Blackjack's Buzzkill

[macguy]

Hello,

The IPT has hired the William Morris Agency. That's because William Morris can hook up the IPT with Media Outlets and hook up IPT players with endorsement deals. You guys must really think that Kevin Trudeau is a sucker. This guy makes his own decisions according to his own idea of how things should be.

John

You bet and he will have his fingers in every bit of it. Like I said, the players better get agents to protect their interest. WM is working for Kevin, not the players. Like doing a business deal and using the other guys lawyer, best to bring your own. There is the potential for some players to sign major deals. I have always said there is no reason they can't be doing commericals, but you don't want Kevin owning you because you were too dumb to watch out for your own interests, it happens all the time to smarter people then a lot of these pool players.

 

[vader93490]

If it fails it fails, I doubt it will cause any damange to the sport. It may provide valuable lessons. But I think, if it does fail, it won't be for the reasons you suggest.

I had to laugh and smile at this one. Yeah, right if it fails there won't be any damage. All it will do is just set pool back even further as I stated previously. But, that's obviously not a big deal to someone like yourself, is it? It obviously doesn't bother you that the sport will suffer even more when this tour fails and Mr. Trudeau bails out with even more ill-gotten monetary gains & the sport's participants will have less now than what they had before.

As I see it, the only valuable lesson that will be shown is that the IPT's participants were easy & gullible marks & nothing else. The sport will be looked even more down upon by the general populace than it is now. Any potential major corporate sponsors won't even be the slightest bit interested in doing anything associated with the sport.

Again, you can't just simply throw money at a sport in order for it to succeed. Organization needs to be implemented with people who are knowledgeable about said sport (the players) and billiard industry participants working together for a common goal, that being the success of the sport. Also, cooperation with other governing bodies is necessary in order for the tour to gain a sense of legitimacy. To the best of my knowledge, the IPT has made no overtures to any other recognized governing body of pool & if their current attitude is anything to judge, they won't be doing so at all.

If you go back in history, you'll see that the PBT tour along with Don Mackey tried this isolationist-type policy which is akin to what the IPT is doing right now. They shunned other governing bodies of pool like the WPA & decided to go it alone. And what did it get them? After the dust settled, they had no tour and virtually no media coverage whatsoever, aside from a rare appearance like the BCA Open or trick shot competition. And even then that's only on cable or satellite, you don't see anything on regular broadcasts like ABC or NBC.

This farce & joke of a tour operation is doomed to fail before it starts; that "world tournament" illustrated that. And unfortunately, the end result will be that the players that are participating in it are going to be dropped into the trick bag, just like when Don Mackey bailed out. I just hope that some of them realize what's going on & take precautions to protect themselves before doomsday.

 

[wayne]

I had to laugh and smile at this one. Yeah, right if it fails there won't be any damage. All it will do is just set pool back even further as I stated previously. But, that's obviously not a big deal to someone like yourself, is it? It obviously doesn't bother you that the sport will suffer even more when this tour fails and Mr. Trudeau bails out with even more ill-gotten monetary gains & the sport's participants will have less now than what they had before.

As I see it, the only valuable lesson that will be shown is that the IPT's participants were easy & gullible marks & nothing else. The sport will be looked even more down upon by the general populace than it is now. Any potential major corporate sponsors won't even be the slightest bit interested in doing anything associated with the sport.

Again, you can't just simply throw money at a sport in order for it to succeed. Organization needs to be implemented with people who are knowledgeable about said sport (the players) and billiard industry participants working together for a common goal, that being the success of the sport. Also, cooperation with other governing bodies is necessary in order for the tour to gain a sense of legitimacy. To the best of my knowledge, the IPT has made no overtures to any other recognized governing body of pool & if their current attitude is anything to judge, they won't be doing so at all.

If you go back in history, you'll see that the PBT tour along with Don Mackey tried this isolationist-type policy which is akin to what the IPT is doing right now. They shunned other governing bodies of pool like the WPA & decided to go it alone. And what did it get them? After the dust settled, they had no tour and virtually no media coverage whatsoever, aside from a rare appearance like the BCA Open or trick shot competition. And even then that's only on cable or satellite, you don't see anything on regular broadcasts like ABC or NBC.

This farce & joke of a tour operation is doomed to fail before it starts; that "world tournament" illustrated that. And unfortunately, the end result will be that the players that are participating in it are going to be dropped into the trick bag, just like when Don Mackey bailed out. I just hope that some of them realize what's going on & take precautions to protect themselves before doomsday.

