's easy for us to get confused when we hear most of the old timers say that the players of today play better than the players of the past ever did.

 

[Jimmy M.]

Best all-around? You'd have to give it to Efren. For the cash? Efren again-it's a no-brainer. But the best 9-ball TOURNEY player?

I would have agree that I probably wouldn't bet on anyone against Efren playing 9-ball or one-pocket (especially one-pocket) if they're gambling. As far as best 9-ball tournament player? I can't say he's the best tournament player EVER, but I think Mike Sigel was the best to come along in the last 30 years or so (and he's been retired for the last, what, 10 of those?). The guy's win percentage once he reached the finals was pretty incredible in itself. I don't know what the stats are, but I'd like to see how many 2nd place finishes he has vs. 1st place finishes.

 

[Rude Dog]

I don't know what the stats are, but I'd like to see how many 2nd place finishes he has vs. 1st place finishes.

If my memory serves me well, it was three 1st places and the two 2nd place finishes when you beat him at the Biltmore in L.A.

 

[Jimmy M.]

If my memory serves me well, it was three 1st places and the two 2nd place finishes when you beat him at the Biltmore in L.A.

That's right. I remember that.

 

[crawler486]

Of all the great players you people have mentioned....
can you mention a single one that became a millionaire
playing pool?

I can only think of Efren Reyes.

And by the way..who is Fast Larry?
Is he the dominant member of "The Three Stooges"?

Peace

 

[Top Spin]

- Greenleaf becuase of his legend. I'm too young to have seen him play. but the books I have read equate him to the second coming...
- Mosconi for his notoriety, his technical success in "The Hustler" and his astronomical, record high run in straight pool.
- Steve Davis, because he is current and a 6 time world snooker champion. (A game which, IMO, is more difficult to master than pool.)

 

[Jimmy M.]

great point!!! The young players have no clue who is or isn't the best ever. It is only relevant to their world the here and now. Some of their fathers weren't even born when Caras was great. Jimmy Caras was the original "Boy Wonder" at ,I think age Nine.

If you put it like that, it isn't just us young players who don't have a clue - it's none of us. None of us have been alive long enough to have seen ALL the greats. Everyone gives an opinion based on what they have witnessed. I doubt you are old enough to have seen Greenleaf in his prime (is anyone?), so again, if you put it like that, it isn't just the young players who have no clue.

 

[mjantti]

I would have agree that I probably wouldn't bet on anyone against Efren playing 9-ball or one-pocket (especially one-pocket) if they're gambling. As far as best 9-ball tournament player? I can't say he's the best tournament player EVER, but I think Mike Sigel was the best to come along in the last 30 years or so (and he's been retired for the last, what, 10 of those?). The guy's win percentage once he reached the finals was pretty incredible in itself. I don't know what the stats are, but I'd like to see how many 2nd place finishes he has vs. 1st place finishes.

I've read somewhere that Earl Strickland has about .700 record on winning the major tournament finals. But, the only player who has a better record is Mike Sigel... it is around from .750 to .800. Also, Nick Varner had a nice record... around the same with the Pearl.

 

[Rickw]

I've watched Efren in person quite a few times up in Reno and I think one ot the things that makes him great in my mind is not only his phenominal stroke but his great attitude. I think the attitude helps him because he's not hung up on his ego and that helps him to relax and just shoot the best he can. Earl is a great player but if he could relax just like Efren and let the game just flow from him, he'd probably be even better than he is. I think a lot of players could learn from this too. Easy to say, difficult to do. Efren just does it naturally.

 

[LastTwo]

Grady Mathews and Billy Cress both said and I quote: "The players of today are much better all-around players than the players of the past." They then elaborated on how the players of today have much stronger breaks, they have much more powerful strokes, and are much better at kicking at balls when they are hooked. I guess I still don't have a clue, right?

 

[kennyratt]

BEST PLAYERS Mr. Luther LASSITER

Im going to give two players this time. Im going to say Efren Reyes and Luther lassiter.

K. CUEBALL, YOU ARE ON IT.One thru nine ; Break and run!!! Luther Lassiter and Efren Reyes. Kennyratt

 

[Sargo]

The past cannot learn from the present/future. The present and future can learn from the past. Advantage: Presen/Future players. Works in anything basically.