BHE challenge.

[pete lafond]

I've had a bad day. I had people call me a lier and idiot all at once and coupled with being away from everything I love. All of you people out there better be DAMN appreciative of what your service members go through to safeguard your freedoms.

I was called a lier because when I was a kid, Tai the elephant lived at my ranch for a couple of years while her owner was trying to get her into show business after getting her out of the circus. She ended up being pretty successful, made larger than life, dumbo drop and george of the jungle. I told some people that I work with and they called me a lier. I came up to the computers for the main reason of writing to her owner and asking if he could send me a verification that she lived at my ranch.

Then I was called an idiot, because I said that low gas prices being bad for america was the stupidest thing I ever heard. The guy was claiming that lower gas prices will cause americans to become gluttons at driving, causing supply to dwindle. I said that's idiotic because we live in a market economy and the prices will balance themselves out, and to think that they should stay high for the soul purpose of keeping them high is asinine. They didn't agree with me and thought that I was calling them simple minded, so they said that I was an idiot and a lier. Sorry I replied like I did, it was just out of frustration over my intelect never being appreciated.

No problem and I'm sure things are going to get better. Just enjoy pool, it's that simple.

 

[onepocketchump]

Pete,
What you are talking about is true for all shots with side english.

Back Hand English is really an aiming system, but as side english is involved, he effects of OB throw and Swerve need to be taken into account.

Backhand English is not an aiming system. It is a method of applying spin to the cueball after the shooter lines up rather than lining up with the tip position before the shooter puts his bridge down.

There are dozens of aiming methods that allow the shooter to essentially line up the cueball and the object ball along the correct line to make the object ball with center ball. It is with these methods that BHE works best.

Personally, I find that BHE works with just about any bridge length. As long as I don't do something weird in my delivery the shots go in.

I find that that BHE eliminates the need to worry about throw and swerve. Of course throw and swerve don't disappear but I think that with BHE it becomes easier to instinctively adjust as needed.

I have taught about a dozen people various aiming systems combined with the use of BHE over the last four years and seen their comprehension and games jump up dramatically. It's like being freed from deflection jail when they don't have to adjust on every shot.

John

 

[Colin Colenso]

I've had a bad day. I had people call me a lier and idiot all at once and coupled with being away from everything I love. All of you people out there better be DAMN appreciative of what your service members go through to safeguard your freedoms.

I was called a lier because when I was a kid, Tai the elephant lived at my ranch for a couple of years while her owner was trying to get her into show business after getting her out of the circus. She ended up being pretty successful, made larger than life, dumbo drop and george of the jungle. I told some people that I work with and they called me a lier. I came up to the computers for the main reason of writing to her owner and asking if he could send me a verification that she lived at my ranch.

Then I was called an idiot, because I said that low gas prices being bad for america was the stupidest thing I ever heard. The guy was claiming that lower gas prices will cause americans to become gluttons at driving, causing supply to dwindle. I said that's idiotic because we live in a market economy and the prices will balance themselves out, and to think that they should stay high for the soul purpose of keeping them high is asinine. They didn't agree with me and thought that I was calling them simple minded, so they said that I was an idiot and a lier. Sorry I replied like I did, it was just out of frustration over my intelect never being appreciated.

As a keen economics enthusiast, I know exacctly how frustrating that can be. Best to assume everyone is a economics idiot, as basically they are educated under the goverments child prison socialist indoctinational centers and mainstream media socialist indoctrination schemes. So it's not easy task to convince the average joe of how such matters actually play.

So take it easy and just worry about improving your own knowledge. You cannot lead horses to water they don't want to drink.

 

[Jaden]

Thanks for that.

As a keen economics enthusiast, I know exacctly how frustrating that can be. Best to assume everyone is a economics idiot, as basically they are educated under the goverments child prison socialist indoctinational centers and mainstream media socialist indoctrination schemes. So it's not easy task to convince the average joe of how such matters actually play.

