bonus ball is the real deal

Bigtruck said:
Here is a Pro event from 1992 that was ALL offense and the match was split up into 2 -20 Minute segments. I believe there was also a timer for each game. check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qphuIlYQgk
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Funny thing is I was at this event while working in Memphis. This was an awesomely entertaining format. In the video at the very beginning Earl jumps a pretty tough jump with a full length Meucci. Texas' own Roger Griffis did pretty well in this if I remember correctly. He was a very fast player for a big guy. At the pool room (I forget what the room was called) JA was trying to match up a big set with Reed Pierce for a large amount. Reed was getting the 7 ball but he wanted JA to play for a 10 hour minimum. Nick Varner was having nothing to do with a 10 hour time limit and would only allow JA to lock up two sets. As a result, shortly after that discussion, Nick and JA drove off in their Lincoln Towncar.
 
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Hungarian said:
Funny thing is I was at this event while working in Memphis. This was an awesomely entertaining format. In the video at the very beginning Earl jumps a pretty tough jump with a full length Meucci. Texas' own Roger Griffis did pretty well in this if I remember correctly. He was a very fast player for a big guy. At the pool room (I forget what the room was called) JA was trying to match up a big set with Reed Pierce for a large amount. Reed was getting the 7 ball but he wanted JA to play for a 10 hour minimum. Nick Varner was having nothing to do with a 10 hour time limit and would only allow JA to lock up two sets. As a result, shortly after that discussion, Nick and JA drove off in their Lincoln Towncar.
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That room was probably High Pockets. If you watch the video closely, you will see a High Pockets banner in the TV arena. I'll be doing a live feed from there in 2 weeks. Lots of action there for all levels.

Ray
 
lfigueroa said:
No. You can't do that. You have to have a PR plan that starts way before a press release. And then, after the PR and cute video are out, you have to be prepared for the follow up. There would also be things like a well thought out strategy for introducing the new product to market, but it doesn't look like we're talking about anything that sophisticated in this case.

Lou Figueroa
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Why don't you offer your services?
 
Celtic said:
You can use shot clocks in any cue sport. People already have used shot clocks in 9-ball, 10-ball, 8-ball, ect...

I agree the score board and visable shot clock is a welcome addition to pool but did you need to create a whole new game to introduce one? It would have been a great addition to any game, the board for 8-ball could have a 30 second shot clock, show the match score, show each opponents designated balls (stripes or solids or colors such as red and yellow if 8-ball was ever made a mainstream pro game).

The shot clock I always thought would truly be awesome for 8-ball would be a "running average" shotclock where you need to play each shot "on average" less then 30 seconds but the average shot time is based off of the last 10 shots. A foul thus occurs if you ever go beyond 300 seconds or 5 minutes within your last 10 shots.

Such a shot clock as above would be easy to program and the only thing a ref/time keeper would have to do would be to hit a button at the commencement of each players turn at the table and push the same button at the pocketing of each ball. For the player they would have visible on the score/timeboard the time/shot average of the last 10 shots and they would have the total time used in their last NINE shots so that they know how much time they have for the next shot to not exceed 300 seconds.

There would be no verbal warnings, there would be no audible chimes warning you of 10 seconds left. It would be the players responsibility to keep track of their time by looking up at the board on occasion and shooting at a pace where they do not need to worry about time issues.

Snooker has time fouls, I never knew they did but when you watch pro snooker they shoot the game relatively quickly. Unlike pool you never know the time requirement is ever really there and instead simple see people playing quick snooker, that is great for the sport and the fans.

Pools idea of having warning chimes going off and refs interupting players in mid stroke on a ball to tell them they have 10 seconds to shoot is amature in the extreme and needs to change.
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I think I'd prefer something in the 'who pots the most balls in 30 mins wins' type format, to give emphasis and reward to those who can think quickly and are prepared to demonstrate risk. Scoring would be points based, rather than rack based, with additional points for break n runs, combinations, banks etc. A chess style stop clock can be built into the table, for players to press at the start and finish of their visits.

