Big table/Small room-thinking outside of the (bar)box

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Screenshot_20210428-154232.jpg
 

Scottcrosby

Member
I do appreciate your candor and do believe most people people are reading this post with a healthy dose of scepticism. I get how my reluctance to post even a single picture looks at the very least “suspicious”. I can also see how this reply looks like it’s coming from a wealthy prince in Nigeria.

Video coming soon.
Scott
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Gold Member
Silver Member
I do appreciate your candor and do believe most people people are reading this post with a healthy dose of scepticism. I get how my reluctance to post even a single picture looks at the very least “suspicious”. I can also see how this reply looks like it’s coming from a wealthy prince in Nigeria.

Video coming soon.
Scott
Define "soon".
 

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nice!

Next project is to mount an overhead camera and get a computer to identify the cueball, and then move the table automatically after every shot once the balls stop moving.

This guy might have ideas if you can contact him:

He seems to have software like that already made.
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn’t see any closeups of the ball screw. How did you attach it to the table and rails? Is it on one end, both ends, or center only of the table? Did you have any racking issues?

How did you level the angle iron linear bearings?

you should be able to easily backdrive the ball screw without the stepper attacked. But it’s a moot point with motor attached.

You can get an ihsv57 100 watt servo motor from AliExpress for $85 shipped. It has the driver in the endcap. I have a few of them they work great and seem to be the cheapest servo option. It has an 8mm shaft. Whisper quiet.

Edit: I'm watching the video a second time and seeing some of the answers to my questions.
 
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Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Excellent job. Now I need to seriously consider a 9' as it is about 6" too long...hmmm
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
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And what about simple buttons on the bottom of the table in strategic locations. Maybe a rocker switch on each corner, flip it one way and that's the way it moves, etc. The would allow you to simply tap the button on the way around the table as opposed to reaching into your pocket. Or, you could build a voice activation and tell it to move left or right ;) That would be fun.
 

Scottcrosby

Member
And what about simple buttons on the bottom of the table in strategic locations. Maybe a rocker switch on each corner, flip it one way and that's the way it moves, etc. The would allow you to simply tap the button on the way around the table as opposed to reaching into your pocket. Or, you could build a voice activation and tell it to move left or right ;) That would be fun.
Hey Chili, i tried all those things. I finally settled on a key FOB because I could hang it from my belt. After a couple of days I could easily find A B or C without having to look down. The voice thing was a big too gimmicky, even for me.
 

Scottcrosby

Member
Well I give you credit for having an original post idea on these forums!

Your friend's project sounds fascinating to me. I fool around with CNC machines on a hobby level. Here is what I would recommend:

-Put the table on linear bearings used for CNC milling machines. You can get them on eBay, or cheaper on aliexpress if you don't mind the 2 month delivery. I think you will need 25mm to 30mm wide linear bearing guides. The wider they are, the more weight they can support, but the more expensive they become.
-Put the guides on the floor, and the trucks on the table legs.
-The guides must be level and on a rigid surface, so when the table moves, it will retain its level.
-Put the guides in a recess in the floor, so that you won't trip over them, and you won't make the table much higher. (side note, if you are tall, a taller table won't be a problem. I have my table on top of 5" blocks and love the height. I'm 6' 3" tall).
-Use a ball screw to move the table. One on each pair of legs. You are only moving a frictional load, not a weight bearing load, so the screws can be on the small side (and cheap side). A 12mm or 15mm screw will be plenty. The larger the diameter the screw, the more expensive. Get the screws from aliexpress or eBay.
-Use a servo motor, not a stepper motor. The prices are almost the same now in the hobby world. A stepper motor will make a horrible ringing noise, especially at the low RPM needed for this application. A servo motor will be whisper quiet. JMC Servo motor is the cheapest. The model number you want is iHSVxx. where the xx is 57 or 60 depending on the size. But technic clearpath servo motors are easier to setup, and still cheap. If you use a belt reduction, a nema 23 size will be fine to move the table, as my educated guess. With no reduction, you might want a nema 34. I'd probably try a nema 23 to start as they are more compact, even without a belt reduction. Actually I take this back. I'd go with a nema 23, and design in a belt reduction. Servos work best at faster speeds (opposite of steppers), so having a belt reduction will mean the servo can spin in an rpm range that has more torque. This will give you more reliable service.
-With a ball screw, (and the servo's not physically attached), you will be able to back drive the screw. This means if you lean on the table, it will turn the ball nut because the friction in the ball screw and ball nut is so low. In comparison, if you used an acme screw or a v-thread screw, the table will be locked in place when you lean on it, even with no servo motor attached. That is an advantage in your situation, at the expense of significantly more friction in the system, and then a more powerful motor needed to turn it. Having used both v-thread leadscrews and ball screws, the difference is huge, and I think I'd still go with a ball screw in your application. With the system on, the servo will hold the table when you lean on it. But if the system is off, the table will move if you lean on it. There are also servo motors that have a break, so that when the system is off, they don't spin. That would also solve this back driving issue.
-You will need this whole system times two. One for each pair of legs. To couple them, tie the two servos together electronically. The other way to do it is use one servo motor and tie both halves together with a belt or a chain. Both methods are used in CNC machines, particularly cnc gantry routers. For your application, the electronic method will be much better, since you won't need a long mechanical system in-between the two sets of legs.
-Have a home and limit switch on the end of each rail.
-For deciding when to move the table, some sort of vision system like Bob mentioned would be nice, but I think that would be way to difficult to implement, unless your guy is an electrical engineer, and computer programmer, and does vision systems for his day job, and can take home the equipment needed from the dayjob. I think a simple button on the table rail that moved the table from one extreme to the other would be simple to do, and easy to operate. You could have it duplicated on both sides of the table. Push it once, and the table moves 24" from where it is. Push it again, and it moves 24" back. That's it. No other options. Nothing to think about. With the ballscrew and linear rails, I don't think it would be a problem to move it 24" in 10 seconds.
-Expect this project to a year to complete in a hobby situation. Unless your guy is very familiar with cnc, CAD, electronics, computers, arduino, etc. Each component in this type of system has a very steep learning curve.

Good luck:)
Special shout out to iusetoberich. Your comments were bang on and you came up with basically the same solution as me in round 1. Some might even say I stole your ideas,lol.
 

Scottcrosby

Member
I didn’t see any closeups of the ball screw. How did you attach it to the table and rails? Is it on one end, both ends, or center only of the table? Did you have any racking issues?

How did you level the angle iron linear bearings?

you should be able to easily backdrive the ball screw without the stepper attacked. But it’s a moot point with motor attached.

You can get an ihsv57 100 watt servo motor from AliExpress for $85 shipped. It has the driver in the endcap. I have a few of them they work great and seem to be the cheapest servo option. It has an 8mm shaft. Whisper quiet.

Edit: I'm watching the video a second time and seeing some of the answers to my questions.
About the only thing I didn't show were the limit switches on both ends of the ball screw. When the table powers up it "homes" to the left side until it hits the switch and then turns back 1 revolution. B and C are at step 2000 and 4000. The second limit switch is at 4010. If ever the carriage hits the 4010 mark the limit switch triggers the reset directly on the arduino and the system re-homes itself. A servo motor would simply the code. V2??
I levelled the angle iron with a few playing cards. My floor was quite straight already.
 

Scottcrosby

Member
About the only thing I didn't show were the limit switches on both ends of the ball screw. When the table powers up it "homes" to the left side until it hits the switch and then turns back 1 revolution. B and C are at step 2000 and 4000. The second limit switch is at 4010. If ever the carriage hits the 4010 mark the limit switch triggers the reset directly on the arduino and the system re-homes itself. A servo motor would simply the code. V2??
I levelled the angle iron with a few playing cards. My floor was quite straight already so it was easy to do. Used my cars scissor jack.
 
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