So take it easy and just worry about improving your own knowledge. You cannot lead horses to water they don't want to drink.

It made me laugh and lightened my spirits. It's mostly the liier thing that pisses me off the most. If I was a civilian I would have knowkced him out for calling me a lier. I hated that, for a long time because my life has been so varied in it's short length, coupled with looking abnomrally young for my age that people often think I'm lying about sh$t when I'm just telling the truth about something that's relevent to whatever conversation is going on at the time.

For a long time I didn't even realize that people thought I was a lier. You don't realize when things that seem normal to you because of the happenstances in your life that other people doubt what is abnormal to them even though you take it for granted because it happened to you.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Backhand English is not an aiming system. It is a method of applying spin to the cueball after the shooter lines up rather than lining up with the tip position before the shooter puts his bridge down.

There are dozens of aiming methods that allow the shooter to essentially line up the cueball and the object ball along the correct line to make the object ball with center ball. It is with these methods that BHE works best.

Personally, I find that BHE works with just about any bridge length. As long as I don't do something weird in my delivery the shots go in.

I find that that BHE eliminates the need to worry about throw and swerve. Of course throw and swerve don't disappear but I think that with BHE it becomes easier to instinctively adjust as needed.

I have taught about a dozen people various aiming systems combined with the use of BHE over the last four years and seen their comprehension and games jump up dramatically. It's like being freed from deflection jail when they don't have to adjust on every shot.

John

Hi John,
I say BHE is an aiming system because it does not produce english any differently than parallel english. I've given diagrams and made arguments about this in the past here. I've met some disagreement, but never a good argument against it, so far as I can interpret.

I call it an aiming system becuase that is the value I see in it. It is a useful way in setting up alignment for playing shots with side english.

I've said befor it should be called the BHE Aiming System, rather than just BHE.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I am not that scientific about how I aim or how I stroke because most of what I do is based from experience and feel. So each time I add a comment, I have to mentally put myself in different situations which I'm sure greatly limits the possible variables.

Given this I would like to add that there are "digital" and "analog" players (my attempt at seeing the difference). Both may be equals at achieving the same goals. I however am towards the "analog" side of things because there exist nothing absolute except for the point of the back of the OB I intend to hit to that portion to the back of the pocket. How I get there depends on what I plan to do; make it a bigger pocket and/or positioning the CB. As I have stated before, there are many variables just table to table based upon general conditions and it is these things that deserve "feel" consideration especially when dealing with tighter pockets, or expect misses.

I think this topic is a great attempt to define the "digital" side of things which is very interesting and important to know.

Hey Pete,
You know I'm a computerized digital robot....never satisfied until I have formularized the last variable

 

[sixpack]

I've had a bad day. I had people call me a lier and idiot all at once and coupled with being away from everything I love. All of you people out there better be DAMN appreciative of what your service members go through to safeguard your freedoms.

I was called a lier because when I was a kid, Tai the elephant lived at my ranch for a couple of years while her owner was trying to get her into show business after getting her out of the circus. She ended up being pretty successful, made larger than life, dumbo drop and george of the jungle. I told some people that I work with and they called me a lier. I came up to the computers for the main reason of writing to her owner and asking if he could send me a verification that she lived at my ranch.

Then I was called an idiot, because I said that low gas prices being bad for america was the stupidest thing I ever heard. The guy was claiming that lower gas prices will cause americans to become gluttons at driving, causing supply to dwindle. I said that's idiotic because we live in a market economy and the prices will balance themselves out, and to think that they should stay high for the soul purpose of keeping them high is asinine. They didn't agree with me and thought that I was calling them simple minded, so they said that I was an idiot and a lier. Sorry I replied like I did, it was just out of frustration over my intelect never being appreciated.