You should be a motivational speaker for Doom and Gloomers so they can get really depressed.

Wayne

 

[onepocketchump]

Mr. Barton,

Nobody should "own" pool. The last time somebody "owned" pool they sold it, took the money and ran. I have no problem with somebody coming in and helping our sport. I would be much more comfortable if that person did not have the credibility issues that seem to follow Mr. Trudeau. Perhaps someday I will have to say that I was dead wrong about this, but honestly do not believe that will be the case.

To "Hooked" who so graciously decided to psychoanalyze me while tossing in personal attacks, I will not stoop to your level. This isn't about personal attacks, its about the future of pool.

You're right, no one should own pool. But so far the pool player have PROVEN that they can't manage or grow pool. The BCA has proven that they can't manage or grow pool. The WPA has proven that they can't manage or grow pool.

Who owns golf? Who owns tennis? The PGA owns golf, the WTA owns tennis. Why? Because they don't have an industry association that is only interested in what they can get out of their insider deals that calls itself the governing body of it's sport. They don't have large leagues with seperate rules that have ZERO interest in working together. What they both have is NON-PROFIT organizations that put on the tournaments and arrange for the sponsorships and the television rights, and they make the rules. The rules that are the same worldwide.

Do you have any alternative to Kevin's offer? Sure, we all do. We can wish all we want to but the truth is that until we have a PRODUCT then there will be NO BUYERS. Kevin is filling a VOID. He is producing a product that he hopes will sell. The X-Games are a perfect example of this. Is the UPA a viable alternative? No, not even close. As we have seen the UPA is ineffective at either increasing the overall well being of it's members and even getting it's members paid for the tournaments they do participate in.

Throughout history, billiards has always been subject to the whims of promoters. Every BIG match you ever read about was put on by promoters. The players are actors, on stage because someone with enough money builds them a stage and buys them costumes, and pays for production. Good performers become popular and become famous and are subsequently rewarded.

That's it. That is ALL professional sports are about. If you want to volunteer your time and energy for the betterment of the sport then spend time with juniors and league players. If you want to do it for the pros then hopefully you will be making some money because that is ALL they care about in the end. It is all they should care about if they choose to be a PROFESSIONAL pool player.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

He will purchase the TV time just as he does now with his informercials and show the matches as if it is a sports event with his advertising as the sponsor. He could even get other sponsors if he wants, it belongs to him to do with as he pleases, he may even sell videos or dvd's of the matches themselves much like Accu States again, it all belongs to him. If you ever watched any of his shows he does now they pretend to be interview shows talking about his books and products but obviously they are just a 30 minute commercial, this will be the same except it will be pool matches as he hawks his products. He can show the pool matches forever never having to pay the players another nickel once he has enough in the can it all belongs to him. Its a pretty good idea actually and would put pool on the TV a lot and be good for pool, but the players in the end will just have a short payday if he decides to pull the plug or just decides he has enough and doesn't care to invest any more money he will be able to prostituted the players from that point forward as he continuous to make money off them not having to pay them anything. Your right when you say it is a relatively a cheap buy in to get proven content for a promotional platform. He is not doing this out of the goodness of his heart. I hope the players protect their rights. They need agents. I think he sees he can be the Don King of pool and the players will belong to him so to speak. This is a direct quote from his web site, "Don King has been one of the most successful fight promoters in history, making virtually dozens of fighters multimillionaires. It is my intention to be one of the greatest promoters of pool in the history of the sport." The only fighters who made money with King were the ones who danced on a string. Like I said, the players need an agent to represent them.

You are right. You notice though that you NEVER see an infomercial in PRIME TIME. Prime time is reserved for compelling content that draws viewers. Television will PAY for content that is compelling. Why does Merck advertise in prime time as well as by infomercial? So that they can reach the entire market. For Kevin it makes perfect sense to create content that can reach prime time and be a profit center instead of an expense. Actually, this business model is quite prevalent these days.

John

 

[Blackjack]

You should be a motivational speaker for Doom and Gloomers so they can get really depressed.

Wayne

Actually, Vader nails this one. Ignoring the fact that this may not work is very irresponsible behavior by many people that are blindly following the dollar signs. We've been through before.

