I have no influence on the software. And I would like to be able to download my fargo rate vs time.
Billiard Industry needs
- Thread starter Cardguys3
- Start date
Yes. But the more interesting case is almost islands. A Presque-isle is an "almost island," a peninsula with a thin neck. And it becomes interesting not only what happens to the few players who leave but also the larger number who stay.
Here is a quiz.
In the scenario below,
(1) What happens to Bill's rating?
(2) What happens to the ratings of the other 29 NowhereVillians
(3) (optional extra points) How would your answers to (1) and (2) change if you were talking about an Elo rating approach, like FIDE, Glicko, or the various pool implementations
dquarasr
Registered
Many leagues score matches with phone or tablet apps.
So a couple of things first. I have noticed that my fargo moves when I have not played, which tells me there is some feedback based on my opponents future ratings change [performance]. Small but still present. My answer is based on what I think it should do.
So my final answer is D. This is what should happen in my opinion. No way either C or A are the answer. B shouldn't happen either.
As for ELO, I have a USCF rating but have no specific knowledge of how it works. Very crude understanding at best.
Your intuition is right here. If Bill apparently seriously underperforms (375 instead of expected 575) when he moves to Phoenix, there is every reason to believe all those who play near Bill's speed back in Nowhereville also would perform near 375 if they played in Phoenix. And when those players move down to 375, everyone else in Nowhereville needs to move down a few hundred points to maintain the internal order. This is an extreme (fake) case of the kind of rebalancing that is happening on smaller scales every day.
Also, if we look at another person in Nowhereville, perhaps Vito, rated 630, he will have went to bed rated 630 and woke up to see 430, even though he didn't play anything new. It's not that his opponents got worse. It's that FargoRate got less confused about how they actually play. When your rating fluctuates, it's about FargoRate having a better understanding of your average opponent strength.
Elo is step by step, without this feedback we're talking about here. With Elo, Bill would go down a bunch from his performance in Phoenix, but his friends back home stay where they are. If Bill moved back to Nowhereville, the effects of his Phoenix trip would in time trickle around and cause the whole town to go down by about 7 points (not the 200 right away like with FargoRate).
Cardguys3
New member
I love these ideas. How does one determine what constitutes a safety, or a successful safety, or does it even matter?
Like I said earlier in the above post - The industry will always chase what’s profitable or has the potential to be. That’s usually dictated by the professional tours and it doesn’t necessarily mean it improves the game. I questioned if carbon fiber shafts took hold not because of wh the players wanted but what the industry wanted.
On the Joe Rogan podcast Fedor Gorst pretty much said just that. “The industry went to carbon fiber 4 or 5 years ago and maybe some companies were pushing the players you had to make a switch.”
It’s way less expensive to make carbon fiber shafts and the production cue companies don’t have to go out and chase good straight grain wood. For those of you that like carbon fiber shafts I’m not arguing or debating that they are better than wood shafts or not. My point is, for the industry, it is always a business decision first. I doubt what the players ever want is even a consideration. Margins drive everything for the companies that hold the real power in the pool world.
Sounds like how everything in the world works not just the pool world. We all think we have free will…
Last edited:
CF has become a popular choice for many sports including golf, tennis, auto racing and yes billiards, CF brings alot of advantages over wood and not all CF shafts are created equal, Becue spent years working on how their shafts and cues were made, they were the first company to build a completely carbon fiber cue, they didn't stop there, their latest shaft, the Prime II 12.0 is the best shaft I have ever owned, I am not anti wooden shafts, the best cue for you is the one that feels best in your hands, CF shafts don't have more power, your stroke is what produces that, what CF shafts do offer is consistency from shaft to shaft, at least with Becue they do, they also offer 3 different playing shafts that are engineered for 3 different types of feel, everyone doesn't like the same type of hit, I'm sure there are companies out there who are just filling CF tubes with foam and making a quick buck, Becue is not that company, like I said, not all CF shafts are created equal just like all wooden shafts are not either.