Jaden,

I understand where you're coming from. You are right about the price of oil, it will work itself out. I have a Master's degree in resource economics, i.e. the study of energy markets - and there is so much disinformation and spin out there that I get frustrated all the time trying to explain things to people who are just repeating spin that they've heard from whatever political propoganda sources they follow. It's gotten to the point where I don't even like to talk about it much anymore. People who don't understand just shout you down, then become insulted and think you're calling them stupid when you try to logically show them how their position is incorrect. I guess what I'm saying is: I feel your pain.

I look forward to you getting out of there and setting the pool world ablaze.

Cheers,
RC

 

[recoveryjones]

The reason for using the aim and pivot or BHE is to be able to impart spin for CB control while still being fairly certain of being able to make the shot.

Aim and Pivot(also called Tuck and Roll)and BHE aren't the same thing. They are simuliar, however,applied differently.

With BHE you aim to cut in a shot(no english) normally. Once you've established that aim, you then pivot the backhand (while keeping the bridge hand still) to a point on the cue ball for the desired english you want to apply.Once that desired english is set, you then stroke down that NEW line and Voila!!! the english takes.

Aim and Pivot is a much more co-ordinated movement and it takes practice.Applying outside english seems really easy to me, however, rolling to apply inside (For me) is something I'm still working on.

With Aim and pivot you line up to shoot a ball in with no english. In the middle of the delivery stroke you either roll out or tuck in to swoop across the cue ball to either apply varying degrees of inside and outside english. Buddy Hall explains (and shows) this method of english delivery in his "Clock System" video.Bert Kinister also exlains it in his "Deflection tape" video.

You may have allready know all of this,however,the first line in your(above) quote leaves me thinking that you may think BHE and Aim and pivot are the same thing.

Other than that you and Efren are 100% right as it is an effective way to apply english. Best of luck with your game.
RJ

 

[jsp]

What forces are you refering to and which collision are you talking about, stick/ball or cueball/object ball?

In either case, you can arrive at the spin imparted to the cueball or object ball without considering any increase in contact time as a necessary factor. What is important is the impulse, which is the product of the average force acting over the contact period multiplied by the duration of the period. And equally important, as far as spin is concerned, is the average torque multiplied by the time. The average torque is the average force multiplied by the sideways offset from the center-of-mass in which the impulse is directed.

In both cases, the magnitude of the impulse is equal to the linear momentum (mass times velocity) picked up by the balls, and the magnitude of the torque impulse is equal to the angular momentum (moment of inertia times the rate of spin) acquired by them. In the case of the stick/cueball, the torque impulse is simply the impusle multiplied by the amount of tip offset. In the case of the cueball/object ball, the torque impulse is the impulse multiplied by the coefficient of friction between the balls and the radius of a ball.

In both types of collisions, the magnitude of the impulse is reduced for an off-center hit. This has to be true because the balls don't acquire as much speed (momentum) as with a dead center collision. Therefore, whatever increase in contact time may occur, the reduction in the average force acting during the collision will more than offset this increase (impulse = force x time). Although the impulse is reduced, it would have to go to zero for there to be no spin produced, because it's really the torque (offset x force x time) that causes it.

You're one of the few people interested in the physics, even to the point of doing experiments, so I surely hope I haven't dampened your enthusiasm for it. Who knows, maybe you'll show me where I've gone astray. But I do think that your contact time ideas will lead you up some blind alleys. Just my opinion.

Jim

Jal, you surely do know your physics. You're either an engineer or you teach physics at least at a high school level. Keep posting, I'm turned on by your technical speak.

 

[Jaden]

Sorry about the confusion,

The reason for using the aim and pivot or BHE is to be able to impart spin for CB control while still being fairly certain of being able to make the shot.

Aim and Pivot(also called Tuck and Roll)and BHE aren't the same thing. They are simuliar, however,applied differently.

With BHE you aim to cut in a shot(no english) normally. Once you've established that aim, you then pivot the backhand (while keeping the bridge hand still) to a point on the cue ball for the desired english you want to apply.Once that desired english is set, you then stroke down that NEW line and Voila!!! the english takes.