Colin, we don't need to learn anymore lessons. We took the deathblow from RJ Reynolds. What else do we have to learn? It would be wise to have a contingency plan for THE GAME so that we can survive if the IPT fails at some point. Hopefully the players are not acclimated to large purses when that happens, because we're going to be right back where we started. You'll have players refusing to play in events that have purses that are less than what they are playing for with the IPT now. What type of pro tour is going to exist in that atmosphere. The players are obviously loyal only to the almighty dollar and nothing else. If you disagree with me on that, you are way out of touch with reality. The internal problems that exist (and believe me they are the root cause to our failures up to this point - please refer to the Danny Harriman threads if you need this explained to you). Are you surpised Danny was shunned by the IPT? I'm not surprised at all. There are other problems that exist "internally" that I will not discuss in a public forum, but I will discuss with anyone over the phone. We all know these "little" problems exist within our game. With this new found fortune those problems will escalate and eventually creep to the surface.

Another thing... Camel did not want to sell pool.. they wanted to sell tobacco products. At the time, big money tobacco was going through a lot of harsh times, putting it mildly. I questioned whether it was a good idea to associate ourselves with any tobacco company at the time. Remember? We were going to be just like Winston Cup. They have 300,000 fans at their events, and people were talking about how 300,000 fans were going to show up at our events. We were going to be marketed like Winston Cup, NASCAR, guys were building castles in the clouds with money that had yet to be won. We've been here before. We dove into shallow water head first. We're doing the same thing now.

Trudeau has already said he wants to market his products by using pool. This sounds very familiar to me. Remember the chain smoking cartoon camel shooting pool with his cap on backwards with a cancer stick hanging out of his mouth? That is all we have to show for our deal with RJ Reynolds. Mackey, like the jack-wad he is, knew RJ Reynolds was thinking of pulling the plug on our tour (because they found us to be very difficult to market in teh mainstream media - duhhhhh you can't endorse tobacco on TV or in magazines), Mackey - in a panic - jumped sides to try and strike a deal with Phillip-Morris (while we were still under contract with RJ Reynolds). I was still wondering why in the heck we involved ourselves with a tobacco company in the first place. Today in retrospect everyone will agree that it was stupid. At the time, I was one of the lone holdouts questioning this deal. I still wondered why we were attractive to a tobacco company -

Camel then came out with a statement that made it crystal clear. And I quote Larry Kiger, VP of Marketing, RJReynolds Tobacco Company, "our sole purpose is to impact attendees of Pro Tour events. This is an adult environment, and surveys indicate that 60 percent of of the adults playing and attending billiard events use tobacco products."

They not only wanted to market our sport, they wanted to kill us too. Way to go. After Mackey got caught sleeping with Phillip Morris, the Men's Pro Tour took the proverbial bullet to the head. The RJR Marketing team of Larry Kiger and Wayne Robertson had all these ideas and all these tools they were going to use to build our tour.

They built our coffin instead. At this point, it is still not clear which one of them provided the hammer or the nails to construct the MPBT's coffin, but these men were heralded as heros coming in to take our sport into the next millienium. We gave them Mackey to work with. Dumb move on our part.

So much for our credibility, which went down the toilet very quickly just like I said it would. Mackey eventually sued Camel, and was awarded $886,000. I don't know what he did with that money, do you? It didn't go back into resuscitating Professional Pool. He took the money and ran. There were players that had not been paid. I'm sure they didn't get any of that money either. Bob Jewett, if you're out there , correct me if I'm worng about any of this. I'm pretty sure I'm not.

My point is, everybody was just as optimistic about this fiasco in its early stages. The criticism I am receiving now does not bother me half as much as when I received it 10 years ago. There is no difference. Same scenario, different names and faces. I say we should proceed with caution. Any harm in that? I don't think so. I personally don't care what he does with his money, but I do care about what happens to our sport. If this thing crashes and burns who is going to pick up the pieces this time? Think long and hard about that. Nobody will touch us now. All of a sudden we have this new, rich friend. A match made in hell is what I call it, but Im willing to watch this play itself out. If nothing else, it'll be interesting, just like watching the Mackey-RJR fiasco.

 

[onepocketchump]

Again, you can't just simply throw money at a sport in order for it to succeed. Organization needs to be implemented with people who are knowledgeable about said sport (the players) and billiard industry participants working together for a common goal, that being the success of the sport. Also, cooperation with other governing bodies is necessary in order for the tour to gain a sense of legitimacy. To the best of my knowledge, the IPT has made no overtures to any other recognized governing body of pool & if their current attitude is anything to judge, they won't be doing so at all.

