Break Speed DISCUSSION

[gunzby]

gunzby...This is a perfect description of the optimum break, imo. Great job! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanx
I spent a lot of time working on my break to discover this. Of course variables such as tables, rack, how clean the balls are and of course humidity effect how hard or soft you have to hit the head ball the most important factor is accuracy.

Depending on the variables I have experienced a break between 17 and 20 will get the results you need. Sometimes 20 or a little higher won't give you anything, but 17 will nail 3 balls on the break. Decoding the table can be fun and frustrating.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I see what he's getting at here but I don't think the analogy quite fits in this case.

I don't presume to know anything about fly fishing but what she is doing seems to be more dependent on rhythm of movement and fluidity of her motions than merely being able to swing the crap out of the rod to make the line go farther, while the break in pool all comes down to being able to swing the cue faster. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure she doesn't swing that rod faster than most of the guys she's outcasting... she just has such a perfect motion that the shape and flow of her line does all the work for her. Please forgive my ignorance of fly fishing terminology.

Well, I could go on about the huge differences between boxing punches and break shots if you want. lol

All of these sport comparisons are apples and oranges to me, but it doesn't negate the point I was making.

The cast in fly casting has everything to do with line speed. Yes, loop management and line control are pivotal is achieving great distance, but the same physics will tell you that you don't propel a 1 3/8 oz shooting head 161 feet without applying a wee bit of force to it.

The vid I posted is of an elderly woman giving a public demo of ordinary every day fly casting, and was just posted as an example of her perfect timing. No one recorded her casting record, but I can tell you that a record distance cast would have required her to garner all the force in her diminutive body, but in a smoother and more progressive development of power throughout the casting stroke.

The best men casters of her day beat her in competition (but they were few and far between), mostly by virtue of their greater muscle mass and height, but by paying careful attention to her entire body (she was an accomplished dancer in her youth) she was able to develop a style that use all of the necessary muscle in the most coordinated fashion for the job at hand. Timing is everything IMHO. And it can be learned.

 

[JoeyA]

Well, I could go on about the huge differences between boxing punches and break shots if you want. lol

All of these sport comparisons are apples and oranges to me, but it doesn't negate the point I was making.

The cast in fly casting has everything to do with line speed. Yes, loop management and line control are pivotal is achieving great distance, but the same physics will tell you that you don't propel a 1 3/8 oz shooting head 161 feet without applying a wee bit of force to it.

The vid I posted is of an elderly woman giving a public demo of ordinary every day fly casting, and was just posted as an example of her perfect timing. No one recorded her casting record, but I can tell you that a record distance cast would have required her to garner all the force in her diminutive body, but in a smoother and more progressive development of power throughout the casting stroke.

The best men casters of her day beat her in competition (but they were few and far between), mostly by virtue of their greater muscle mass and height, but by paying careful attention to her entire body (she was an accomplished dancer in her youth) she was able to develop a style that use all of the necessary muscle in the most coordinated fashion for the job at hand. Timing is everything IMHO. And it can be learned.

I would add, "Timing (and Technique) are everything, IMHO. And both can be learned.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I would add, "Timing (and Technique) are everything, IMHO. And both can be learned.

I feel that timing is part of technique, but I think we're on the same page here. :wink:

 

[JoeyA]

JoeyA... as you practice repetitiously, you will learn how to increase your accuracy of hit on the Cue Ball, create a Good Hit on the Rack & gain Cue Ball control after impact.

Repetition will assist you in developing your rhythm & coordination. That will build your speed.

Good Luck folks...

Charlie,
Last night I was practicing some nine ball with a friend and I was cracking the rack and it sounded like thunder. :wink:

 

[DocHutch]

.........

Charlie,
Last night I was practicing some nine ball with a friend and I was cracking the rack and it sounded like thunder. :wink:

First he brought the thunder........then he brought the rain!!!!!!

 

[ENGLISH!]