Aim and Pivot is a much more co-ordinated movement and it takes practice.Applying outside english seems really easy to me, however, rolling to apply inside (For me) is something I'm still working on.

With Aim and pivot you line up to shoot a ball in with no english. In the middle of the delivery stroke you either roll out or tuck in to swoop across the cue ball to either apply varying degrees of inside and outside english. Buddy Hall explains (and shows) this method of english delivery in his "Clock System" video.Bert Kinister also exlains it in his "Deflection tape" video.

You may have allready know all of this,however,the first line in your(above) quote leaves me thinking that you may think BHE and Aim and pivot are the same thing.

Other than that you and Efren are 100% right as it is an effective way to apply english. Best of luck with your game.
RJ

I haven't read any books or watched any videos on advanced pool. I've either figured out everything on my own or been given pointers by top notch players.

I always referred to BHE as aim and pivot before coming to this site in the last few weeks because to use BHE I've always aimed, then pivoted from the bridge for the spin I want, and then practice stroked on the new line from the pivot and then stroked through the ball on the new line.

I wasn't meaning to infer anyone's system that differed from that. Because a lot of the agreed upon terminology I don't know, I'm sure it can be confusing.

 

[recoveryjones]

not a problem.
We are all learning new stuff all the time.I think the game is too big to know everything.

Best of luck with your game.
RJ

 

[onepocketchump]

Hi John,
I say BHE is an aiming system because it does not produce english any differently than parallel english. I've given diagrams and made arguments about this in the past here. I've met some disagreement, but never a good argument against it, so far as I can interpret.

I call it an aiming system becuase that is the value I see in it. It is a useful way in setting up alignment for playing shots with side english.

I've said befor it should be called the BHE Aiming System, rather than just BHE.

I don't know whether using BHE produces more spin than shooting the same shot with Parallel English as a physical fact. I can tell you as a player that I believe more spin is produced using BHE. I don't know if this because the cue is going through the cueball at an angle as opposed to going straight through.

I still don't see how pivoting the cue to apply spin to the cueball helps to aim the cueball towards the object ball. With BHE, as I understand it, spin is applied after the cueball is aimed. Is that wrong? I line up and then I apply the spin.

I haven't followed all of your posts on this subject. Diagrams are well and good but I believe that practical experience trumps them.

Using a centerball hit on the cueball how does BHE help to aim the shot?

John

 

[Colin Colenso]

I don't know whether using BHE produces more spin than shooting the same shot with Parallel English as a physical fact. I can tell you as a player that I believe more spin is produced using BHE. I don't know if this because the cue is going through the cueball at an angle as opposed to going straight through.

I still don't see how pivoting the cue to apply spin to the cueball helps to aim the cueball towards the object ball. With BHE, as I understand it, spin is applied after the cueball is aimed. Is that wrong? I line up and then I apply the spin.

I haven't followed all of your posts on this subject. Diagrams are well and good but I believe that practical experience trumps them.

Using a centerball hit on the cueball how does BHE help to aim the shot?

John

Hi John,
What I mean, is that BHE incorporates a different aiming method to enable alignment on shots that require side english. It allows one to aim while aligning to the CB center. Thereafter the pivot simply aligns the cue to the required contact point on the CB.

I'm a bit of a stickler for terms and definitions, and so 'Parallel English' which is often used as the alternative, is actually a terrible term. For it is impossible to align parallel to the required line and make the shot, at least not until a non-squirt cue can be developed.

Parallel English is really just aligning directly to the intended cue stroke line. The end position of the two systems are essentially identical in terms of bridge point, line of cue travel, contact point on CB. The only thing that is different would be the angle of the bridge hand and body. Which actually makes no difference to the dynamics of the shot but creates a different perspective, hence the confusion about the systems somehow creating english in different ways.