FWIW I was at the Sigel-Jones match. It was fun, glamorous AND there was some real good pool. Yeah Loree missed some shots but she was clearly VERY nervous as well. Sigel played lights out. It was a GREAT tribute to the sport. If the rest of the events are like this then pool will definitely be on the radar again.

Now as to what organization needs; You mean like Charlie Ursitti, one of pool's most respected referees and promoters, like Deno Andrews, like the William Morris Agency, like a Fox television executive. Is this the kind of depth of experience you think a new organization needs?

To update your knowledge Kevin has indeed made overtures to the existing organizations to solicit thier advice.

Does this do anything to improve your negative outlook? If it means anything to you, all the pros I know are VERY excited about this and the opportunities it presents.

John

 

[Coop1701]

I come to AZ a lot..., I read almost every post. I have to say that I very seldom post or get involved in certain types of debates on the board. I have been thinking about this non-stop for 3 days. The reason being is that I'm passionate about pool. I love this game. I love to watch people in bars play, I love to watch it at live events. I also will watch it in almost any form on TV. ..,and most of all I love to just play. I play in a league, and I'm pretty stout. Even though most people have referred to us as hack players. The lines seem to be draw in the sand by people on both ends of the debate.

I would like to say this..., some sports grow and mature, some sports survive and some sports die a cold horrible death. There is nothing wrong with the IPT attempting to do what they are doing. For years, Nabisco sponsored Men's Tennis, and Virginia Slims sponsored Women's Tennis. The money was decent, but the tennis players of those days had to scrap and dig for every dime that got. If you didn't play 48 tournaments a year. You couldn't afford to play the next year. Then the WTA came out of no where and every one talked exactly like the people on this forum are doing now. One group saying it's awesome and one saying OMG they're going to destroy everything.

I realize nothing is going to stop you guys from debating both sides of the issue. That's fine, it took business people like this guy to help the WTA. It took marketing people like he hired to turn a run down motorsport called Nascar in to a billion dollar business. It also took people like Dale Earnhardt and Andre Agassi to bring their sports to the fore front. In saying that, the Keith McCready's (Mr personality), the Earl Stricklands, the Jennifer Barrettas and Allison Fishers, (and yes even those hack League players) will bring pool to the next level. Giving people another sport that they can cheer on their favorite player....

Have fun guys, I know the debate will continue and I respect both sides of the coin. I must say Blackjack has taught me a lot just reading his posts, and reviewing his lessons. What a scholar you are. But I wanted to say my piece, and I hope you all have a wonderful weekend.

 

[SlimShafty]

What? camel didn't want to sell pool? they only wanted to sell tobacco? yup that's the point of advertising the last time I checked it was to sell your product! do you think Ford plops down millions to sell golf????? Hell no Ford wants to sell cars and trucks, as do any advertisers.

It sounds to me like your don't want to ever accept outside advertising or investors, we have insiders running things now and it's a mess. We are stuck with insiders and they ran the BCA off the tracks, so that didn't work.

Advertisers want to sell products, they are only concerned with ratings and whats wrong with that? the money they pay in turn helps you promote and move your project forward. Kevin loves pool and yes his ultimate goal is to turn a profit or maybe sell the tour if it becomes a viable product and yes pool must be sold as a product, all sports are sold as a product, nobody pays to see a bunch of local yocals play a sport all half arsed and not organized. it takes business to make it work, it takes outside money, business and advertising etc..

Everybody involved understands risk and understands Kevin wants to sell his Natural Cures, or Olhausen wants to sell tables, or a Pepsi wants to sell soda. The players want to sell there talent and skill, do you think the players would be willing to do this for nothing? no and neither should Kevin, everybody is entitled to make good money, it's how we live.

But at this point Kevin will put up the money to try to be successful, you can bet your last dollar he doesn't want to fail and pool does not have any get rich quick back door. If Kevin spends 15 million and it fails, how in the world do you think he's getting that back? The payoff for him could be HUGE in respect and money, and he does love the sport, he is no different then business men who buy sports teams.