I doubt there's a perfect format, however, but what's quite clear is the game will die completely if we sanction players who take 5 minutes weighing up each shot. Pool must be instinctive and spontaneous and not measured and predictable.

Thrills n spills, please.
 
Hungarian said:
Sorry, ther is a video out there.

This should clear up any questions you may have...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brBlTo9hqac
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I hope you are kidding-having pros with a vested interest saying it's great clears up what?

and that scoreboard is essential to play? Archer says 'get a scoreboard' They look like $1500 items to me. It'll be a looooooooooooooooong time before pool rooms invest in those.
 
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lfigueroa said:
No. You can't do that. You have to have a PR plan that starts way before a press release. And then, after the PR and cute video are out, you have to be prepared for the follow up. There would also be things like a well thought out strategy for introducing the new product to market, but it doesn't look like we're talking about anything that sophisticated in this case.

Lou Figueroa
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I agree, to be perfectly honest, I am not sure what they have to sell. You can play the game if you wish with any common set of balls and you don't really need the electronic score board either. So what "IS" the product they are investing all this money in? Even if it was to become popular people don't need what they have to sell.

Years ago the game 7 ball that was played on the TV matches got a lot of promotion and to no avail. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is no shortage of games that can be played on a pool table. All one needs to pick up a rule book. I don't see the void this game fills that people have been waiting for. It is just another game in a list of many very good games that can be played many people may have never heard of.

I used to go in a bar where they played Cowboy pool and the players were on waiting list to play. The game went all day long. In fact if it is just for amusement, players make up their own games all the time, it can be endless. Pool Table, balls and some cues is all you need.

Back to what I mentioned of the risks of forums. This is a whole new world now . It used to be just a saying but today it is reality.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on".

Would you ever recommend someone try to promote something on forums and expose themselves like that. It seems once someone does it two camps will form and who needs that. You don't want your product to be the middle of controversy right out of the box. It doesn't matter if the neg's are unfounded, unfair or even untrue, you will be on the defensive from the start.
 
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All this is another pool game for the current players and will do nothing to grow the sport.

Oh, if you need special equipment to play this, then it is really a new way for some people to make money from pool and not growing the sport.

There needs to be a group whose sole purpose to to promote the current group of pool games to new markets, ie. youth and seniors/retirees, schools, city governments. Ever wonder how a city can justify a baseball field and soccer fields not hardly anything for pool? Wouldn't inter-city leagues or schools be cool?

There needs to be a way to get out the word that there are pool players that are not hustlers, gamblers, scums, those that only think of the money in the game and not the value of the game itself.

Until there is a growth in players, pool will be in the fringe. No personality/character, no new game is gonna help. It is gonna take people whose real passion is for the sport of pool and not how much money will be made.

There needs to be more pool rooms and not bars with pool tables. Not everyone that plays pool at the high level enjoys playing in bars. There are people that just want to play pool and be in a place where that is the main focus. In other words, the general imagine of pool needs to be addressed.

There needs to a higher level of professionalism in tournament play from the players, the ref and the fans. Until the people closest to the sport treat the sport with more respect, no one outside the sport will.


Anyway.....FWIW
 
Nostroke said:
I hope you are kidding-having pros with a vested interest saying it's great clears up what?

and that scoreboard is essential to play? Archer says 'get a scoreboard' They look like $1500 items to me. It'll be a looooooooooooooooong time before pool rooms invest in those.
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C.J. Wiley is a pro with NO vested interest in Bonus Ball at all, and yet he's saying some great things about it over on Facebook.

And the "scoreboard" is a disc that comes with the set of balls and can be put in any pc or laptop that has a dvd drive (of course, a touch-screen laptop is the easiest to use). The special set of balls are not necessary to play the game, however. You can use 4 solids as the purple (each with a numerical value of 1), and 4 stripes as the orange (each with a numerical value of 2), and the 8-ball as the "bonus" ball with a numerical value of 3. You can then keep a running score in your head, or on paper, or with coins under the rails.