SSP, I hear you on CF and I know a lot of players prefer it and I’m fine with that. If it feels right in your hands is all that always matters. I recognize CF probably wins is in longevity, not warping, ease of manufacturing. I’m not debating whether CF is better or worse than wood - If Becue has a good product I’m sure it will catch on.
But that wasn’t really my point. My point is that the industry dictates the direction of the game… not the players. Whether it’s jump cues, racking gadgets, or CF shafts, the companies with money and margins behind them push what they want out there. Sometimes players embrace it, sometimes they don’t, but the industry always makes the first move based on profitability.
Like Fedor said on the Rogan podcast, it wasn’t just players suddenly deciding CF was better - companies were nudging them to switch. And it makes sense why: CF is cheaper to mass-produce and way less of a headache than sourcing straight-grain maple. That’s not a knock on CF players or companies who are genuinely engineering quality products. It’s just how the business side works… profit first, game second.
The industry knows if the top players are seen using something, fans and bar players will follow. So they sponsor, pay, or outright incentivize pros to play with the latest gear. It’s marketing dressed and it’s how the industry gets the rest of us to go along - that’s how it works.
All I’m saying is - the industry drives the bus, players either ride along or find their own way to adapt.
Last edited:
I think players are willing to TRY any thing that might help their game, top money winners are not going to use a product that reduces their ability to win, I know that pro's in many sports endorse products for the money, they don't have to, it's their choice if they do.
Your totally missing my point.
I think this was part of my previous post - “SSP, I hear you on CF and I know a lot of players prefer it and I’m fine with that. If it feels right in your hands is all that always matters. I recognize CF probably wins is in longevity, not warping, ease of manufacturing. I’m not debating whether CF is better or worse than wood - If Becue has a good product I’m sure it will catch on.”
You are saying that the billiard industry is driving CF in billiards because of cost and ease to manufacture, I'm saying that other sports had already started using CF before billiards, and cue manufacturers wanted to be on the cutting edge before someone else beat them to it, just my opinion....
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I agree. It's also simple economics. You can either source good wood, go through all the aging and drying process and still end up throwing away 20-40% of your dowels that don't meet your standards, or you can get a CF tube that is almost always perfect. No need for aging/drying or having a "river of wood" on hand for your shafts. Companies are almost universally trying to not hold onto material and go with a just in time manufacturing philosophy.
Permanent advancements in technology almost always consist of multiple improvements at once. Almost never just one property.
Synthetic rubber can not yet replace natural rubber’s polymer chain disorganization, and things like airplane landing tires must be made of natural rubber because of the temperature and strength properties. We would like not to depend on rubber trees.
Tile flooring has been around since the beginning of civilization.
But synthetic fibers in clothing are now completely dominant because of its lower cost, water resistance, ease of manufacture, durability, light weight, etc.
Just like wooden barrels vs steel barrels, carbon fiber seems to be superior in all aspects compared to wood for sports applications.
Synthetic rubber can not yet replace natural rubber’s polymer chain disorganization, and things like airplane landing tires must be made of natural rubber because of the temperature and strength properties. We would like not to depend on rubber trees.
Tile flooring has been around since the beginning of civilization.
But synthetic fibers in clothing are now completely dominant because of its lower cost, water resistance, ease of manufacture, durability, light weight, etc.
Just like wooden barrels vs steel barrels, carbon fiber seems to be superior in all aspects compared to wood for sports applications.
Last edited:
sudocrushms
Well-known member
Expanding on this with a request (because y'all don't have enough to do already
): Can we get a display in FargoRate that shows a bell curve of ratings with a "you are here" line? It would be really interesting to see what the rating distribution looks like.
Pubo
Active member
Well, I suppose it is not so easy to automate the process. But it certainly is feasible. In snooker pro tournaments, safeties are tracked. Does it matter? I think so, why not?