Players using BHE tend to feel more free to hit with extreme english, whereas the parallel system makes such alignment in advanct difficult to judge, but in fact, the same amounts of english can be played I believe.

To sumarize, I believe the only difference in the 2 methods are in the way they are used to develop alignment, hence they should be thought of as alignment or aiming systems to compensate for english, not as types of english.

note: It's my experience and observation, that using the parallel method players are very uncomfortable to aim the cue at a large angle from the intended CB line. Instead, to achieve more english on shots they tend to swipe across. This swiping compensates for the additional squirt that occurs from striking the CB further off center. So generally, they are less apt to play extreme side english, though with some practice the exact same results are possible.

 

[onepocketchump]

Hi John,
What I mean, is that BHE incorporates a different aiming method to enable alignment on shots that require side english. It allows one to aim while aligning to the CB center. Thereafter the pivot simply aligns the cue to the required contact point on the CB.

But the pivot and subsequent application of english has nothing to do with the method used to aim the cueball at the object ball. The pivot is secondary to the aim.

I'm a bit of a stickler for terms and definitions, and so 'Parallel English' which is often used as the alternative, is actually a terrible term. For it is impossible to align parallel to the required line and make the shot, at least not until a non-squirt cue can be developed.

As am I, which is why I strongly disagree with terming BHE as an aiming system. You could call Paralell English, Contact Point Offset Compensation or something like that but we both know what we are talking about. When you use the term "align" it should mean in line with which is what being aligned is. We know that in most cases it is nearly impossible to line up on the cueball on a line parallell to the centerline and stroke it with a straight stroke through the cueball and make the ball, due to deflection, squirt and swerve. The contact point/ghost ball method of aiming requires the shooter to find a point on the object ball or a place in space and then to make a judgement based on how much spin and speed should be applied as to where to adjust that aiming point to and then to lay the cue down along that line at the point of contact on the cueball. That's a lot of calculation where a miniscule error in judgement results in a large error in the results.

The other method is to aim where a centerline is produced and then to apply spin and speed. These are fundamentally different approaches to getting the end result. They do not end up with the same bridge length or setup. While the end result may indeed be the same, the second method is much less complex and is less prone to error than the first.

Parallel English is really just aligning directly to the intended cue stroke line. The end position of the two systems are essentially identical in terms of bridge point, line of cue travel, contact point on CB. The only thing that is different would be the angle of the bridge hand and body. Which actually makes no difference to the dynamics of the shot but creates a different perspective, hence the confusion about the systems somehow creating english in different ways.

I believe they do create spin in different ways. In fact, they must create it in different ways simply because the impetus is different. I am no scientist, which is painfully apparent, but it seems to me that if the cueball is struck with the cue coming in at an angle as opposed to struck with the cue coming in straight then the hit at an angle is with less linear mass behind it. The idea behind Predator shafts for example is to reduce the weight of the first ten inches of the shaft to reduce mass and subsequently deflection. If Predator's claims are true and if it is also true that an off-angle hit has less linear mass then an off-angle hit has less deflection and less need to compensate for it. If there is less deflection then there is probably more spin (rpms) at contact than with a straight-through stroke, and thus it could be concluded, perhaps, that indeed more spin is produced with the same amount of force using BHE.

Players using BHE tend to feel more free to hit with extreme english, whereas the parallel system makes such alignment in advanct difficult to judge, but in fact, the same amounts of english can be played I believe.

I believe that using BHE it si possible to achieve more spin with less effort and less margin of error.

To sumarize, I believe the only difference in the 2 methods are in the way they are used to develop alignment, hence they should be thought of as alignment or aiming systems to compensate for english, not as types of english.