When played at the pro level (3-pocket version), Bonus Ball becomes a very strategic game since you can only pocket balls in your V-pattern, while remembering which color ball you're on, and also which color ball your opponent is on and where his pockets are, so that you can leave him with a tough shot in case you miss. This is where the scoreboard helps a lot because it always tells you which balls each of you are supposed to be shooting.

Roger
 
I've stayed out of commenting because I really don't like to participate in all the back and forth on positions where people have their mind set. I do say, give it a chance. Most people look at this for current players, and yes I can see how hard core players think it nonsensical.

If this is something that MAYBE can attract new young players, then MAYBE they might migrate to more conventional games as they age and take their disposable income to the halls. Let's face it folks, one day all the old timers are gonna die, and with it the last remaining pool halls. Sorry for being callous, but this is true IF you do not get NEW players. It is simple demographics.

The youth love fancy and fast. The scoreboard - streamed to a small flat screen is awesome. All the group of friends can see the interactive display. Think electronic scoring for bowling.

Seriously, it seems that many on this forum - not calling anyone out - are almost silently wishing for ANY new idea to fail. Kind of like all you APA bashers. I mean really, do you have any idea how much money is spent on our sport by some of these. Most of the very low handicappers on my team have spend hundreds of dollars each on equipment that otherwise would never have been spent. In addition, hundreds of dollars every week on food and drink at the facility. Sorry, off topic but relevant in my view for the success of our sport in the future.

ANYTHING that brings new players to the game is good. Not saying this will, but I certainly hope it does.

BTW, I played this once at Marietta Billiard Club, and thought it a fun an interesting game. Would I play a league, not sure. But to have a challenge table or something dedicated to it would be a hoot IMO.

Ranting done....
 
acousticsguru said:
I remember that promo tape. It's nice and sleek, dare I say typically American in that watching it seems to give the viewer lots of thumbs up on how wonderful the game is, but when it's over, one realizes one still knows nothing about the game itself (other than that one appears to be required to spend a goodly sum to buy a score board and perhaps special set of balls to find out what it's about in the first place).

My background is teaching, so what I see is that the party who is trying to sell an idea or product is playing a didactical hide and seek trying to make the audience guess at what, here the seller, has in mind. That rarely works, but usually has the audience waiting for that information to be revealed at some later point, or losing track of the apparent enigma and cease bothering.

Apparently those famous players all played in an event that was filmed? Put those matches on e.g. YT using their names in the head lines, pointing out over and over again that the rule set can be downloaded/printed out from your web site, and everyone will scramble to get a copy of what's being offered for free first, then maybe buy the product.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
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didactical is cool word thanks for using it. I will add it to my lexicon.

didactical - definition
didacticaldi·dac·tic (d -d k t k) also di·dac·ti·cal (-t -k l). adj. 1. Intended to instruct. 2. Morally instructive. 3. Inclined to teach or moralize excessively.


As to Bonus Ball I think it will be great if they can get people to go watch it live in the arena and also can get a spot on TV preferably live. Also they need to retain advertising sponsorship to put money into the game. If they can do that then this will be great whether it is ever played on the amateur level or not. However if they give us a new game requiring equipment purchases to fund the show then the pros will not being a Bonus Ball check for very long.

I think any pool related jump will require the attention of the public to watch the game thus bring the attention of advertising sponsors. The money will either come from advertsing sponsors or else by pay per view purchasers same as the UFC. NASCAR, baseball, basketball and football do not make money by it being played by the masses. They all fund the elite pros by it being watched. Get people to watch pool and the money will follow. I like to play and I like to watch not enough people know about pool streaming and the TAR ppv. Pool is never live on TV frequently it is replayed over and over again.

