Best thing to *ever* happen in pool?

Jimmy M.

Insomniac
Silver Member
One of the articles on the IPT website refers to the IPT as the "biggest and most exciting pool circuit in the history of the sport", which really made me wonder if this is entirely true or not. This isn't a bash the IPT thread, so I hope no one takes it that way. I'm really curious since, at 33, I haven't been here to see the entire "history of the sport". I am under the impression that, as you go back in pool's history, there weren't many tournaments. So, in that regard, this probably is the "biggest and most exciting 'pool circuit' in the history of the sport". Aside from the small number of tournaments, did pool ever have a heyday to speak of? I've seen some film from the 60's at the Johnson City tournament, and the place really seemed crowded. The male spectators, most of them anyway, appeared to be wearing suits and most of the ladies were wearing nice dresses. It seemed like a totally different crowd from what we're used to seeing in modern times. Were pool players ever household names in this country? How about all the way back to the days of the depression? Maybe even further back. Was there ever a time when a pool player might walk down the street and be recognized? Any pool historians out there? Where's George Fels when we need him? :)
 
Pool as a "sport" has been stagnating here in the States. From reading this forum, I believe today that it has been and still is a cultural thing. The Philippines and other Asian countries have always viewed pool quite differently than we Americans do. Many European top guns have emigrated to the States because it is thought there are more opportunities for pool players to be all that they can be. Women players from all over the world have come to America because of the opportunities available to lady pros. Yet, as we all know, pool has been and still is stuck in the mud.

I won't clutter up this response with a detailed description of the politics which has thwarted pool as a sport in the U.S., but due to greed and personal gain, those in charge many times did NOT have the players' interests in mind. Rather, they reaped the benefits to fill their own DEEP pockets, leaving few crumbs for players to receive any financial gain. I have been told by a reliable source that at a major event in New York City, it cost more to rent out Grand Central Station than the total prize purse for the event, and the playing conditions were difficult. I still wonder WHY the BCA holds an "invitational" open each year with only a $15,000 first-place prize purse when some of its employees are earning six figures annually.

It is a glaring fact that the payouts pre-IPT were the same monies as in the '70s, '80s, and '90s. Yet, as we all know, the cost of living has skyrocketed. It is difficult for a pool player to travel mega miles to a competition and can only hope to break even if he/she comes in third or fourth place. The week-long events are brutal on the pocketbook, often costing upwards of $2,000 to attend an event in its entirety. For an aspiring player who is hoping to turn pro, try doing that once a month and you'll go broke.

I never attended the high-profile events from years ago, but from what I have heard, Johnson City and Tahoe are worthy of top honors as far as competitive tournaments.

Fast forward 20-plus years, and the IPT enters the pool scene. Each player who came to see the King of the Hill Shootout in Orlando was completely awe-struck by the layout, and, of course, the tournament payout of a million-dollar purse was history in the making. The IPT has given some pool players, at least the ones I know and have talked to, a new sense of pride and hope. Eddie Kelly gave counsel to Keith at Orlando by saying, "Keith, grab this opportunity with the IPT while you can still play. I only wish something like this would have come along 20 years ago."

The IPT is hoping to attract a large TV viewing audience as opposed to filling up the bleachers at an event, as it used to be with Johnson City and other legendary tournaments. Whether it can do so here in America is a big question mark. However, the IPT's approach to filming its events is to utilize state-of-the-art technology. As well, there is a whole slew of topnotch professionals who bring their expertise to the table in their given fields. I had NEVER heard of a green room for pool players until Orlando, where the players were treated like the professionals that they are.

I think we are all entering a new frontier, and pool, THANKFULLY, at least here in the United States, will never be the same again. I truly believe with all my being that every single one of us will benefit, whether a railbird, a fan, a player, an industry member, or a vendor.

In sum, it's not about filling up the stands as much as it is about raising pool to a higher platform via the broadcasting of the various events. Time will tell if this is the right approach. JMHO, FWIW!

Picture of Keith and Eddie Kelly. What a delightful gentleman! He currently hangs his hat in Las Vegas where he is gainfully employed as a card dealer.:)

JAM
 

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Jimmy M. said:
One of the articles on the IPT website refers to the IPT as the "biggest and most exciting pool circuit in the history of the sport", which really made me wonder if this is entirely true or not. This isn't a bash the IPT thread, so I hope no one takes it that way. I'm really curious since, at 33, I haven't been here to see the entire "history of the sport". I am under the impression that, as you go back in pool's history, there weren't many tournaments. So, in that regard, this probably is the "biggest and most exciting 'pool circuit' in the history of the sport". Aside from the small number of tournaments, did pool ever have a heyday to speak of? I've seen some film from the 60's at the Johnson City tournament, and the place really seemed crowded. The male spectators, most of them anyway, appeared to be wearing suits and most of the ladies were wearing nice dresses. It seemed like a totally different crowd from what we're used to seeing in modern times. Were pool players ever household names in this country? How about all the way back to the days of the depression? Maybe even further back. Was there ever a time when a pool player might walk down the street and be recognized? Any pool historians out there? Where's George Fels when we need him? :)


Johnston City I believe paid around $1000. first place per event and an additional amount for the all around. It lasted for weeks and no one left with any money unless you won it gambling. The BCA U.S. Open straight pool tournaments paid something like $4000. for first and you had to run around trying to win a qualifier to even play. Most all players lost money on the tournament. You would have to go back to the first quarter of the 20th century to find anything that could be called a heyday for pool.
 