Well, when you say methods, are you refering to the method used to aim, to compensate for deflection, or the method used to apply spin? You could play pool with zero spin and make at least 95% of the shots you are presented with. All of those shots would require some method of aiming that works along with a precise delivery to make them and none of them would require the application of spin. So the method of aiming is distinctly different than the method of applying spin, although I will concede that, as a practical matter, it is pretty much required to have and use compatible methods of aim and spin application for serious pool.

note: It's my experience and observation, that using the parallel method players are very uncomfortable to aim the cue at a large angle from the intended CB line. Instead, to achieve more english on shots they tend to swipe across. This swiping compensates for the additional squirt that occurs from striking the CB further off center. So generally, they are less apt to play extreme side english, though with some practice the exact same results are possible.

It is my personal belief that the use of a valid aiming system (method) coupled with backhand english to apply spin, reduces the need for practice using the trial and error method, and gives the shooter a consistent method that produces consistent results. In other words, it is easier to figure out the correct shot on the fly using an aiming system coupled with BHE. Then it's only a matter of speed and delivery.

John

 

[Jaden]

everything John just said.

I agree with that.

In fact in other threads where I had stated that BHE is different from parallel english that is one of the things I stated although I stated it in a different manner.

I stated that the duration of contact is longer with PE as opposed to BHE, with the way you described it as having a greater portion of the mass of the cue behind the hit it explains how that is possible.

Because you are hitting with a greater mass, there is more force transferred toward forward motion as opposed to spin compared to BHE where there is less mass applied to the forward motion and more to spin.

So it is not necesarily that there is longer contact but there is different distribution of force.

 

[jsp]

hold on...

Jaden and onepocketchump, what exactly is your definition of BHE...and how does it differ from PE? In BHE, do you still shoot straight through the CB (And when I mean "straight through", i mean in a straight line with no swooping or curvature)? And, do you contact the same point on the CB with PE and BHE? If the answer is yes to these two questions, then i'd have to agree with Colin and say they are EXACTLY the same thing...the only difference is how you address the ball. Look at the arguments made in the initial thread on BHE.

You say that in BHE, the cue is coming in at an angle. Yes, this is true, but the same is true in PE, from a different view point. If you're hitting left english on the CB using PE, and then you shift your eyes a half foot to the left of where you normally aim (while keeping your cue stick stationary), doesn't it look like you're striking the CB at an angle? This is exactly what you'd see if you're using BHE, but it's the same stroke as PE.

 

[Jaden]

Ok.

Jaden and onepocketchump, what exactly is your definition of BHE...and how does it differ from PE? In BHE, do you still shoot straight through the CB (And when I mean "straight through", i mean in a straight line with no swooping or curvatur)? And, do you contact the same point on the CB with PE and BHE? If the answer is yes to these two questions, then i'd have to agree with Colin and say they are EXACTLY the same thing...the only difference is how you address the ball. Look at the arguments made in the initial thread on BHE.

You say that in BHE, the cue is coming in at an angle. Yes, this is true, but the same is true in PE, from a different view point. If you're hitting left english on the CB using PE, and then you shift your eyes to the left of where you normally aim such that the contact point is directly at the center of the CB (while keeping your cue stick stationary), doesn't it look like you're striking the CB at an angle? This is exactly what you'd see if you're using BHE, but it's the same stroke as PE.

With BHE you are also stroking straight through, there is a difference though.

I know this may sound like a circular argument but I will explain how it is not.

It could be argued that to make the same shot using PE as with using BHE you would have to adjust your aim so that you're essentially aiming at the same point, but you're not......

Because you're getting more spin from using BHE the OB is thrown more from the CB to OB contact. Here's where it might sound like a circular argument, "but you're going by the assumption that you're getting more spin from BHE"

Not quite.... You see with BHE the aim adjustment is constant... You're always adjusting from your main aimline, but with PE you have to manually adjust aim based on feel from experience. If you look at one of the previous threads on this, I show a diagram of how with PE you would be hitting the CB more full. You don't EVER have your bridge on the original aimline using PE. You always shift over and then adjust. This means you are hitting the ball more full with less spin. Any other way you do it, you are arriving at the same thing as BHE and in that case you would be using BHE NOT PE, you would just be arriving at it a different way. You would be doing feel based BHE rather than PE.