Get Bonus Ball live on TV it will be watched it will make money. No audience no money no Bonus Ball for very long.
 
elvicash said:
didactical is cool word thanks for using it. I will add it to my lexicon.

didactical - definition
didacticaldi·dac·tic (d -d k t k) also di·dac·ti·cal (-t -k l). adj. 1. Intended to instruct. 2. Morally instructive. 3. Inclined to teach or moralize excessively.
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Please forgive the nitpicking: although the two terms are often used synonymously/interchangeably, the above appears to be the dictionary definition of "didactic", whereas "didactical" means based on/to do with schemes/designs of didactics (= principles of teaching) - at least in my book.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
I just think people need to wait and give it a chance, soon enough you will get to see a match and what its about. This is much bigger than selling a new set of balls, haha. It seems many are so negative, not sure if there life sucks or that is just there MO but the people involved with Bonus Ball are all pretty positive and the players are excited. The crowd that watched the show seemed to have fun too and for watching the game for the first time understood most of what was going on.

I would suggest just to keep an open mind and think positive, when you see it I believe you will be surprised and this is not just a gimmick game to draw in new players although it will. It will also interest the diehards who like one pocket, banks, straight pool, snooker and rotation games, its got it all. Its fast paced action with a 24 second shot clock, time limit on the match, people wont be snoozing watching it and you will always know what is going on with the scoreboard and also the multi rail banks and great shots you will see in this game.

Bonus Ball is giving it a shot, taking a chance, its not doing the same old stuff and expecting the masses to embrace it because as you know there has been little to no interest that is why ESPN wants nothing to do with pool. Everything is new and fresh which is what this game needs, the old guard is worried about it mainly because of how it might affect them and there pockets because they have been doing the same thing for a long time so why make changes. The big picture is pool and the game getting out of this rut its stuck in along with the players who have dedicated their lives to the game actually getting a good paycheck.

Bonus Ball makes pool look more like a sport than a game with teams, jerseys, scoreboard, shot clock, time limit on the games and a point scoring system for every ball made. If you think back at when you first played certain games, like one pocket or 14.1 you had to learn rules and rules are different and unique for all games and even the same game can have several different sets of rules, this is no different then that.
 
At first blush I like the non-power break aspect of the game. The promo looked good until CW showed up. That guy just puts me on tilt. I want to just slap him in the face and yell.... I'M RICK __J A M E S __B I T C H!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqD6q_8DpLU&feature=player_detailpage#t=58s


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1dBstAIYtQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=120s <---- Here is what should be done
 
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Fast Lenny said:
I just think people need to wait and give it a chance, soon enough you will get to see a match and what its about. This is much bigger than selling a new set of balls, haha. It seems many are so negative, not sure if there life sucks or that is just there MO but the people involved with Bonus Ball are all pretty positive and the players are excited. The crowd that watched the show seemed to have fun too and for watching the game for the first time understood most of what was going on.

I would suggest just to keep an open mind and think positive, when you see it I believe you will be surprised and this is not just a gimmick game to draw in new players although it will. It will also interest the diehards who like one pocket, banks, straight pool, snooker and rotation games, its got it all. Its fast paced action with a 24 second shot clock, time limit on the match, people wont be snoozing watching it and you will always know what is going on with the scoreboard and also the multi rail banks and great shots you will see in this game.

Bonus Ball is giving it a shot, taking a chance, its not doing the same old stuff and expecting the masses to embrace it because as you know there has been little to no interest that is why ESPN wants nothing to do with pool. Everything is new and fresh which is what this game needs, the old guard is worried about it mainly because of how it might affect them and there pockets because they have been doing the same thing for a long time so why make changes. The big picture is pool and the game getting out of this rut its stuck in along with the players who have dedicated their lives to the game actually getting a good paycheck.