It is about speed and head ball contact...which is what I told you via PM. Making the head ball in the side pocket is not about using sidespin. Draw on the CB is what makes the CB bend to the long rail, to avoid the scratch in the corner...not sidespin. Sidespin alone has no significant influence on the directional path of the CB, until it hits a rail. If the CB has directional spin too (draw or follow), with english, it will bend...but it's not the sidespin making it happen. Now, ENGLISH...what was that disparaging remark you wanted to make?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Did I say I WANTED to make a disparging remark? I said I COULD, but I refrained from doing so out of consideration. Who said anything about side spin ALONE? Who said making the head ball in the side pocket was ABOUT side spin? What is all that 'DOUBLE TALK' THAT YOU DO? Do you do that on purpose, or what? You make the shot the way you do it & I'll make it about 8 out of 10 times the way I & Snapshot KNOW how to make it, the correct head ball hit with LOW... again LOW... RAIL SIDE ENGLISH. You are who you are, but you don't have an exclusive right on KNOWLEDGE. You 'sound' like you THINK that you do, but you don't. Real players KNOW! Sanpshot & I KNOW! And others KNOW! Talk your 'DOUBLE TALK' to the ones that don't know. But please don't try to 'twist' MY words with your 'DOUBLE TALK' to make it APPEAR like only you & you alone know what is correct. Why can't you be 100% GENUINE in your comments with no 'DOUBLE TALK'? I think You do yourself a dis-service. You come across in writing, at least to me, as pompous & condescending. To me that is insulting. Maybe you're not. Maybe it is because I don't know you & you don't know me. There is no verbal tone or inflection in the written word & much can be taken incorrectly. That is why IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO BE ACCURATE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Per my examples above, as well as others that I have seen, you seem to have a problem doing that, at least when you are 'writing' & can not be interrupted to be CORRECTED. Sorry, but YOU ASKED. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Can you do the same? Can you admit that you MAY have made a mistake & aplogize, not to me, but to SNAPSHOT. He's the one you inferrred was being untruthful because he is 'MIS-INFORMED'. I doubt that he was 'informed' at all. He probably dug the truth out of the cloth through 50 years of playing. Let's put it to rest if we can & get along as best we can. I SINCERELY HOPE that we can do that. PS Also, please remember that it was YOU that brought it out of the PM area.

 

[JoeyA]

First he brought the thunder........then he brought the rain!!!!!!

Hehehehe. Today, I snuck out for a half hour break and used the BreakRak and radar. I averaged 19-20 mph without any warmups. I still can't hit over 21 easily and only occasionally but I can feel I am getting closer to a technique and timing that will get me there. Others are able to hit 21 more regularly, using my BK 2 with the leather tip, so it's just a matter of time for consistency.

Breaking that hard and hitting the one ball square requires some practice. I don't want to injure myself which I am apt to do because of my bull-headedness in trying to increase my break speed. It's been fun so far and I can see improvements in consistency and speed.

 

[pt109]

Hehehehe. Today, I snuck out for a half hour break and used the BreakRak and radar. I averaged 19-20 mph without any warmups. I still can't hit over 21 easily and only occasionally but I can feel I am getting closer to a technique and timing that will get me there. Others are able to hit 21 more regularly, using my BK 2 with the leather tip, so it's just a matter of time for consistency.

Breaking that hard and hitting the one ball square requires some practice. I don't want to injure myself which I am apt to do because of my bull-headedness in trying to increase my break speed. It's been fun so far and I can see improvements in consistency and speed.

Joey, I'm curious about your radar method of timing.
I've seen three different methods of assessing break speed....
...and they would give you three different figures on the same break.