I've read that Greenleaf made as much money as Bebe Ruth, but that was over 20 years before I was born, so I can't say I remember it.

If I limit my analysis to pro pool in the 1970's and on, which I did see up close, the most lucrative tour prior to the advent of the IPT was the Camel tour of the late 1990's. At it's best, the Camel tour had 16 events that were each 100,000 added, and Camel supplemented the prize fund with a bonus fund of 300,000, paid out based on year end ranking, with the top player earning a bonus of 60,000. Hence, the Camel tour, circa 1997, was roughly a 2,000,000 added tour.

In short, the IPT is the biggest thing to ever hit pool, and if it delivers in the way that KT has projected, the IPT will transform our sport.
 
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sjm said:
I've read that Greenleaf made as much money as Bebe Ruth, but that was over 20 years before I was born, so I can't say I remember it.

I was really curious about that era (and even before) in particular. I'm somewhat familiar with the history of the game since the 70's. I started playing in 1984/85 (I was 12 or 13) and, of course, all of the guys then would talk about what had happened in previous years which wasn't too far away from the 70's at that time. I wasn't really questioning the IPT's claims. It's just that their claims made me wonder if there really ever was a time when pool players in this country would have been considered celebrities or made money that was comparable to what players of other sports earned in their respective era.
 
the hey day of pool in the united states was from 1870 to 1910. the biggest year ever was 1895, in that year, if you were a champion you would have won $5000 for the win! that is equivelant to $500,000 in 2006 u.s. dollars!! also, back in those days the scores from billiard tournaments were on the front page of the new york times!! there were billiard cards lighters, and songs!! if you were a pocket billiard professional you were considered to be the biggest thing in entertainment/sports. yes, jimmy, 1895 was the highlight for billiards in the u.s., and then sadly what killed it off was fathers telling their sons in the 1930's "son, don't ever let me catch you in one of those dirty smoke filled pool halls, ya hear?" pool gained a reputation of cheats hustlers crooks. the depression got many a pool shark scamming on the last of the rich folk, making pool a "dirty" sport. thus, today people view golf and baseball because it's clean and wholsome. well, with the ipt that's all gonna change, viewers at home in the u.s and abroad will see clean cut well groomed pool players, and pool will be elevated to golf status, with a little of the poker personality coming through.
 
Jimmy M. said:
What is called "puffing" in the real estate industry?
I don't know what jjinfla was referring to, but here's some answers courtesy of google:

PUFFING - An opinion not made as a representation of fact, but intended to enhance the value of the property.

Puffing: Non-factual or extravagant statements and opinions made to enhance the perceived desirability of a property. The is a fine line between legal puffing and illegal misrepresentation, and puffing is best avoided. An example of puffing would be, "This home has the best view in the city".

puffing:
Exaggerated or superlative comments or opinions not made as representations of fact and thus are not grounds for misrepresentation, such as, "This property is a real good buy." One test used is whether a reasonable person would have relied on the statement. A statement such as, "The apartment has a fantastic view, " is puffing because the prospective buyer can clearly assess the view for himself or herself, whereas a statement such as "The apartment has a fantastic view of the lake," when in fact all its windows face the street, would be misrepresentation.
 
SPetty said:
I don't know what jjinfla was referring to, but here's some answers courtesy of google:

PUFFING - An opinion not made as a representation of fact, but intended to enhance the value of the property.

Puffing: Non-factual or extravagant statements and opinions made to enhance the perceived desirability of a property. The is a fine line between legal puffing and illegal misrepresentation, and puffing is best avoided. An example of puffing would be, "This home has the best view in the city".

puffing:
Exaggerated or superlative comments or opinions not made as representations of fact and thus are not grounds for misrepresentation, such as, "This property is a real good buy." One test used is whether a reasonable person would have relied on the statement. A statement such as, "The apartment has a fantastic view, " is puffing because the prospective buyer can clearly assess the view for himself or herself, whereas a statement such as "The apartment has a fantastic view of the lake," when in fact all its windows face the street, would be misrepresentation.


Ahh okay. Got it. :)
 
sjm said:
I've read that Greenleaf made as much money as Bebe Ruth, but that was over 20 years before I was born, so I can't say I remember it.
I've heard the same, only it was Hoppe. I'd like to know if there is any truth to it.

Tracy
 
Snapshot9 said:
embellishing with my generation.

Well, in my generation I've heard the word "puffing" used for something ENTIRELY different (no, not drug related), but I don't care to explain for fear of "the man" coming down on me. :eek: :D ;)
 
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