Break Cue Shaft

RBLilly

RBLilly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a quick question, and maybe I am not knowledgable enough to be askign this.

I broke with a cue this weekend that had a purple heart shaft and a conical taper to it. This thing broke like a jack hammer.

My question is are there any harder woods than purple heart? Or is purple heart about the hardest thing you could use for a shaft?:confused:

Would teak even be something to consider, or is that not a good idea? To my knowledge Teak is about the hardest wood there is.


Thanks!
 
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I also found this wood that is being used to make pullies and also mallets! Would this type of wood be harder than purple heart?

Lignum Vitae
 
txplshrk said:
I have a quick question, and maybe I am not knowledgable enough to be askign this.

I broke with a cue this weekend that had a purple heart shaft and a conical taper to it. This think broke like a jack hammer.

My question is are there any harder woods than purple heart? Or is purple heart about the hardest thing you could use for a shaft?:confused:

Would teak even be something to consider, or is that not a good idea? To my knowledge Teak is about the hardest wood there is.


Thanks!
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There are several properties that describe the characteristics of wood. The right combination of these properties is what makes cue woods work well in cues.

One measure of hardness of wood is called Janka, and is the measure of indentation in wood a ball bearing makes dropped at a certain height.

A few janka values, all generally average numbers for the species...each specific piece will ofcourse vary some.
Southern yellow pine = 690
Hard maple = 1450
Purpleheart = 1850

Sources say Teak is only 1000 to 1155. There are have been a few threads regarding teak in cues. The consensus was that it has been used very sparingly, and generally isn't suitable. I do not think it would make good shaft wood.

The hardest wood in terms of janka is lignum vitae, at 4500. There are a few that are around 3600-3700, ipe and brazilian blackheart to name two of them. When you get up to 3000, the wood is extremely hard, and there are not many species up there, relatively speaking.

Kelly
 
Kelly_Guy said:
There are several properties that describe the characteristics of wood. The right combination of these properties is what makes cue woods work well in cues.

One measure of hardness of wood is called Janka, and is the measure of indentation in wood a ball bearing makes dropped at a certain height.

A few janka values, all generally average numbers for the species...each specific piece will ofcourse vary some.
Southern yellow pine = 690
Hard maple = 1450
Purpleheart = 1850

Sources say Teak is only 1000 to 1155. There are have been a few threads regarding teak in cues. The consensus was that it has been used very sparingly, and generally isn't suitable. I do not think it would make good shaft wood.

The hardest wood in terms of janka is lignum vitae, at 4500. There are a few that are around 3600-3700, ipe and brazilian blackheart to name two of them. When you get up to 3000, the wood is extremely hard, and there are not many species up there, relatively speaking.

Kelly
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That is what I have been finding on the web too. What would you think of lignum vitae being used for a shaft? I have read that it has been used to make mallets and pullies and normally holds up to this abuse.

I have also found a wood that is being used in martial arts called IPE that almost has the same properties as Lignum vitae, but it is easier to work with as far as milling it down.

Do you think IPE would be a good choice?
 
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txplshrk said:
That is what I have been finding on the web too. What would yo uthink of lignum vitae being used for a shaft? I have read that it has been used to make mallets and pullies and normally holds up to this abuse.
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It is 82 pounds per cubic foot, roughly twice hard maple. I do not consider it usable as a cue wood, particularly shaft. Too oily, too heavy, to stiff, etc. There are other properties such as compression strength, bending strength, etc that should be evaluated when looking at woods for cues.

Kelly
 
Kelly_Guy said:
It is 82 pounds per cubic foot, roughly twice hard maple. I do not consider it usable as a cue wood, particularly shaft. Too oily, too heavy, to stiff, etc. There are other properties such as compression strength, bending strength, etc that should be evaluated when looking at woods for cues.

Kelly
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Understandable, I am particularly looking for the stiffest hardest piece of wood for a shaft for breaking and for jumping. This will not be used for a daily player.
 
Kelly_Guy said:
There are several properties that describe the characteristics of wood. The right combination of these properties is what makes cue woods work well in cues.

One measure of hardness of wood is called Janka, and is the measure of indentation in wood a ball bearing makes dropped at a certain height.

A few janka values, all generally average numbers for the species...each specific piece will ofcourse vary some.
Southern yellow pine = 690
Hard maple = 1450
Purpleheart = 1850

Sources say Teak is only 1000 to 1155. There are have been a few threads regarding teak in cues. The consensus was that it has been used very sparingly, and generally isn't suitable. I do not think it would make good shaft wood.

The hardest wood in terms of janka is lignum vitae, at 4500. There are a few that are around 3600-3700, ipe and brazilian blackheart to name two of them. When you get up to 3000, the wood is extremely hard, and there are not many species up there, relatively speaking.

Kelly
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To add to your synopsis. How hard a shaft is is only one parameter in deciding upon a suitable wood for a shaft. You must also include stiffness, open/closed grain, weight, compression without shattering and of coarse stability against warpage.

In a break shaft, you want as much energy to be transferred from the hand to the ball as possible. This means you want a stiff shaft. Less energy lost to flexing and compression. Purple heart is a good choice of wood as it is straight grained, stiffer than Maple but still resilient enough not to shatter and has a smooth surface. The big difference is the European taper on the shaft. The taper is more critical to a shafts performance than the type of material it is constructed from. Being conical, it flexes little. It is for this reason that most 10mm snooker shafts hit stiffer than a 13mm cue shaft.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
To add to your synopsis. How hard a shaft is is only one parameter in deciding upon a suitable wood for a shaft. You must also include stiffness, open/closed grain, weight, compression without shattering and of coarse stability against warpage.

