best way to hit straight-in out ball?

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I'd hit a stop shot with the tip as low as I can shoot it.
This sounds like preferring to hit the same CB spot and vary the stroke speed for different distances - as opposed to hitting the same speed and varying the CB spot. This tradeoff choice has been discussed recently somewhere here.

I do the same (hit the same spot at different speeds) because I feel that I can be more precise with different stroke speeds than with different tip placements to get the same CB action at the OB.

YMMV

pj
chgo
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hi fran, I certainly feel like I'm amongst fine pool minds, yours included!
allow me to rephrase so that we might benefit from your knowledge

say we're playing eight-ball and I'm on the eight
I have a straight-in shot to win the game
I want to make it
the table is level and the cloth and balls are decent, don't need to worry there

where do I hit the cue ball?
top, bottom, center, etc.
and with what speed?

and I'm curious about different scenarios re: where the cue ball and object ball are
i.e. long shot, short shot, cue ball far away from object ball, up close, etc.
if there is any difference in the way you would hit it then?

hopefully that makes more sense

Thanks for clarifying. I get it now.

Backspin. Always. The goal is a stop shot. Joey wrote as low as possible.I agree. Backspin will allow you to use the least amount of speed required to stop the cb, but enough to to hold the line. If the balls are close, then you have to aim slightly higher but always below the equator line.
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks for clarifying. I get it now.

Backspin. Always. The goal is a stop shot. Joey wrote as low as possible.I agree. Backspin will allow you to use the least amount of speed required to stop the cb, but enough to to hold the line. If the balls are close, then you have to aim slightly higher but always below the equator line.

thanks fran
so I get that backspin controls the cue ball
prevents an accidental scratch, etc.
and it throws the object ball forward(?)
are those the reasons you recommend backspin
or ?
is it about "holding the line"?
please explain that more, if you can
thanks again
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...backspin ...throws the object ball forward(?)
Backspin doesn't "throw the OB forward"; it puts a tiny amount of forward rotation on the OB, which helps it attain "natural forward roll" a little faster (and slide a little less). Stop shots don't do that, because, although they start out with backspin, they have none left (they're sliding) at the moment of contact with the OB.

The sole purpose of backspin in your scenario is to stop/slow the CB after contact so it won't follow the OB into the pocket.

But, as has been said before, if the CB is sliding when it reaches the OB, then any accidental side spin on the CB will produce a little more than usual throw on the OB. So it's a tradeoff, sometimes unavoidable.

pj
chgo
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Backspin doesn't "throw the OB forward"; it puts a tiny amount of forward rotation on the OB, which helps it attain "natural forward roll"

thanks pat- is there no technical term for this?

and fran, would still like to hear back from you, when you get a chance

thanks again..sean
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Transferred spin is the general term. Transferred spin and throw are two effects of the same ball/ball friction - they’re more visible with side spin.

pj
chgo

thanks pat
trying to get this right

an object ball cannot be "thrown" if there is no side spin

but spin can be "transferred"- ?
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
an object ball cannot be "thrown" if there is no side spin
When a CB without spin hits an OB at an angle the OB is thrown by the surfaces rubbing against each other, the same as with spin. The same rubbing friction simultaneously transfers a little side spin to the OB.

spin can be "transferred"- ?
Yes, either "spin induced" or "collision induced" or a combination.

pj
chgo
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
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Silver Member
When a CB without spin hits an OB at an angle the OB is thrown by the surfaces rubbing against each other, the same as with spin. The same rubbing friction simultaneously transfers a little side spin to the OB.

right..I should have been more clear tho
I get that when balls collide at an angle there is throw
but when the shot is straight-in
and the cue is delivered to the cb without sidespin (top or bottom ok?)
then, the cue ball is transferring spin to the object ball
but is not "throwing" it- ?
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
right..I should have been more clear tho
I get that when balls collide at an angle there is throw
but when the shot is straight-in
and the cue is delivered to the cb without sidespin (top or bottom ok?)
then, the cue ball is transferring spin to the object ball
but is not "throwing" it- ?
When there’s no sideways rubbing (as in a straight shot with no side spin), then there’s no throw or transferred spin. The two always go together.

