Best Way To Play This Shot?

[briandlau]

I don't know man. I've seen plenty of "impossible" shots pulled off, and I definitely wouldn't call this one impossible, but it is asking a whole lot of yourself and the felt. For a while I played quite a bit on GCIV's with 760 on them, and I might have been able to pull this shot off on those tables because they were lightning fast, and the side spin took like crazy. On those tables, you could shoot this shot fairly softly:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3HWMd1PIAB3cWMd2cdxC1kIAB3kUYm3kbeW4kbHL4kCrj3kbgx1kadg1uCES@

and still get around the table using mostly spin. You'd break your wrist trying that on most of the tables I play on now.

Good luck!

and the shot in your diagram can be done fairly easily as well. i mean, it's not something you'd see from a D player but a C player might be able to pull this off if they saw the shot with or without a coach.

 

[briandlau]

Sorry, after re-reading my post, I think I came off too harsh. Nobody can achieve pinpoint accuracy on these diagrams, but this just happens to be one of those shots where a couple of inches here or there can make a HUGE difference. With the position of the balls, the three-railer going forward just isn't an option for most people, so it kind of changes the situation altogether.

Love your situational questions, though. Keep 'em coming.

which is why i suggested a three railer with low inside. the low inside will give you a better angle to get the position you're looking for. i agree that follow will not get to where the OP is asking.

 

[briandlau]

Perhaps I'm way off here. Like I said, I do much better when I'm playing the shot myself than when I'm trying to coach someone to play the same shot. I may have to set this shot up tonight before my league match. Assuming the speed isn't the issue, the path of which the cue travels would be the safest bet to avoid any scratches and obstacles.

 

[Aaron_S]

which is why i suggested a three railer with low inside. the low inside will give you a better angle to get the position you're looking for. i agree that follow will not get to where the OP is asking.

I didn't say using follow, I said going forward. Anything that follows the yellow line is going forward regardless of how you spin it .

I love your shot and I use it all the time, I just wouldn't use it here. The two-rail draw shot takes about half as much skill, and it works on most of the equipment you'll find out there. I don't mind if you shoot it going forward, though. Everybody has their preferences.

Good luck!

 

[BRKNRUN]

Shot A - The 1-Ball is too far away from the rail for a comfortable three railer....If the table conditions were right it could be shot fairly easily with BHE......But from my oberservation that little extra distance off the rail can have some major effect on the way the shot (angles) comes off. (If the 1-ball is closer to the rail the 3-rial becomes much easier)


Shot B - I would not tend to shoot it this way. Again my observation is that the pace required to go two rails would shorten the angle off the first rial and risk a scratch in the side pocket.....and/or the CB would tend to "flatten" off the second rail and I feel you would end up froze to or hooked by the 9-ball)


In short...I am with Hal on this one..I would draw one rail and pick a spot on the rail that clears me past the 9-ball.

 

[lewdo26]

Shot A - The 1-Ball is too far away from the rail for a comfortable three railer....If the table conditions were right it could be shot fairly easily with BHE......But from my oberservation that little extra distance off the rail can have some major effect on the way the shot (angles) comes off. (If the 1-ball is closer to the rail the 3-rial becomes much easier)


Shot B - I would not tend to shoot it this way. Again my observation is that the pace required to go two rails would shorten the angle off the first rial and risk a scratch in the side pocket.....and/or the CB would tend to "flatten" off the second rail and I feel you would end up froze to or hooked by the 9-ball)


In short...I am with Hal on this one..I would draw one rail and pick a spot on the rail that clears me past the 9-ball.

I don't understand how the angle would flatten out in route B if the CB is going to reverse off that second rail. Please explain.

The way I see it, there are two options. A conservative option, which is to play to be on that second rail or near it where I could at least play safe on the two. And a agressive option which is what DCP describes as route B. Looks doable to me.

 

[Aaron_S]

I don't understand how the angle would flatten out in route B if the CB is going to reverse off that second rail. Please explain.

It's really hard to describe, but haven't you ever noticed on shots like this when you hit the second rail the cueball spins weird for a second and curves a little. I've always called it "turning over" because it kind of looks like all of the spin flip-flops and causes angle to change dramatically. You really have to watch out for it on position shots like this and on Z kicks and banks because you never get what "geometric common sense" tells you you should get.

 

[lewdo26]

It's really hard to describe, but haven't you ever noticed on shots like this when you hit the second rail the cueball spins weird for a second and curves a little. I've always called it "turning over" because it kind of looks like all of the spin flip-flops and causes angle to change dramatically. You really have to watch out for it on position shots like this and on Z kicks and banks because you never get what "geometric common sense" tells you you should get.

So far what I've observed is that the angle shortens off the second rail rather than flattening out. Unless we're talking about shallow angles when the CB has a tendency to spread.

I'll defer to you and keep an eye on this mystery. Thanks a lot.

 

[briandlau]

I didn't say using follow, I said going forward. Anything that follows the yellow line is going forward regardless of how you spin it .