 

[Scott Lee]

ENGLISH...I'll tell ya how we can put this to rest. Let's get together, and you can break all you want. We'll bet $100 on every break. If you can indeed make the head ball in the side 8 out of 10 tries, you'll have a lock, and win yourself a pile of $$$. I'm betting it goes the other way. While it's true that the elite pros all have eccentric means of getting things done (and most of the time they don't even know what they're doing...the shot just goes), I don't think you're in that catagory of player...I could be wrong, but I'm willing to back it up, and give you a shot.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I'll make it about 8 out of 10 times .

 

[ENGLISH!]

ENGLISH...I'll tell ya how we can put this to rest. Let's get together, and you can break all you want. We'll bet $100 on every break. If you can indeed make the head ball in the side 8 out of 10 tries, you'll have a lock, and win yourself a pile of $$$. I'm betting it goes the other way. While it's true that the elite pros all have eccentric means of getting things done (and most of the time they don't even know what they're doing...the shot just goes), I don't think you're in that catagory of player...I could be wrong, but I'm willing to back it up, and give you a shot.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Computer Glitch. See below.

 

[ENGLISH!]

ENGLISH...I'll tell ya how we can put this to rest. Let's get together, and you can break all you want. We'll bet $100 on every break. If you can indeed make the head ball in the side 8 out of 10 tries, you'll have a lock, and win yourself a pile of $$$. I'm betting it goes the other way. While it's true that the elite pros all have eccentric means of getting things done (and most of the time they don't even know what they're doing...the shot just goes), I don't think you're in that catagory of player...I could be wrong, but I'm willing to back it up, and give you a shot.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Typical! You lose the KNOWLEDGE discussion so now you attack MY proficiency & execution & you want to throw MONEY at your problem. I recently saw you on a You Tube video. With ball in hand, after a 9 ball break, you missed a simple, less than 1/4 table, ball in hand shot. After your opponent misses a long shot and leaves the ball very near the pocket, you make it but you try to draw the ball down table instead of using the rail & you come up 1/2 table short & you leave yourself a very thin cut combo that you miss. Your opponent makes the ball you left in the pocket & then he misses an easy combo. On your next shot, you miss a corner cut from less than mid table & scatch across corner. BY YOUR OWN RATIONALE, YOU MUST NOT HAVE MUCH KNOWLEDGE. You'll probably reply that you did it on purpose to let your opponent win. (Is that why your nickname is Humpty Dumpty?) But, when he scratched & gave you ball in hand you made four(4) short simple shots near the table spot. There is a difference between you & I. I'm an Amatuer & glad to be one. Amatuer is derived from words that mean love. I LOVE THE GAME! I play for the love of the game. You on the other hand are a professional. THE GAME IS YOUR JOB & YOU ARE IN IT FOR THE MONEY. Keep your money & I 'll keep mine. BUT... LET'S DO MEET UP & I'LL GIVE YOU A SHOT. We'll each shoot 10 breaks from a nuetral racker. If I make the head ball in the side pocket more than you, you leave AZBilliards. If you make the head ball in the side pocket more than me, I'll leave AZBilliards. If we TIE we both leave AZBilliards. Also, make Snapshot your $100 a break offer, I can't speak for him, but he might want some of that action. Sorry, but it's you that can not seem to admit a possible mistake & make a simple apology. Why is it SO DIFFICUTLT FOR YOU to simply admit that Snapshot & I may have a way to make the shot with which you are not familiar & say a simple 'I'm sorry for questioning your integrity'? I EAGERLY AWAIT YOUR REPLY!

PS You also seem to be implying that even if I did make the shot 7 or 8 out of 10, that like 'the elite pros'... 'most of the time they don't even know what they're doing.... the shot just goes', that I too would not know why the ball goes into the pocket. Well, FYI, I have two(2) years of high school & two(2) semesters of college physics.

PSS I would love for you to make a public address announcement at an event that the elite pros don't even know what they are doing. I wonder how well received that would be. I hope Earl Strickland is not at that event when you make that annoucement.

 

[dr9ball]

Hold on let me get the popcorn. Ok, please continue.