Best Time To Buy a Cue at the Derby
- Thread starter Tommyd1
- Start date
I agree with JV on this one.....as I've lost a few killer cues over the last year by waiting a touch too long. He's right.....if you're a big fan of a particular cue, you can bet the farm on the fact that someone else thinks it should be theirs, too.classiccues said:Lets say you go to a booth and you find a cue you really, really like. You hem and haw, and cannot cut a deal at that moment. You think to yourself, I will come back and get that cue when he has a little more time into it. This works only on the non-hot commodities, and stuff thats priced a little high. Because if the cue is hot, ala Searing, SouthWest, White/Mottey, Tascarella, Hercek there is a high probability that the cue will not be there when you return. Because if YOU like it, bet your last dollar that someone else will like it. That person may not hesitate. I cannot tell you in the many years at the VF show I have heard, "damn I should have bought that cue when you had it." It's the second most heard phrase to "what will you take, cash". BTW these are the same two phrases I hear from the internet sales also.
Chances are if its on the not-hot or production list, you will have some time.
Always remember "chance favors the packed wallet" or something like that..
JV
If you have funds in hand...and are happy with the purchase, then it's better to seal a deal while the gettin's good. Otherwise, you'll spend ALOT of time wishing you had taken the leap when you hand the chance.
cornerstone said:what my point is,lets say somone comes to jv wanting to buy a KURCHESKI for 1800 (let us say 1/2 profit) and brings a pinnical cue maker like Richard Black (his Bushka) let us say 1900.00 and offer 1/2 on trade. so the buyer ponys up 850.00 plus his bushka.THAT IS WRONG AND UNFAIR!!!joe has been taking shots at me since I started,3 years ago he said I wuold fail and be another one of the many that come and go. Well here is what I say "LEAD ,FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY" In the next 3 years we will make it a point to have the very best cues by the WORLDS BEST makers and provide the very best service and the Highest trade in on desireable cues! so that is where we standand it is all up to the consumer to pick where they would like to bring there cues for a trade or sale!have a nice day martin
Now Bill, why would you go to an extreme like that. Of course a trade for an unknown doesn't work the same way. I gave an example of a Black vs an equal cue. Of course I would expect you to know that. Sometimes thats my largest fault, giving people the benefit of the doubt.
Now any pot shots you feel I take, its for two reasons, a; you constantly perpetuate rumors that are unfounded, and b; (I can't mention without opening a large can of worms) You fail to remember we deal with a lot of the same people, so when you make asinine statements, 95% of the time they come back to haunt you.
JV
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Just to show "market value"
A custom version of the Bushka cue sold recently on ebay for 1600.00 Retail on the model according to Richards website is 2050.00 The custom version appeared to have very light play, 95% condition. PLUS had extra inlays. Had this version come to the booth, IMHO it would get about 1100 / 1200 dollar trade in, +/-. 3 years ago or so I sold a refinished Bushka model for 1200. So a logical conclusion could be said that this cue on the secondary market in this condition is 1600 + / -. IMHO it's undervalued, but is probably good due to the market.
So if a dealer takes the cue in and makes 400, he is in good shape. IMHO. BTW if you're doing the math, its 20% under retail. It's also not a good comparison when trying to justify a pre-owned cue vs a new cue.
JV
A custom version of the Bushka cue sold recently on ebay for 1600.00 Retail on the model according to Richards website is 2050.00 The custom version appeared to have very light play, 95% condition. PLUS had extra inlays. Had this version come to the booth, IMHO it would get about 1100 / 1200 dollar trade in, +/-. 3 years ago or so I sold a refinished Bushka model for 1200. So a logical conclusion could be said that this cue on the secondary market in this condition is 1600 + / -. IMHO it's undervalued, but is probably good due to the market.
So if a dealer takes the cue in and makes 400, he is in good shape. IMHO. BTW if you're doing the math, its 20% under retail. It's also not a good comparison when trying to justify a pre-owned cue vs a new cue.
JV
My experience
I have had the best luck with Cueaddict boys. I usually buy/trade with them every year. (yes, every year). I have bought cues from them and sold them later for a profit, not loss. (yes it was a Richard Black).
