bonus ball is the real deal

Well, I tried real hard to order the set but the system wont accept my order. I get the message that it can't accept my credit card number. I have checked it over half a dozen times and can't find anything wrong. I'll try again tomorrow.

Dave Nelson
 
Robroy said:
Agreed Roger, the old saying: If it ain't broke don't fix it....well pool is broke and it needs fixin' hopefully Bonus Ball will bring attraction back to the game we all love so much!!!
So Bonus Ball and everyone involved hoping the very best for you all!!!
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Was thinking that with Drake's twitter following about pool with the youth, wouldn't it be cool for him to somehow promote it? The youth are needed! :thumbup:
 
I submitted my order mainly because I like Johnny Archer. After reading the complete thread I'm sort of happy that the order didn't go through. I'll think it over some more.

Dave Nelson
 
Pool is a fringe sport

Pool is a fringe sport, players need to accept that. Yes it sucks that there is such limited action and events for players of all levels (unless you like APA play). This is just how it is.

Try to explain anything about pool to non-players and watch their eyes glaze over. It is our passion, but very hard to share with others. It takes a lot of dedication and time to raise your game to a level where you can achieve sucess. Most people just won't put in the time. After a while a lot of dedicated players will quit the game because it has so little to offer in return.

Efforts need to be undertaken to grow the game for the players we have. If current players had more to play for the sport would be stronger. We need a few more events like Derby City and SBE to attend. The Southern Billiards Classic in Mississippi are the type of events that are good for pool. There needs to be something for advanced amateurs to work towards because only a handful of players nationally will ever make a strong showing professionally and even then their time is limited.
 
nathandumoulin said:
A few quick points to clarify:

1) The rules posted are not the actual rules. The game has completely evolved over the past year into a completely different animal, and the past three weeks have been dedicated to refining the game to make it playable at the highest level. The new rules will be released shortly.

2) there has been zero promotional work for this, and that's because the creators want the game perfected before it goes public. They made that mistake a few years ago, and are not going to make it again. Promotion will begin in a few months when everything is properly put in place.

3) If you think this game is just to amuse spectators and is similar to trickshots, then expect to be surprised when you see it in a few months. A much closer comparison would be one pocket on speed with a straight pool breakout and snooker scoring.
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Nathan, like it or not "the promotion" has already started courtesy of Mr. Brett (maybe he didn't know his microphone was on).

One thing I am curious about is how BB can be presented without a 20 minute tutorial before each broadcast. (And who is going to sit still for that?) Otherwise you're just getting people watching players shoot funny looking pool balls and then looking at each other and going, "Why'd he do that?" Lenny says you can't do the same thing over and over and expect different results and that's true. However, blindly going in a different direction that is likely to take you to the edge of a cliff is not so good either.

Lou Figueroa
 
JCIN said:
I find it interesting that it's "our" job to get behind something. As a guy who sells pool, the way I look at it is that it's my job to give people something they like first and get them excited enough about something to support it. If someone doesnt support it they shouldnt get a guilt trip. Pool isnt a charity its a business.

I also find based on history that the group or groups claiming we all need to support something in pool really mean we need to support whatever it is they are involved in at the moment.
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Thanks for being the voice of reason.

Indeed, nobody needs to support any venture in pool or anything else unless the venture or product has sufficient merit to entice consumers.

Seven years ago, threads just like this one appeared concerning the IPT, arguing that all posters who either failed to support it or denounced any aspect of it would have some aco****ability if the venture failed. It was nonsense then, and it's nonsense now. Everyone understands now that mismanagement and poor marketing were the undoing of the IPT.

Whether bonus ball succeeds has little or nothing to do with what is posted here on AZB. If the game has sufficient merit and is marketed correctly, and the business venture is managed skillfully, it will succeed, and otherwise it will fail. Should it fail, the fault will lie with those that packaged it and tried to sell it, not with consumers who chose not to buy it.