You simply can't pass up a chance like this, unless you got 10 million hidden somewhere, even if I put up 50,000 and so do you and 10 others, that will not even get us in the front door, media production crew alone would bust us, most players have a hard enough time to make a living so don't expect a group of players to be able to foot the bill. So a grass roots effort will not get pool where it could or should be, and if left up to the BCA or WPA we are doomed to stay status quo. Everything has it's positives and negatives, there is no squeaky clean deal out their, it's dog eat dog world where money is important to living.

And also this is certainly not the same thing with different faces and names.

Did the people involved with camel have a PR firm? no
Did they hire the best talent agency in the world? no
did they hire a top TV production company? no
Did they do the proper legwork to see if it had a chance? no

Kevin is hiring a top flight crew to run this and has the most interesting ideas in a long time, and most importantly he understands it all starts with paying the players first, and make a product people might be interested in seeing, not the same old tried methods.

 

[vagabond]

Ideals and Naivity

Another thing... Camel did not want to sell pool.. they wanted to sell tobacco products

Mackey eventually sued Camel, and was awarded $886,000. I don't know what he did with that money, do you? It didn't go back into resuscitating Professional Pool. He took the money and ran. Bob Jewett, if you're out there , correct me if I'm worng about any of this. I'm pretty sure I'm not.
If nothing else, it'll be interesting, just like watching the Mackey-RJR fiasco.

Hi,
Sponsers endorse the sports to sell their products and they are not philanthropists.
When DON MACKY was hired as the commisioner of pro pool was he given any SALARY ? the answer is `NO`.
Has any PRO PLAYER ever even discussed that issue?The answer is `NO`
Has any PRO PLAYER asked how Don and Diane were going to pay their bills?
Do PRO PLAYERS think that Don OWED his services freely to the Pro players association?I thought that SLAVERY was ABOLISHED from USA.
What is Bob Jewets role in that fiasco? I did not know MR.Jewett played significant roll at that time unless he was a behind the screen player.I do remember vaguely that he wrote some articles in Billiard Digest regards this matter.

Lets us take a more PRAGMATIC approach.
Vagabond

 

[wahcheck]

Gee Whiz

Well, I guess if Mr. Trudeau would just take his money, go home, and leave the pool world alone, we could all just sit around, and continue lamenting about how the sport has no money............

 

[vader93490]

Mr. Vader,
If you know where Mackey is, let's go golfing. You and I have discussed this at great length privately and you know how I feel about this from every angle. Until we unite and put the right people in the right positions we will continue to get nowhere.

Yes we have, Mr. Blackjack. Likewise, you know how I feel about this IPT situation as well. My apologies as I didn't notice your reply before.

The last I heard about Don Mackey was that he was living in the central Florida area, around the town of Orlando as I recall. He had started a used car business but it went under. As I said, the information is old and very likely is outdated. I'm guessing the car business is where that Camel cash wound up at.

In any case, if he is still living there I guess we could go try out some new putters so we can find out which ones float. After our putter buoyancy experiment I am fairly certain we can recommend something to a mutual friend of ours next time either of us sees or talks to him. Or possibly we could accidentally slice a few long drives & determine which drivers & woods float best?

 

[Rude Dog]

"If you want the ultimate, you have to pay the ultimate price." Hmmm, where have I seen this before? Vader, your signature says it all.

 

[vader93490]

FWIW I was at the Sigel-Jones match. It was fun, glamorous AND there was some real good pool. Yeah Loree missed some shots but she was clearly VERY nervous as well. Sigel played lights out. It was a GREAT tribute to the sport. If the rest of the events are like this then pool will definitely be on the radar again.

It will be on the radar, possibly, but it will be in the wrong way once again. Pool will be regarded as an absolute joke. Calling that whole publicity stunt a "tournament" was a slap in the face to pool & for you to make the insulting, idiotic & just plain stupid statement stating that whole fiasco was a "GREAT tribute" lessens my opinion of you even further than it was. Let me guess, you probably think Mike is the 2005 "World 8-ball Champion", right?

Now as to what organization needs; You mean like Charlie Ursitti, one of pool's most respected referees and promoters, like Deno Andrews, like the William Morris Agency, like a Fox television executive. Is this the kind of depth of experience you think a new organization needs?

I'll tell you what John, let's get in touch with RJ Reynolds again as long as we're at it and see if they want to do another pool tour? Oh wait, I've got it, let's try Philip Morris and see what they have to say about the prospect of another big money pool tour. Never mind, I know, let's call up some guy I heard about by the name of Trudeau. You know, he's the guy that makes those phony infomercials touting natural cures for various ailments and defrauds the American public out of millions and millions of dollars without giving it a second thought. Yeah, that's exactly who we need tampering with professional pool, Kevin "Mackey" Trudeau with his ill-gotten wealth & well-established criminal record.