In a break shaft, you want as much energy to be transferred from the hand to the ball as possible. This means you want a stiff shaft. Less energy lost to flexing and compression. Purple heart is a good choice of wood as it is straight grained, stiffer than Maple but still resilient enough not to shatter and has a smooth surface. The big difference is the European taper on the shaft. The taper is more critical to a shafts performance than the type of material it is constructed from. Being conical, it flexes little. It is for this reason that most 10mm snooker shafts hit stiffer than a 13mm cue shaft.

Dick
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Ok so what is the strongest stiffest piece of wood you can get that wouldn't shatter or crack while using it for breaking?

Is that IPE stuff any good, or is it going to split down the middle when breaking with it?

I hear they use IPE to make wooden swords for martial arts, I would think that it is pretty durable if that is the case.
 
txplshrk said:
http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/ipe.php

What do you think?
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I think if you tried a purpleheart shaft and it broke like a jack hammer, you should stick with that.

Simply picking the hardest wood is not going to give you a spectactular break cue. Ipe is around 70 pounds per cubic foot. Hard to generate any stick speed when most people brefer breakers to be an ounce or two lighter than their normal playing cue, oily and alkaline, so the finish at the joint might be tough.

It is real hard to argue against good old hard maple cut with a stiff taper, and maybe a little larger diameter, or purpleheart if you had good experience with that.

Kelly
 
rhncue said:
The taper is more critical to a shafts performance than the type of material it is constructed from. Being conical, it flexes little. It is for this reason that most 10mm snooker shafts hit stiffer than a 13mm cue shaft.

Dick
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What is the difference between conical taper verses a normal shaft taper?
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
What is the difference between conical taper verses a normal shaft taper?
Dave
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A conical taper is shaped like a cone. If you took a 29" straight edge and lay it on a shaft, there will be no gaps between the shaft and the straight edge (barring warpage).

Most pool cue shafts either have a curved taper (many call it parabolic), or several different straight tapers combined, somewhat simulating a curved taper. If you lay a straight edge against a pool shaft, there will be gaps due to the nonlinear taper over the entire length.

Kelly
 
Dave38 said:
What is the difference between conical taper verses a normal shaft taper?
Dave
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It is a stiffer taper that starts at the tip and comes back to the joint in a cone shape......................hince the name conical taper. A lot of tapers start out at one size for so many inches back then taper will beging getting bigger until you get down to the joint.
 
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I build jump break shafts out of Brazillian Cherry. It is heavy hard and stiff. I tried to play with it but the shaft got so small from experimentation to make it playable it was like shooting with a pencil. White wawood I think is what martial arts weaponds are made of. Supposedly real hard. Never was able to find out much on it though.
 
RocketQ said:
I build jump break shafts out of Brazillian Cherry. It is heavy hard and stiff. I tried to play with it but the shaft got so small from experimentation to make it playable it was like shooting with a pencil. White wawood I think is what martial arts weaponds are made of. Supposedly real hard. Never was able to find out much on it though.
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Is the Brazillian Cherry as hard or harder than Purple Heart?
 
I cannot comment about the playability of woods as much as refinishing them and the notes on IPE caught my interest. I have been involved in the coatings industry for over 25 years and IPE is extremely dense & oily and does not hold a finish well at all. The Atlantic city boardwalk is IPE and all they do is pressure wash and and let it age. It turns a greyish color as it ages and is not considered attractive, it is however almost impervious to insect and water infiltration!! I have seen many high end decks made of it and the clients all expect it to have that warm brown ipe color forever and it doesn't stay that color long at all. Much to there dismay.. As to teak it is very oily and we found that wiping it with acetone just prior to refinishing helped it hold a finish much better. Just some random thoughts....
Dan
 
quedup said:
I cannot comment about the playability of woods as much as refinishing them and the notes on IPE caught my interest. I have been involved in the coatings industry for over 25 years and IPE is extremely dense & oily and does not hold a finish well at all. The Atlantic city boardwalk is IPE and all they do is pressure wash and and let it age. It turns a greyish color as it ages and is not considered attractive, it is however almost impervious to insect and water infiltration!! I have seen many high end decks made of it and the clients all expect it to have that warm brown ipe color forever and it doesn't stay that color long at all. Much to there dismay.. As to teak it is very oily and we found that wiping it with acetone just prior to refinishing helped it hold a finish much better. Just some random thoughts....
Dan
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For a shaft I wouldn't want to put a finish on it, so this wood might just work for a break cue, but I am still anxious to hear if anyone else has used it. I am also still interested in everyone's thoughts.

I am not looking to do anything but make a shaft out of it.
 
txplshrk said:
Is the Brazillian Cherry as hard or harder than Purple Heart?
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I am not sure. I know it machines and flexes similar but the science of if it is actually harder you got me. I know it is tough stuff.. Never made a shaft from purpleheart so I can't compare the two.
 
I have a PH dufferin conversion in the works now that I was going to make 2 shafts for. One shaft is a purpleheart that I wanted to try out for breaking. It's a 3/8 pin. Greg
 
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