The onus is on promoters to deliver a product that captures the imagination of consumers to the point that they choose to purchase it.

Let's not overlook that pool fans and consumers were completely ignored by professional players when the ABP guidelines concerning the future of competitive pool were being devised. Why would pool consumers feel any obligation to such pros? On the contrary, they've been given ample reason to withhold support, but, to their credit, pool fans tend to be above such actions.

I've provided a lot of sponsorship money in pool over the years to ventures and promoters that have earned it through their track records, but I'll take the "wait and see" road here. I wish all those who have a stake in the future of bonus ball every possible success, and once I've checked it out at greater length, if I like it, I will support it. Otherwise, I will not support it. Anyone who truly believes that fans have an obligation to grow or support the growth of pool is delusional.

Speaking as a fan, show me a good product and I'll buy it. TAR is a good example of a product that's good enough to buy, and I often purchase. When I do, I always get my money's worth.
 
I may support it when there is actually something to support (for instance, an understandable product?) and if (and only if) I like it and it is entertaining for me. Asking in advance for support is futile and misplaced energy, IMHO.

The stuff out there now regarding Bonus Ball is not very convincing for myself, but maybe others and the mainstream will like it? Guess we'll see. I am fairly certain I will continue to invest my dollars with Accu-Stats, TAR matches and travel to 2-3 large events each year. Because I already like those products and they have proven to deliver.

Anyway, I wish no ill will and conversely much success for all involved in Bonus Ball. At this point, I would say it is not for me, but hey, I may change my mind. Hope it's that good and that I do...

Peace,

~Razor
 
Someone mentioned business model..... I think it's apparent that they will be creating a national league for bonus ball as there is no other reason to be having the pro teams formed for league play....

Get on your phones now and get the best players you know onto your local team...

I think they realized individuals were not gonna pony up the cost of the scoreboard and ball set and decided that if teams were formed the costs would be split.....

Maybe it truly was the cost issue that was the major hurdle and this is he right play.... Only time will tell......
 
TheThaiger said:
Will reserve judgment on this until I see the finished product, but anything that introduces a time element to pool must be welcomed.
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You can use shot clocks in any cue sport. People already have used shot clocks in 9-ball, 10-ball, 8-ball, ect...

I agree the score board and visable shot clock is a welcome addition to pool but did you need to create a whole new game to introduce one? It would have been a great addition to any game, the board for 8-ball could have a 30 second shot clock, show the match score, show each opponents designated balls (stripes or solids or colors such as red and yellow if 8-ball was ever made a mainstream pro game).

The shot clock I always thought would truly be awesome for 8-ball would be a "running average" shotclock where you need to play each shot "on average" less then 30 seconds but the average shot time is based off of the last 10 shots. A foul thus occurs if you ever go beyond 300 seconds or 5 minutes within your last 10 shots.

Such a shot clock as above would be easy to program and the only thing a ref/time keeper would have to do would be to hit a button at the commencement of each players turn at the table and push the same button at the pocketing of each ball. For the player they would have visible on the score/timeboard the time/shot average of the last 10 shots and they would have the total time used in their last NINE shots so that they know how much time they have for the next shot to not exceed 300 seconds.

There would be no verbal warnings, there would be no audible chimes warning you of 10 seconds left. It would be the players responsibility to keep track of their time by looking up at the board on occasion and shooting at a pace where they do not need to worry about time issues.

Snooker has time fouls, I never knew they did but when you watch pro snooker they shoot the game relatively quickly. Unlike pool you never know the time requirement is ever really there and instead simple see people playing quick snooker, that is great for the sport and the fans.

Pools idea of having warning chimes going off and refs interupting players in mid stroke on a ball to tell them they have 10 seconds to shoot is amature in the extreme and needs to change.
 
Here is a Pro event from 1992 that was ALL offense and the match was split up into 2 -20 Minute segments. I believe there was also a timer for each game. check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qphuIlYQgk

Celtic said:
You can use shot clocks in any cue sport. People already have used shot clocks in 9-ball, 10-ball, 8-ball, ect...