To update your knowledge Kevin has indeed made overtures to the existing organizations to solicit thier advice.

Is that so? Please post up any letters, communiques or links you have then. I'd like to look over them & see what exactly was said. I would also like to see the responses from the other recognized governing bodies of pool regarding the IPT. The last I heard, the WPA was very skittish about having anything to do with the IPT. And, considering Mr. Trudeau's less than stellar background, I don't blame them at all.

Does this do anything to improve your negative outlook? If it means anything to you, all the pros I know are VERY excited about this and the opportunities it presents.

John

Ok John, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt & answer your personal query this one time. Go back and re-read what I said earlier in this thread regarding my thoughts about applying to the IPT. That should hopefully give you some inkling as to how I felt about it then & how I continue to feel about it now.

Furthermore, my outlook on this whole IPT operation is not "negative" as you & others like to claim, but rather it's matter-of-fact & brutally honest. I've seen this same tired charade played out before with Don Mackey & the PBTA & his so-called promises. Those very promises wound up being broken left & right and big surprise, Don Mackey jumps ship & the men wound up not getting paid & being dropped in the trick bag. And ultimately, the men had absolutely no tour & virtually no media coverage whatsoever and the sport slipped further back into obscurity than when Don Mackey first popped up on the pool scene.

As I stated previously, the IPT is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I just hope that the players participating in it have good sense to protect themselves when this whole thing blows up in their faces and disintegrates. Hopefully they will wake up & come to their senses about the whole IPT scam before zero hour.

To Rude Dog: You can infer what you like from my signature, that's your business as I could really care less what you think. However, if you can't add anything more useful regarding the IPT & other related items being discussed in this thread I think it would be best for you to stick to your original pledge of not posting anything more on it.

 

[Sweet Marissa]

The last I heard, the WPA was very skittish about having anything to do with the IPT.

I addressed this months ago: I can understand if they were wary about the IPT, but why the ban? Why limit your players from trying to better themselves? It's because they feel threatened and that's the only reason they have for being "skittish".

 

[vader93490]

I addressed this months ago: I can understand if they were wary about the IPT, but why the ban? Why limit your players from trying to better themselves? It's because they feel threatened and that's the only reason they have for being "skittish".

Marissa, I've already made my thoughts & reasoning known regarding this whole IPT issue. If you missed it, feel free to go back and read over it.

 

[Blackjack]

I addressed this months ago: I can understand if they were wary about the IPT, but why the ban? Why limit your players from trying to better themselves? It's because they feel threatened and that's the only reason they have for being "skittish".

Marissa

I never called for a ban from anyone. I don't feel "skittish" or threatened either. So you are 100% wrong in your statement as it applies to me. You've recently flip-flopped on this issue for whatever reason.(???) All I have said, is that this will not and can not work in the long term. If we do not have a back up plan our sport will suffer even more devastation. There is nothing "skittish" about that. There are facts to back it up, and many leaders within the billiards industry share my concerns. While this may look attractive in the short term, the fact remains - if he doesn't start making more than he shelling out for this party - it won't last. I'll stick to what I have said, and I won't flip sides when I see the momentum (or popular opinion) isn't in my favor anymore.

 

[onepocketchump]

It will be on the radar, possibly, but it will be in the wrong way once again. Pool will be regarded as an absolute joke. Calling that whole publicity stunt a "tournament" was a slap in the face to pool & for you to make the insulting, idiotic & just plain stupid statement stating that whole fiasco was a "GREAT tribute" lessens my opinion of you even further than it was. Let me guess, you probably think Mike is the 2005 "World 8-ball Champion", right?



I'll tell you what John, let's get in touch with RJ Reynolds again as long as we're at it and see if they want to do another pool tour? Oh wait, I've got it, let's try Philip Morris and see what they have to say about the prospect of another big money pool tour. Never mind, I know, let's call up some guy I heard about by the name of Trudeau. You know, he's the guy that makes those phony infomercials touting natural cures for various ailments and defrauds the American public out of millions and millions of dollars without giving it a second thought. Yeah, that's exactly who we need tampering with professional pool, Kevin "Mackey" Trudeau with his ill-gotten wealth & well-established criminal record.