pj
chgo
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
When there’s no sideways rubbing (as in a straight shot with no side spin), then there’s no throw or transferred spin. The two always go together.

pj
chgo

ok gotcha
I thought there was some distinction coz earlier we were talking about backspin
on the straight-in shot
and that backspin put natural roll on the object ball
so I thought the difference was that for a ball to be "thrown," there had to be an angle
but if the cb was struck with backspin, on the center cb axis, we could instead call that
"transferred spin"

terminology aside, I feel like I'm understanding the concept of spin better
obviously there's no substitute for hitting a million balls
but talking about, and meditating on this information, has been helpful!
thanks again
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
ok gotcha
I thought there was some distinction coz earlier we were talking about backspin
on the straight-in shot
and that backspin put natural roll on the object ball
so I thought the difference was that for a ball to be "thrown," there had to be an angle
but if the cb was struck with backspin, on the center cb axis, we could instead call that
"transferred spin"

terminology aside, I feel like I'm understanding the concept of spin better
obviously there's no substitute for hitting a million balls
but talking about, and meditating on this information, has been helpful!
thanks again
Yes, as said earlier, technically top or bottom does transfer a tiny amount of follow or draw onto the OB - not enough to really matter, gone pretty much instantly and can be ignored.

pj
chgo
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
wrong post
 

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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
thanks fran
so I get that backspin controls the cue ball
prevents an accidental scratch, etc.
and it throws the object ball forward(?)
are those the reasons you recommend backspin
or ?
is it about "holding the line"?
please explain that more, if you can
thanks again

To me, it's the most efficient way to shoot a stop shot. Minimum speed without having to roll the ball and highest ball pocketing percentage due to the reduced speed (as opposed to hitting center ball and harder).
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To me, it's the most efficient way to shoot a stop shot. Minimum speed without having to roll the ball and highest ball pocketing percentage due to the reduced speed (as opposed to hitting center ball and harder).

gotcha
thanks for checking back fran
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
been playing with a cue more forward-weighted the past few days
I seem to not only be more accurate on long (straight-in) pots
but I have less trouble getting the cue ball to "stop" on impact
pretty interesting
can this be explained scientifically, or is more a "feel" thing? or both?

I use an open bridge..could the weight distribution be helping my cue stay on line during my stroke? or ?

cheers-
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
been playing with a cue more forward-weighted the past few days
I seem to not only be more accurate on long (straight-in) pots
but I have less trouble getting the cue ball to "stop" on impact
pretty interesting
can this be explained scientifically, or is more a "feel" thing? or both?

I use an open bridge..could the weight distribution be helping my cue stay on line during my stroke? or ?

cheers-
Feel.

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I use an open bridge..could the weight distribution be helping my cue stay on line during my stroke? or ?

cheers-
For me a rear-weighted cue with an open bridge doesn't feel comfortable.

Here's something for you to think about that may or may not be related: Some of the best open-bridge players in the world press the cue stick firmly down onto the bridge hand when shooting power draw shots. And they don't seem to be doing it with their wrists or grip hand.
 

The ProRailbird

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For me a rear-weighted cue with an open bridge doesn't feel comfortable.

Here's something for you to think about that may or may not be related: Some of the best open-bridge players in the world press the cue stick firmly down onto the bridge hand when shooting power draw shots. And they don't seem to be doing it with their wrists or grip hand.



How can you tell?


How else can it be done?

pj
chgo

Yes Bob, please do tell?

"And they don't seem to be doing it with their wrists or grip hand."

Are they using their chin?
If only their 2 hands are thouching the cue using an open bridge, the stroke hand/wrist is the only one that could press down on the cue....seams like?
 
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