 

[jsp]

Not quite.... You see with BHE the aim adjustment is constant... You're always adjusting from your main aimline, but with PE you have to manually adjust aim based on feel from experience. If you look at one of the previous threads on this, I show a diagram of how with PE you would be hitting the CB more full.

Is this the diagram you're talking about? It seems like you're neglecting squirt for the PE case. Although the contact points are the same, the resulting CB trajectories will be different, because the cue angles are different. For the PE case, the CB will squirt off to the right side, the exact same amount it squirts in the BHE case (in reference to the angle of the cue stick). In your diagram, it is impossible for the CBs to have the same departure direction given the same contact point and different cue stick angles. Yes, you'd have more spin in the BHE case, but you're not comparing apples to apples because the CB paths would be different. Gabber actually explained it perfectly in his diagrams in
post #122.

 

[Jaden]

Is this the diagram you're talking about? It seems like you're neglecting squirt for the PE case. Although the contact points are the same, the resulting CB trajectories will be different, because the cue angles are different. For the PE case, the CB will squirt off to the right side, the exact same amount it squirts in the BHE case (in reference to the angle of the cue stick). In your diagram, it is impossible for the CBs to have the same departure direction given the same contact point and different cue stick angles. Yes, you'd have more spin in the BHE case, but you're not comparing apples to apples because the CB paths would be different. Gabber actually explained it perfectly in his diagrams in
post #122.

DId you read that last post. I have to go. I'll reply tommorrow. MY ride is l leaving. But I will explain what I'm saying tommorrow. YES, if you end up with the same angle as BHE then you will have the same shot, what I'm saying though is that the majority of the time using PE you will end up with a different angle and if you do that is where it differs. I'll explaiun tommorrow. goto go.

 

[onepocketchump]

Jaden and onepocketchump, what exactly is your definition of BHE...and how does it differ from PE? In BHE, do you still shoot straight through the CB (And when I mean "straight through", i mean in a straight line with no swooping or curvature)? And, do you contact the same point on the CB with PE and BHE? If the answer is yes to these two questions, then i'd have to agree with Colin and say they are EXACTLY the same thing...the only difference is how you address the ball. Look at the arguments made in the initial thread on BHE.

You say that in BHE, the cue is coming in at an angle. Yes, this is true, but the same is true in PE, from a different view point. If you're hitting left english on the CB using PE, and then you shift your eyes a half foot to the left of where you normally aim (while keeping your cue stick stationary), doesn't it look like you're striking the CB at an angle? This is exactly what you'd see if you're using BHE, but it's the same stroke as PE.

The cue is moving through the contact point on a straight line connecting the grip hand, the bridge and the contact point on both shots. The difference is how much mass is behind the hit. My theory is that an increase in angle reduces mass and offsets deflection appreciably. We aren't talking about optical illsusions created by shifting line of sight. We are talking about a measurable difference in approach angle to the contact point on the cueball where all other variables are the same.

Has anyone here ever had problems figuring out inside english shots? You know the ones where you have to swing the cueball around three rails, or make the cue ball come back when the angle looks impossible? I used to. With 18 years of playing experience I could not get consistent with my inside english shots. After learning several aiming systems (thanks to Hal) and combining them with BHE there are no inside english shots that are at all difficult. To me all shots look the same now. And that is the major difference in my opinion. No need to guess what offset is needed, no need to worry about bridge length or pivot points. It's liberating.

So, you all can argue all you want to about getting the same results with the PE methods. I know for me that I could get a consistent result 50% of the time at best on certain shots using PE and now I can get a consistent result 90%$ of the time using an aiming sytem and BHE. This is based on personal experience and the validation from better players than myself.

John