Why don't you? For one thing you can't advertise tobacco on TV but you can advertise books with "Natural Cures" in them. Before you go talkign about ill-gotten gains you should learn a little history first and see where the tobacco money came from in the first place. It's clear that you have a beef with Kevin Trudeau and his past and that you want to liken him to Don Mackey. Don Mackey isn't fit to wipe the bottom of Kevin's shoes.

What are YOU doing for the betterment of the sport. What is YOUR solution? How exactly do you see that the professional side of pool will be worse off if Kevin quits in a year? Will tournaments cease to exist? Will professional pool players just melt into depression and all drink the kool-aid at one last US Open? Will the UPA just fold up and be no more?





Is that so? Please post up any letters, communiques or links you have then. I'd like to look over them & see what exactly was said. I would also like to see the responses from the other recognized governing bodies of pool regarding the IPT. The last I heard, the WPA was very skittish about having anything to do with the IPT. And, considering Mr. Trudeau's less than stellar background, I don't blame them at all.


I am sure you would like to be on the inside. As it is though, you aren't and you aren't going to get there though me. The last I heard was the WPA whining about not getting in on the action. The WPA has NOTHING to offer Kevin. NOTHING. If the WPA had done it's job then pool would be as big as tennis and golf and the IPT would just be a sideshow venue. The truth is though that the WPA is POWERLESS to govern pool. And they have proven that they will SELL OUT given the chance. ex. The 9-Ball men's WC.



Ok John, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt & answer your personal query this one time. Go back and re-read what I said earlier in this thread regarding my thoughts about applying to the IPT. That should hopefully give you some inkling as to how I felt about it then & how I continue to feel about it now.


I know how YOU feel about it. Your feelings however are not REALITY. You said that an organization needs leadership and I gave you the examples of leadership that Kevin is putting in place and your best response is that we should ask Camel if they want to sponsor another pool tour. Come on man, surely you can do better than that.

Furthermore, my outlook on this whole IPT operation is not "negative" as you & others like to claim, but rather it's matter-of-fact & brutally honest. I've seen this same tired charade played out before with Don Mackey & the PBTA & his so-called promises. Those very promises wound up being broken left & right and big surprise, Don Mackey jumps ship & the men wound up not getting paid & being dropped in the trick bag. And ultimately, the men had absolutely no tour & virtually no media coverage whatsoever and the sport slipped further back into obscurity than when Don Mackey first popped up on the pool scene.


You are certainly being BRUTAL. As for honest and factual, I'd say that you are neither as most of your ranting has been simply specualtive, that is nothing more than fortunetelling. The factual difference that you have failed to mention between Mackey and Trudeau is that Mackey was not an investor into pro pool he was a paid employee of it. Don Mackey was elected to a PAID position for the PBT. That's it. He was not a successful busnessman williing to invest millions of his money into professional pool. All he proved is that HE could NOT control the players nor work with anyone else.

As I stated previously, the IPT is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I just hope that the players participating in it have good sense to protect themselves when this whole thing blows up in their faces and disintegrates. Hopefully they will wake up & come to their senses about the whole IPT scam before zero hour.

Wake up and come to their senses?????? Get a grip. A professional pool player plays pool for a living. If Kevin Trudeau says he wants his house painted should the painter decline the job because of Kevin's past? Money knows no race, no gender, no past, present or future. It is just an instrument to transact with. I would SO MUCH rather have a Kevin Trudeau selling HOPE in the form a book hawking 'natural cures' backing pool than a tobacco company whose products are PROVEN to cause premature death.

To Rude Dog: You can infer what you like from my signature, that's your business as I could really care less what you think. However, if you can't add anything more useful regarding the IPT & other related items being discussed in this thread I think it would be best for you to stick to your original pledge of not posting anything more on it.

And perhaps you ought to refrain from offering up your morals as fact.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

Yes, Mike Sigel is the current IPT World 8-Ball Champion. The Carom Players also have two professional organizations where there are sometimes two different world champions.

John

 

[bobroberts]

Right now pro pool is in the toilet and anything that helps to promote it can only do good.Who would of thought you would be watching poker on T.V. If it were not for millions of dollars.I could not care less if none of the players today get in on some easy money.The sport needs new blood and new money.
Plus it does not matter what anyone on these boards think.It will be the general public that decides the fate of pool making it.