I love your shot and I use it all the time, I just wouldn't use it here. The two-rail draw shot takes about half as much skill, and it works on most of the equipment you'll find out there. I don't mind if you shoot it going forward, though. Everybody has their preferences.

Good luck!

touche

 

[Eric.]

forgive me for the diagram, i just meant to give the general idea of the high right shot, thats all. i wasnt trying to use pin point celestial mechanics on the high right line when i drew it up, so sorry.

DCP

A little testy, Tom?


Eric >j/k

 

[bruin70]

if you're layout is correct and the 5 is not in the way, i agree with hal. position b at the bottom-left of the table is the simplest. if the position is there, don't make it complicated. although i like your position to get to the 3,,,,getting to the 2 your way might get screwed by the 4.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I would shoot shot A (3 rails) because there is less chance of scratching in either the bottom side pocket or in the upper left corner. There is also a greater margin for error in shot A. The most important thing is what you are comfortable with. Many players are not comfortable with inside English and this lowers their probability of success.

 

[unknownpro]

I don't understand how the angle would flatten out in route B if the CB is going to reverse off that second rail. Please explain.

The way I see it, there are two options. A conservative option, which is to play to be on that second rail or near it where I could at least play safe on the two. And a agressive option which is what DCP describes as route B. Looks doable to me.

On new, slippery cloth, the cueball will slide like crazy off that second rail. That's why I hate new, slippery cloth, especially the cheap napped stuff they're trying to bring back now.

The three railer is easy on well worn simoniz rails. If y'all can't make it then you ain't using enough inglesh, lol! I've got to start playing more... that's a near 100% shot for me, position included, although I'd play for the rail a little above A.

unknownpro

 

[pete lafond]

Is that a challenge to anyone or just to DCP, lol? It's a hanger.

unknownpro

I think they are talking about the average shooter. I understand that the 3 rail shot is a very good one because you can cause the CB to come back long or short.

 

[rackmsuckr]

OK, to me, the option to follow with Rt. english is scary, it looks like it would not hit that path, but end up more towards a scratch, or running into the 6 and the draw is goofy too. I would hit the 1 just a titch left off center and firm so that whitey would be nearer to the 5, send the 1 on the path outlined, so that it is down by the 2 and hooked behind the 5. If you can snug it near the 5, you will probably take the jump away. Then with BIH, you will have an easier runout.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I don't understand how the angle would flatten out in route B if the CB is going to reverse off that second rail. Please explain.

The way I see it, there are two options. A conservative option, which is to play to be on that second rail or near it where I could at least play safe on the two. And a agressive option which is what DCP describes as route B. Looks doable to me.

I can't explain the science behind it. The spin on the CB (when struck at pace to travel the distance for shot A) has what I term as "kill" english...(aka inside english) .......Typically you would think that this would "shorten" the angle...but for whatever reason the "kill" not only slows the ball off the second rail but it seems to make the ball come off the rail "flat"....(it may only be a perception from the slowing off the second rail)......The only reason I mention this is because I have tried shots like this (in the past) and found myself either hooked by or froze to the 9-ball.......(of course no one is requred to agree)

My only real concern with Shot B is coming up short or long (based on the 1-ball being off the rail)...I would need to see the "actual" layout to judge.

Even if B is "on"...I would still opt for the 1-rail draw under the 9-ball.....I would tend to think you could control the speed of a 1-rail draw vs a three rail follow/inside english shot......

Using English to control distance (shot B) can be very touchy......(especially when your end point is going accross the target line)

JMO

 

[Aaron_S]

So far what I've observed is that the angle shortens off the second rail rather than flattening out. Unless we're talking about shallow angles when the CB has a tendency to spread.

I'll defer to you and keep an eye on this mystery. Thanks a lot.

I'm not sure, but we may be using different terms to describe the same thing, lol. Here's a depiction (probably a little exaggerated) of what I'm talking about.

CueTable Help

 

[Snapshot9]

Right on ...

I would play to position B. I know the 9ball is in play and will possibly block my shot, but I don't care. I'd do it anyway.

Although Hal and I root differently in Basketball <grins>, we agree on this
shot. Keep in mind that the cue can skid a little coming off Hal's 2nd rail
bringing it more in line with the 2 or even a little below it, but you definitely want some angle (either above or below) for getting on the 3
ball next ....

 

[Bob Jewett]

which way do you posters think is the best way to get position on the '2' Ball? would you prefer high right? or low left?

...

I tried the shot last night on a 9-foot GC3 with tiny pockets, month-old cloth and a light cue ball. Both left and right work. I could consistently get to the 2nd diamond from the left end by either path (the side-rail diamonds even with the foot spot in the diagram). This means there was no reason to shoot the B path in the diagram since I could leave the cue ball on the other side of the 2.

I was far more consistent with the outside draw shot.

 

[briandlau]

I played this shot last night as well and was able to get to the upper rail just past the 3rd diamond using low inside and going 3 rails. not a lot of speed was needed. i also agree with Hal that draw left back to the bottom rail would also work.