I have played league for probably 15+ years now so I am well aware of how a ERO is achieved breaking & not breaking. In all honesty 8 ERO's by you and 12 by a top player wouldn't get a sniff in the scratch league where I play. It is good play don't get me wrong, but it just wouldn't be at the top. It seems that you were way too much involved in the individual aspects of your league. In team play you do what it takes for the team to win as a whole & let the individual stuff shake out how it will.
Bias with Your Own Team's Playing Order? (long)
- Thread starter Get_A_Grip
- Start date
Well, I never said that I was a great player. I play out in the county where the top player only has a 640 Fargo Rating. I wouldn't say that only "I" was too concerned with the individual standings, as the entire league is set up to heavily emphasize placing high as an individual with extra individual money and trophies for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and an extra All-Star tournament only for the top player on each team. My teammate was more concerned than me about taking second, because after losing the flip he cried to the captain to get the results of the coin flip overturned.
It's because of THOSE extra "prizes" that a captain needs to be very careful at the end of the season not to favor one player over another, because it will result in literally gifting one player the top spot over another. And in this case, it was gifting the weaker player on the team the top spot to boot. At least a coin flip to determine who plays who gives both players an equal chance of getting the top spot, with no impact on how the team will do.
I play for money all of the time. So while I understand your comment, it doesn't apply to me. When I post threads like this, isn't not to cry about anything. It's to have something interesting to discuss. I knew full well how many would react to this thread. But I figured I could use this example to disspell some of the fallacies that exist about it being better for the team for the top players to always play each other and for captains that think that they can influence the outcome of a match by manipulating the playing order. All that matters is how many total wins the team gets, it doesn't matter at all if one player on the other team gets "contained".
Wasn't directed at anyone specific. I played leagues quite a while and all the drama totally negated any fun. I've seen more bitching/whining in league play than in matches played for large green. IMO if league play is taken this seriously then those involved are missing the point of the deal.
You're probably right. I will try a different league next year with playing every player on the other team each night, and see how that goes. The only pool room close by here closed down due to COVID-19. So there really isn't a place close by to go to gamble. I've been gambling after each league night. I did find a tournament to play in at the end of this month. But there aren't too many tournaments to play in around here, unless I want to drive more than an hour to get there.
Guess that depends on the strength of your game and the opponents who get the break against you.
Saying the break isn't a big advantage on a single game match up against a top player, is like claiming you have the same odds of winning the lottery without buying a ticket.
What you believe is just another fallacy. The break is a minimal advantage to win a single game. Don't get me wrong, I would prefer to have the break to have the first chance to control the table. But the stats say that we both would have very close to the same odds to win the game.
_______
This just says more about your game, and the quality of your opponents then anything else. Against top talent the break in a single game match is a massive advantage. Sure if you're playing guys that can't get out then ya, whatever. I wouldn't call them "top talent" though.
Go look at the stats that the forum member At Large posts for PRO tournaments. He tracks the percentage of the games the breaker wins over a large number of games. There usually is an advantage, but it's way smaller than most people would think. For players less than a 600 Fargo Rating, the odds are so low for a break and run, that it's a wash.
_______
Would you give all the breaks to a guy who on average has an ero every 3.7 games?
I wouldn't be gambling and giving all of the breaks to anyone that good. They likely would be spotting me. But with the guys that I gamble with who all have Fargo Ratings under 600, I always give them all of the breaks. They think it's a big spot, when in fact, it's a wash.
Sure, but again, not what I would consider top talent. There's also more to the top teir 8 ball game then just breaking and running. Getting the opportunity to manlipuate the table before your opponent touches his cue, is yet another advantage.
For example: The top shooter in my league (not me by a long shot) has a record of 26-2 with 14eros, (covid lockdowned the season). You want the break advantage against this dude...lol
You brought up several times that you are a better player than your team mate although you both have the same winning percentage.
That alone justifies your captain choosing you to play the better player. The only reason your team mate had the same win percentage was because he played the other teams second best while you played the best each week until he tied your win percentage.
I just dropped off a team that had four of us at the same handicap ...s/l 5 and i had the worst win percentage and yet was the strongest 5. How is that possible ? Because my captain always chose me to play the other teams strongest player. He knew i had the best odds of beating higher levels or at least getting to the hill and winning a point for the team.
A perfect example is a few weeks ago during tri cups i beat a 7 by 3-3 in a 3-5 race on the team i was captain of. When my other team faced this same team he wanted me to play that 7 again but i was already in a match with my other team so he chose our 5 with the best win record. That 5 lost 5-0. When i got through with my match i then went over to that team and faced a 6 and won 4-2 in a 4-5 race getting 2 points back from our other 5's 3-0 loss.
That proves what another poster stated...you need to take other factors besides win percentage into consideration such who played who .
All a coin flip achieves is give you a. 50/50 chance to duck their best player in hopes of improving your chances at more money.
That alone justifies your captain choosing you to play the better player. The only reason your team mate had the same win percentage was because he played the other teams second best while you played the best each week until he tied your win percentage.
I just dropped off a team that had four of us at the same handicap ...s/l 5 and i had the worst win percentage and yet was the strongest 5. How is that possible ? Because my captain always chose me to play the other teams strongest player. He knew i had the best odds of beating higher levels or at least getting to the hill and winning a point for the team.
A perfect example is a few weeks ago during tri cups i beat a 7 by 3-3 in a 3-5 race on the team i was captain of. When my other team faced this same team he wanted me to play that 7 again but i was already in a match with my other team so he chose our 5 with the best win record. That 5 lost 5-0. When i got through with my match i then went over to that team and faced a 6 and won 4-2 in a 4-5 race getting 2 points back from our other 5's 3-0 loss.
That proves what another poster stated...you need to take other factors besides win percentage into consideration such who played who .
All a coin flip achieves is give you a. 50/50 chance to duck their best player in hopes of improving your chances at more money.
Our league goes by total wins of the team. It doesn't matter if I "beat" my opponent 2-1. You get nothing for winning more games than your opponent does. The way the odds based on our skill would go if I play their weaker player is that I win 3-0 and my teammate will win only 1 game against their stronger player, for 4 total wins between the two of us. When I played their stronger player I won 2 games and when my teammate played their weaker player he won 2 games, for the exact same total of 4 wins. And that is the way it would work on average every time that we matched up either way. So it is NOT better for the team if I play the stronger player. It's a wash.
But, with only 2 weeks left in the season, whoever of us got to play the weaker player would obviously get 1 more win than if we played their stronger player, and whoever played the stronger player would get 1 less win. This is reality. So overruling the coin flip is basically GIFTING second place in the league to whoever the captain chooses to play their second best player. That is just the cold, hard reality of it. And it's definitely not the right way to handle it.