Anyone had this problem before? I'm hitting the cueball straighter than ever, and getting really good backspin, but my force follow seems weaker. I used to be able to send the cueball into the short rail and make it back down table fairly easy, but it seems like I'm having to put way too much power into the stroke to get the same results. I'm guessing my old stroke used to have some elbow drop or something that resulted in the tip giving more topspin, but idk.
Better stroke seems to have led to less effective force follow
- Thread starter longhorns2
- Start date
BBB is 100% correct.
The reason behind it is straightforward. The cue ball will pick up natural roll the longer is slides across the felt. The amount of slide prior to object ball impact comes from two things: 1) How far is the cue ball from the object ball, and 2) How firm you are striking the shot.
If you are shooting softly or from a distance you can get full follow without cueing very high because the table will have the chance to get the cue ball rolling without any special effort on your part.
When you are close to the object ball or shooting with a firm swing, the cue ball slides across the felt to the object ball so quickly the table doesn't have time to help it get rolling. In these cases you really do have to cue very high on the cue ball to ensure it is rolling right off the tip.
My guess is that as you are stroking more fully you are getting more power and that is actually preventing the table from 'helping' get the cue ball rolling. The diagnosis is spot on. Cue higher and watch your cue ball zip!
(This mistake is often made when people have ball in hand and line up a follow shot from a foot behind the object ball. They are close and underestimate how high they will have to shoot to follow with speed.)
The reason behind it is straightforward. The cue ball will pick up natural roll the longer is slides across the felt. The amount of slide prior to object ball impact comes from two things: 1) How far is the cue ball from the object ball, and 2) How firm you are striking the shot.
If you are shooting softly or from a distance you can get full follow without cueing very high because the table will have the chance to get the cue ball rolling without any special effort on your part.
When you are close to the object ball or shooting with a firm swing, the cue ball slides across the felt to the object ball so quickly the table doesn't have time to help it get rolling. In these cases you really do have to cue very high on the cue ball to ensure it is rolling right off the tip.
My guess is that as you are stroking more fully you are getting more power and that is actually preventing the table from 'helping' get the cue ball rolling. The diagnosis is spot on. Cue higher and watch your cue ball zip!
(This mistake is often made when people have ball in hand and line up a follow shot from a foot behind the object ball. They are close and underestimate how high they will have to shoot to follow with speed.)
One way to force yourself to hit higher on the cue ball is to place the cue ball near the cushion and bridge with your cue stick resting on the rail (standard rail bridge). Unless you start jacking up, you will hit the cue ball high.
A good stroke has a few factors to it.
First is the knowledge of exactly the spot on the cueball it needs to be struck to get the action you want.
Second is the intention to strike that exact spot. Watch a pro address the cue ball with their tip. They are signaling and affirming the intention to hit an exact point on the cueball, not some vague zone high-ish or low-ish on the ball.
Third is the ability to deliver the cue to that exact point on your final delivery. Not accidentally a little higher or accidentally a little lower. And that needs to hold up when you hit it a soft or you hit it firm.
There are some aspects people focus on because they contribute to the success of that THIRD aspect. A good follow through, m a loose grip and staying down on the shot only serve to make sure you don’t introduce any unnecessary muscle tension and body movement that causes you to accidentally hit somewhere other than where you intended.
But given the way the question is phrased, I suspect the real issue is that you neither are satisfying the FIRST nor the SECOND aspect. Without knowing where to precisely strike and the intention to only strike exactly that, your stroke delivery is meaningless. You have no way to know when you’re getting it right or getting it wrong. Your feedback loop is all messed up. It’s impossible to have a good stroke with draw but not force follow. Inconsistency is the definition of a bad stroke. And the root cause of what you’re troubleshooting is mental.
Fix that (get laser focused on your intention) and the physical part starts catching up...quickly. At first it’s hard because you’re building a new ability (extreme intention). As you first build it, it’ll tax your brain and you’ll play worse. Stick with it and your brain will adapt to the strain and it’ll start being able to maintain that extreme intention with no effort at all. It’ll become second nature to always know where the tip is contacting the cueball.
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First is the knowledge of exactly the spot on the cueball it needs to be struck to get the action you want.
Second is the intention to strike that exact spot. Watch a pro address the cue ball with their tip. They are signaling and affirming the intention to hit an exact point on the cueball, not some vague zone high-ish or low-ish on the ball.
Third is the ability to deliver the cue to that exact point on your final delivery. Not accidentally a little higher or accidentally a little lower. And that needs to hold up when you hit it a soft or you hit it firm.
There are some aspects people focus on because they contribute to the success of that THIRD aspect. A good follow through, m a loose grip and staying down on the shot only serve to make sure you don’t introduce any unnecessary muscle tension and body movement that causes you to accidentally hit somewhere other than where you intended.
But given the way the question is phrased, I suspect the real issue is that you neither are satisfying the FIRST nor the SECOND aspect. Without knowing where to precisely strike and the intention to only strike exactly that, your stroke delivery is meaningless. You have no way to know when you’re getting it right or getting it wrong. Your feedback loop is all messed up. It’s impossible to have a good stroke with draw but not force follow. Inconsistency is the definition of a bad stroke. And the root cause of what you’re troubleshooting is mental.
Fix that (get laser focused on your intention) and the physical part starts catching up...quickly. At first it’s hard because you’re building a new ability (extreme intention). As you first build it, it’ll tax your brain and you’ll play worse. Stick with it and your brain will adapt to the strain and it’ll start being able to maintain that extreme intention with no effort at all. It’ll become second nature to always know where the tip is contacting the cueball.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
And you are sly enough to ask a question without asking a question.
BBB is actually LLL but all the ells were taken. Really.
i am just another player like youAnd you are sly enough to ask a question without asking a question.
BBB is actually LLL but all the ells were taken. Really.
thats trying to get better.....
i am a student of the game and unfortunately cant execute what i know
but i am improving....
Here's what that looks like.
To get full natural roll right off the tip you need to hit at 4/5 of maximum follow - the blue line in the pic. Anything below that and there will be some sliding before full natural roll is achieved.
You can hit a little above that before the miscue limit (top black line), but any added top spin is small and wears off quickly.
pj
chgo