I buy a cue, usually cash deal with Richard Minton (812) 723-4152. He, sells too cheap and I just cant walk away from his deals. He usually only has 10-20 cues though and buy the time the show is over, they arent the same cues he started with. So definately look him up. Over the years I have bought new Gina, used Mottey, and a Rambo from him.
I sold a Mottey cue to the Brianna guy. No fuss, no cuss, he just bellied up and paid cash. WAYYY TOO EASY.
Shureman is a great guy, and I would do a deal with him if he had something I wanted, he always wanted to just buy my cues but I PREFER trading to selling.
I bought a Gilbert Jump/Break from Joe Salazar years ago, but havent been able to buy or work a deal with him since. Thats okay, doesnt make him a bad guy in my book.
But the big deal last year verses previous years THE DEALERS DEMANDED/WANTED FULL SIZED SHAFTS !!
So if you have full sized shafts for the cue, it was pretty easy, if you have one of a million Southwest that I saw last year with pencil sized shafts, prepare to take your lumps.
JMO
Ken
I have had the best luck with Cueaddict boys. I usually buy/trade with them every year. (yes, every year). I have bought cues from them and sold them later for a profit, not loss. (yes it was a Richard Black).
I buy a cue, usually cash deal with Richard Minton (812) 723-4152. He, sells too cheap and I just cant walk away from his deals. He usually only has 10-20 cues though and buy the time the show is over, they arent the same cues he started with. So definately look him up. Over the years I have bought new Gina, used Mottey, and a Rambo from him.
I sold a Mottey cue to the Brianna guy. No fuss, no cuss, he just bellied up and paid cash. WAYYY TOO EASY.
Shureman is a great guy, and I would do a deal with him if he had something I wanted, he always wanted to just buy my cues but I PREFER trading to selling.
I bought a Gilbert Jump/Break from Joe Salazar years ago, but havent been able to buy or work a deal with him since. Thats okay, doesnt make him a bad guy in my book.
But the big deal last year verses previous years THE DEALERS DEMANDED/WANTED FULL SIZED SHAFTS !!
So if you have full sized shafts for the cue, it was pretty easy, if you have one of a million Southwest that I saw last year with pencil sized shafts, prepare to take your lumps.
JMO
Ken
Tommyd1 said:
Tommy, to answer your question, I would suggest:
a) If you are talking about wanting to buy (outright) a cue that is in premium demand (SW, Tascarella, Searing, etc.), then I would say the first weekend. Like some have stated, when you are talking about the stuff that's in premium demand, "cash is king" and lots of time, somebody else will snatch what you want up before the end of the show. Trade offers for these type of cues early on in the show probably won't be much to your liking.
b) If you are taslking about buying a cue that is not one of those in premium demand, then the second weekend would be best. Dealers may want to blow something like that out for cash before they leave. More than likely that's when you would get your strongest trade value, too, depending on whether you trade up or down.
If you are strictly talking trading, then if you Bushka is super clean with full shafts, you should expect to get somewhere around $1000-$1500 for it in trade. Depends a lot on whether you are trading up or down and for what, as well. We've sold several of this exact model but never one for close to full retail. They always seem to bring around $400-$500 less than retail on the secondary market. Richard is a legendary cuemaker and makes a nice stick but the truly custom ones are generally the better movers vs. his line cues, when you are considering secondary market sales vs. retail (new from him). It's pretty hard for dealers to offer you much more when refinishing and/or new shafts must be done to make the cue marketable. Most dealers will know these things and will try to work off a 10-15% margin when considering an offer.
This has turned into a very interesting topic. Hope this info helps...Sean
cornerstone said:
cornerstone said:
cornerstone said:
Bill, just what exactly do you mean by these statements. I'm sensing a little hostility on your behalf directed at Joe and Charley's humorous exchange. "THE OLD WAY".....are you saying that you have never given someone 50 cents on the dollar for a trade ?? perplexed....