Bonus Ball makes pool look more like a sport than a game with teams, jerseys, scoreboard, shot clock, time limit on the games and a point scoring system for every ball made. If you think back at when you first played certain games, like one pocket or 14.1 you had to learn rules and rules are different and unique for all games and even the same game can have several different sets of rules, this is no different then that.
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Just a quick thought, Lenny, since you seem to have a vested interest in this project: one of the things you do not want to do when critics appear is to insinuate that "their life sucks." Because what happens is that instead of placing them in a position where you might sway their opinion in your favor, you only drive them further away and harden their negative stance. I also wouldn't casting aspersions on "the old guard" if you ever want to bring them around.

Your game has some serious challenges ahead and most of us have heard the motivational aphorisms before.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Just a quick thought, Lenny, since you seem to have a vested interest in this project: one of the things you do not want to do when critics appear is to insinuate that "their life sucks." Because what happens is that instead of placing them in a position where you might sway their opinion in your favor, you only drive them further away and harden their negative stance. I also wouldn't casting aspersions on "the old guard" if you ever want to bring them around.

Your game has some serious challenges ahead and most of us have heard the motivational aphorisms before.

Lou Figueroa
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Lou, one thing I have realized with being online enough is the old saying about leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I think Bonus Ball will either prove itself or not, I am just a small part of it and glad to be involved, I feel its something positive and hope those who get a chance to watch live or on video will get the same vibe. To those who troll and are negative about nearly anything even stuff they know little or nothing about...stay thirsty my friends.
 
Fast Lenny said:
Lou, one thing I have realized with being online enough is the old saying about leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I think Bonus Ball will either prove itself or not, I am just a small part of it and glad to be involved, I feel its something positive and hope those who get a chance to watch live or on video will get the same vibe. To those who troll and are negative about nearly anything even stuff they know little or nothing about...stay thirsty my friends.
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Lenny, I totally get what you're saying about the internet and, to a certain extent, agree.

However, in this instance, you're involved with a biz-a-ness -- product being brought to market. That's requires a different approach and a little more finesse.

Lou Figueroa
 
All questions about Bonus Ball will be answered personally by myself, Barry Bremner, at info@playbonusball.com Thank you. Forum debating is not what we do. It is counter productive as you can see. This thread was not in any way encouraged by us.

Barry Bremner
World Wide Sport of Billiards
Las Vegas, Nevada.
 
This is a little story about an "old guard" player. This player is one of Arizona's long-time best. He started out as a 3-cushion player years ago and then moved over to pool when all the 3-cushion tables disappeared. In the years since, he has won several AZ state championships, cashed high in the Reno Open on several occasions, and cashed in the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship on at least one occasion. His current favorite game is 10-Ball, but he likes all the games, with the exception of 14.1 To him, 14.1is not exciting enough (being an old 3-cushion player, he likes to see a lot of cue ball movement).

This past Saturday, this player came into BullShooters for his usual afternoon of practice. I didn't see him walk in, but the owner of BullShooters came over and said, "(Name-withheld) just came in with his own set of pool balls." I didn't think too much of it at the time, but after a bit, curiosity got the better of me so I walked back to where the player was at to check it out. To my surprise, he had a set of Bonus Balls and was teaching the game to a woman who plays in one of BullShooters' in-house 9-Ball leagues, and they were having a great time. I was quickly asked if I would like to join in for a couple games, and I said, sure, thinking I might have an edge since I had played the game several times before. To my mixed chagrin/delight, it turns out that our "old guard" player has taken a real liking to the game, and has already learned enough about it to beat me two games straight (not a huge feat for a champion, considering who he was playing, but I'm sure I can still beat most 10-year-old girls)! After my come-uppance whipping, I politely excused myself and left "old guard" to battle it out with the woman, playing her 3-pockets to 6.

The purpose of this story is to demonstrate that "old guards" can (and will)learn new tricks, as long as the tricks have treats in them. ;)

Roger
 
What is everyone afraid of? We are only doing recreation. It might be fun. What's to lose. Go play it for six months. Come back here. Tell everyone about your experience.
 
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