I agree the score board and visable shot clock is a welcome addition to pool but did you need to create a whole new game to introduce one? It would have been a great addition to any game, the board for 8-ball could have a 30 second shot clock, show the match score, show each opponents designated balls (stripes or solids or colors such as red and yellow if 8-ball was ever made a mainstream pro game).

The shot clock I always thought would truly be awesome for 8-ball would be a "running average" shotclock where you need to play each shot "on average" less then 30 seconds but the average shot time is based off of the last 10 shots. A foul thus occurs if you ever go beyond 300 seconds or 5 minutes within your last 10 shots.

Such a shot clock as above would be easy to program and the only thing a ref/time keeper would have to do would be to hit a button at the commencement of each players turn at the table and push the same button at the pocketing of each ball. For the player they would have visible on the score/timeboard the time/shot average of the last 10 shots and they would have the total time used in their last NINE shots so that they know how much time they have for the next shot to not exceed 300 seconds.

There would be no verbal warnings, there would be no audible chimes warning you of 10 seconds left. It would be the players responsibility to keep track of their time by looking up at the board on occasion and shooting at a pace where they do not need to worry about time issues.

Snooker has time fouls, I never knew they did but when you watch pro snooker they shoot the game relatively quickly. Unlike pool you never know the time requirement is ever really there and instead simple see people playing quick snooker, that is great for the sport and the fans.

Pools idea of having warning chimes going off and refs interupting players in mid stroke on a ball to tell them they have 10 seconds to shoot is amature in the extreme and needs to change.
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I think we should keep in mind that "support" does not always mean, "Send us your money." In this case, I got the impression that Lee and Fatboy were merely asking that Bunus Ball not be trashed before it has a chance to show what it can do. Lou was probably correct when he said, "the promotion has already started" (with this thread), because such threads in these forums are many times a part of marketing an idea, product, or service. Let's face it, word-of-mouth advertising is usually very effective, in both the positive and negative veins, and with this thread I think Lee was meaning to announce this new product (Bonus Ball) while acknowledging that it will naturally be greeted with an amount of skepticism and criticism, all-the-while hoping to receive more positive, rather than negative, responses. Whatever the case, I'm sure the Bonus Ball people have not asked Lee to solicit donations, and instead, are hoping that everyone will take a good look at the direction they are trying to take (because it's really not the direction you all think it is) before making any final judgements.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
I think we should keep in mind that "support" does not always mean, "Send us your money." In this case, I got the impression that Lee and Fatboy were merely asking that Bunus Ball not be trashed before it has a chance to show what it can do. Lou was probably correct when he said, "the promotion has already started" (with this thread), because such threads in these forums are many times a part of marketing an idea, product, or service. Let's face it, word-of-mouth advertising is usually very effective, in both the positive and negative veins, and with this thread I think Lee was meaning to announce this new product (Bonus Ball) while acknowledging that it will naturally be greeted with an amount of skepticism and criticism, all-the-while hoping to receive more positive, rather than negative, responses. Whatever the case, I'm sure the Bonus Ball people have not asked Lee to solicit donations, and instead, are hoping that everyone will take a good look at the direction they are trying to take (because it's really not the direction you all think it is) before making any final judgements.

Roger
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Quote: (because it's really not the direction you all think it is)
 
Roger Long said:
I think we should keep in mind that "support" does not always mean, "Send us your money." In this case, I got the impression that Lee and Fatboy were merely asking that Bunus Ball not be trashed before it has a chance to show what it can do. Lou was probably correct when he said, "the promotion has already started" (with this thread), because such threads in these forums are many times a part of marketing an idea, product, or service. Let's face it, word-of-mouth advertising is usually very effective, in both the positive and negative veins, and with this thread I think Lee was meaning to announce this new product (Bonus Ball) while acknowledging that it will naturally be greeted with an amount of skepticism and criticism, all-the-while hoping to receive more positive, rather than negative, responses. Whatever the case, I'm sure the Bonus Ball people have not asked Lee to solicit donations, and instead, are hoping that everyone will take a good look at the direction they are trying to take (because it's really not the direction you all think it is) before making any final judgements.