cueaddicts said:
I think the real answer is if you really ,really ,really... want a certain cue you see than losing a few hundred really doesnt matter as long as the cue your dealing for is going to make your day. There arent too many cues in this market that are bringing in more than retail anyway and the dealers travel to these shows and spend lots of money hopping to have a good turnout. Some of these dealers do it also to collect some cues themselves and not always for the buck.I have done deals with Joe and Bill and there both great people to deal with,if I dont like what there offering and cant live with it then I dont do it,there not putting a gun to my head
.Part of the enjoyment going to these events is just being able to admire some of the cues they have aquired,I've come to realize you just cant have every cue you see. Richard Black makes a nice cue and the bushka models are really a nice cue for the money,dont forget you may trade this cue for a plain high end cue with a big name and then say to your self you should have keep the black.Sometimes certain cuemakers are hot and then 12 months later there not so just make sure that what you deal for is what you want.I didnt mention Joe in my original post because I dont think Joe sets up at the derby. Dealers arent there to rip you off,there provide a great service and could you imagine how boring these tournaments would be with out them
cuedoctor said:I think the real answer is if you really ,really ,really... want a certain cue you see than losing a few hundred really doesnt matter as long as the cue your dealing for is going to make your day. There arent too many cues in this market that are bringing in more than retail anyway and the dealers travel to these shows and spend lots of money hopping to have a good turnout. Some of these dealers do it also to collect some cues themselves and not always for the buck.I have done deals with Joe and Bill and there both great people to deal with,if I dont like what there offering and cant live with it then I dont do it,there not putting a gun to my head
Tap,Tap,Tap...rep points for you!
Nice post and perspective on the proverbial cue hunt. As much as I like the DCC for the events, action, characters, etc, it just would not be the same without the vendors.
post up some pics when you can!
chris
chris
Thank You Tommy
.because of people like you we have already sold 18 cues and it is only the 3rd day!! P.S . your bushka black is a wonderful cue! it will make somone elses dream. Thank you for your time and purchase!and i will give you stronger money on your hercek trade when you ever want to get out of it!NO SCAMMING JUST FAIR DEALS! THANKS BILL SORRY JOE
Tommy it is always a pleasure to make new friends with people that love the sport and cues! It makes my day to help make it easy to get your dream cue.if you have great Quality cues Ican give alot more than50% trad in, I guess that is why buis is soo good.I hope i didnt hurt your feelings giving you 35% more than some dealers would attemptTommyd1 said:
.because of people like you we have already sold 18 cues and it is only the 3rd day!! P.S . your bushka black is a wonderful cue! it will make somone elses dream. Thank you for your time and purchase!and i will give you stronger money on your hercek trade when you ever want to get out of it!NO SCAMMING JUST FAIR DEALS! THANKS BILL SORRY JOE
cornerstone said:Tommy it is always a pleasure to make new friends with people that love the sport and cues! It makes my day to help make it easy to get your dream cue.if you have great Quality cues Ican give alot more than50% trad in, I guess that is why buis is soo good.I hope i didnt hurt your feelings giving you 35% more than some dealers would attempt
What the hell you saying sorry to me for???? 85 cents on the dollar is a lot better than what you were going to give Jeff on a Black that YOU sold him. Tom sounds like he is happy... congrats to him.. jeez I know you are obsessed with me, but damn, you keep mentioning my name we are going to start talking about using a Sharpie on a Gus to clean it up.
JV
classiccues said:
Wonder what ever happened to that Gus ?? Damn that WAS a nice cue.
cornerstone said:
I met the guys from connerstone billiards and all i can say, top notch guys .And they had the most amazing cues in the show.I hope one day to get a Rich Black Ii saw one that was the nuts.It was about $9500.
And that bill webb cue with ebony forearm.SWEET " If u guys don't move that cue will u take payments on it ..????? I had a great time .And they also picked up the new line of Carolina Custom Cues.. Nice work. On the CC cues.
Cornerstone Rocks .
Thanks guys .for talking with me..
It was a pleasure talking with you also and those carolina custom cues are tight,and a ton of bang for the buck.if any one is looking for a great player they ar jam up!!thecure said:I met the guys from connerstone billiards and all i can say, top notch guys .And they had the most amazing cues in the show.I hope one day to get a Rich Black Ii saw one that was the nuts.It was about $9500.
And that bill webb cue with ebony forearm.SWEET " If u guys don't move that cue will u take payments on it ..????? I had a great time .And they also picked up the new line of Carolina Custom Cues.. Nice work. On the CC cues.
Cornerstone Rocks .
Thanks guys .for talking with me..