"Blending" a Ferrule....hummm

Sanding

BLACKHEARTCUES said:
After rereading your post, I think you may be too agressive with your sanding. Remember that the shaft wood is softer, than the ferrule material. If you continue to have problems, you can wrap a couple of layers of masking tape around the shaft, just behinh the ferrule & sand the ferrule, without taking the wood with it...JER
The least amount of sanding, the better. I actually have to do very little sanding...mostly to bring everything to a smooth finish as opposed to sanding to make the ferrule smaller. I use the cutting tool for that. I also wet sand starting with 400. Does anyone else wet sand during this final process?

Gene

Excellent replys fellas. This is greatly appreciated. Nice to know that the few I have problem with put me as close to perfection as most other repairmen/cuemakers get. Comforting but not satisfied. ;)
 
Cuedog said:
I fully understand what you mean, and I agree with keeping to one procedure.

What I don't understand is why you cut the ferrule down a few thousandths before installing the tip. My guess is that you feel you can sight up the tip centering process better with a smaller ferrule diameter.

I ask this because I almost always place the tip on right after I glue and screw the ferrule on. Just curious. Thanks for your input.

I do not use the same lathe for ferrules as I do for tips. Ferrules go on with a metal lathe, tips go on with the Porper lathe.
I do install the tip before I finish sand the ferrule on the Porper though.
Also, I do NOT like cutting a tip with anything but a razor blade.
 
Clearification

Sheldon said:
I do not use the same lathe for ferrules as I do for tips. Ferrules go on with a metal lathe, tips go on with the Porper lathe.
I do install the tip before I finish sand the ferrule on the Porper though.
Also, I do NOT like cutting a tip with anything but a razor blade.
So, if I understand you correctly Sheldon, do you get the ferrule cut down to the sanding point with the metal lathe and then switch to the Porper to complete the process? You emphatically indicated that you "do NOT like cutting down the tip with anything but a razor." Why is that? Also, if you are doing a clean and re-con (I do this with every ferrule job.) on the same shaft, which lathe do you perform that service on? Thanks

Gene
 
Cuedog said:
So, if I understand you correctly Sheldon, do you get the ferrule cut down to the sanding point with the metal lathe and then switch to the Porper to complete the process?
Yes, this is exactly the case.
Cuedog said:
You emphatically indicated that you "do NOT like cutting down the tip with anything but a razor." Why is that? Also, if you are doing a clean and re-con (I do this with every ferrule job.) on the same shaft, which lathe do you perform that service on?
While you can trim a tip with a single-point or other cutter, without care and diligent sharpening, you can put detrimental pressure on the tip, causing it to mis-shape or soften. I like to compress the tip slightly with a concave center, then trim with a razor blade. It's super fast and very accurate.
Unless I am actually cutting something down, I use the Porper for pretty much all my finish work.
 
Gene, We all have our own methods, and I've used most described here at one time or another Myself, so any of them can have the same results, just depends on what works best for the individual. I have cut them with the tip on also, and had success. The method I use now is simular to what sheldon mentioned. It takes some time to to get the hang of It, but I really like the cut of the razor on the tip, so I basically turn the ferrule first, face it off, apply the tip, and then use the razor method to trim the tip. After that 400 grit and up works fine for polishing. I do not have issues with tapering the ends/tip, but then again, I am very aware of that issue, and apply even pressure through the ferrule not just on the tip, so It's never a problem. that's the nice thing about the razor method. It does'nt require you to sand on the tip as much to even It out or polish. It all starts with a good cut on the ferrule in the first place though.

If You are not familiar with the razor method, then I highly recomend you seeing it done before ever attempting it. It can be very dangerous, and not something you want to guess at on how to do. You really need to see it in action first.

When I face, and tip, I chuck It up closer in the jaws, then when using the razor method I rechuck to give me room to work. It's rare that I do a tip without rechucking atleast once. This does not include dialing the work piece in.

Sounds like Your doing pretty good to me By what you said, If most are coming out good, then your probably just running into a tuff one every once in a while. I am picky when It comes to that area of a shaft, I only feel good when you can run your finger through It, and not feel anything where the ferrule meets the shaft or where the tip does. Anything less I'm not happy with, but sometimes they can still be alittle stubborn, and ocasionally despite My best efforts, I'm not always completely satisfied.

On the sanding, I sand dry with wet/dry paper, but you could wetsand I suppose. If It were Me, I would try to limit It to the ferrule though, and I might be concerned with any water soaking in the tip too deeply If It was already on the ferrule that is. Also even when I dry sand the ferrule, and the tip is on, I like to burmish the tip before sanding or seal It with ca. Some tips would be fine, but some will stain with the dust from the ferrule, and you can see it in the tip after the final burmishing, So not only do you have to worry about staining the ferrule with the tip, but the same goes for the opposite if your really picky:confused: :D


Greg
 
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> The Hightower live center I have is indeed small enough to take a free cut,the nose on it is a little smaller than 3/8,and about 1/4 long. I get the sides of the tip pretty close,then take the normal right-left cut to match the tip and ferrule perfect,then use my normal sealing/staining/burnishing and finish shaping the tip after that. I am planning on eventually replacing my 2 Hightower live centers with the compact mini-lathe live center with modular points. I'd also like to make a specialized tip center using a Fafnir roller skate bearing that has a 3/8 spacer built into the inner race that I've had in a junk box for years,a remnant of my speed skating days. Tommy D.
 
Cuedog said:
Thanks Greg

Does anyone else wetsand?

Gene

When you wet sand, all of the particals that you take off, are suspended in the water & deposited into every nook & crany, like white mud. I don't think wet sanding fits this job...JER
 
Wet Sanding

I didn't notice you mention if you are having trouble with one particular type of ferrule or not. If you are wetsanding, and using some of the fiber ferrules, you may be causing them to swell (and if it isn't fiber, if you get any of the water on the shaft right next to ferrule you may be causing the shaft to swell) and during the rest of the process of the reconditioning you may be "sweating" this back out causing the lip. It may not have anything to do with it, but I can't see any good coming of wet sanding on a ferrule job. Just my .02

~Shakes
 
Great Forum

Note to self: Stop wet sanding ferrule jobs. I knew I would pick up something from this thread. This is a great forum to be a part of. I'm hooked!

I was shown about 12 years ago how to use a blade to trim the tip, but I have never used that method and I can't wait to have someone show me again. At the time I also learned to use the tool post to trim them and I adopted that method and have used it since.

Thanks again to everyone that contributed.

Gene
 
Cuedog said:
I fully understand what you mean, and I agree with keeping to one procedure.

What I don't understand is why you cut the ferrule down a few thousandths before installing the tip. My guess is that you feel you can sight up the tip centering process better with a smaller ferrule diameter.

I ask this because I almost always place the tip on right after I glue and screw the ferrule on. Just curious. Thanks for your input.

Yeah it's easier to center the tip compared to a way oversized ferrule.
 
Excellent!

Sheldon said:
Great video Sheldon! What's really nice is that you are performing this on a Porper which is one of the same lathes I have. I've already viewed the video 10x's.

I'm going to try it today a few times. I'll let you know how it works out if I can still type! :rolleyes:

Thanks for your help with that and the past forum discussions. I actually remember the one regarding what blade/razor to use. Good stuff.

Gene
 
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