Roger
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You always take a risk when you go on forums seeking free promotion. One bad review will out weigh a dozen good ones. I am looking for a new cell phone right now and the one I want gets good and bad reviews as is seems they all do. No matter how good the good ones are, you can't help but keep looking at the bad ones.

I don't think I would ever attempt to promote a product on any forum and if for some reason I did, I would never get into debates and arguments with detractors. Just make the post as an announcement or press release. No puffery just facts and answer no questions. I once had a guy from the newspaper do a story on a pool room I had.

Sounded good, free advertising, yeah right. He described me as a Hells Angles look-a- like and made the place sound like hole in the wall as he colorfully described some of the customers and refereed to them by their nick names.
Anything for free can be a real double edged sword and very risky.
 
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itsfroze said:
Quote: (because it's really not the direction you all think it is)
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Oh, I see what you mean now, but I still stand behind that particular statement because it hasn't been revealed to the public what the actual direction is that the promoters of Bonus Ball plan to take. I would be surprised if all in this thread (with the exception of Lee, Fatboy, and Fast Lenny) are not surprised when the whole plan is finally revealed.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
I think we should keep in mind that "support" does not always mean, "Send us your money." In this case, I got the impression that Lee and Fatboy were merely asking that Bunus Ball not be trashed before it has a chance to show what it can do. Lou was probably correct when he said, "the promotion has already started" (with this thread), because such threads in these forums are many times a part of marketing an idea, product, or service. Let's face it, word-of-mouth advertising is usually very effective, in both the positive and negative veins, and with this thread I think Lee was meaning to announce this new product (Bonus Ball) while acknowledging that it will naturally be greeted with an amount of skepticism and criticism, all-the-while hoping to receive more positive, rather than negative, responses. Whatever the case, I'm sure the Bonus Ball people have not asked Lee to solicit donations, and instead, are hoping that everyone will take a good look at the direction they are trying to take (because it's really not the direction you all think it is) before making any final judgements.

Roger
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Roger, I'm guessing Mr. Brett went rogue on this, just touting his own involvement without realizing he was inadvertently highlighting the whole thing for public examination. As we used to say in the PR biz: the cow is out of the barn and, right about now... it's looking like a pretty ugly cow.

Lou Figueroa
 
macguy said:
I don't think I would ever attempt to promote a product on any forum and if for some reason I did, I would never get into debates and arguments with detractors. Just make the post as an announcement or press release. No puffery just facts and answer no questions.
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No. You can't do that. You have to have a PR plan that starts way before a press release. And then, after the PR and cute video are out, you have to be prepared for the follow up. There would also be things like a well thought out strategy for introducing the new product to market, but it doesn't look like we're talking about anything that sophisticated in this case.

Lou Figueroa
 
macguy said:
You always take a risk when you go on forums seeking free promotion. One bad review will out weigh a dozen good ones. I am looking for a new cell phone right now and the one I want gets good and bad reviews as is seems they all do. No matter how good the good ones are, you can't help but keep looking at the bad ones.

I don't think I would ever attempt to promote a product on any forum and if for some reason I did, I would never get into debates and arguments with detractors. Just make the post as an announcement or press release. No puffery just facts and answer no questions. I once had a guy from the newspaper do a story on a pool room I had.

Sounded good, free advertising, yeah right. He described me as a Hells Angles look-a- like and made the place sound like hole in the wall as he colorfully described some of the customers and refereed to them by their nick names.
Anything for free can be a real double edged sword and very risky.
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Well Said.. Learned my lesson pitching to the masses.

Bonus Ball? Not a chance..

Rotation 15ball? That's more like it.
 
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