Break Speed

R

RWOJO

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How important is the speed of the break?

At the GA Billiard Academy we teach to control the cue ball before we build on any power/speed. I tend to have the reputation that when I break everyone in the poolhall can hear it. I break really hard - usually around 23 mph but upwards of 25 or 26 mph some days.

Both 8 ball and 9 ball I break from the headstring and about a diamond off the rail. Depending on how the tables breaking I adjust a little left or right.

I have got a lot better at controlling the cue ball at this speed. Last year I probably jumped the ball off the table 1 in 5 breaks and now I can't remember the last time I did. I've been getting a lot better at squatting the cueball in the middle of the table.

My question is "Can anyone explain why breaking at 25 mph somedays I can't seem to get anything to drop but if I soft break (17 or 18 mph) I tend to get more balls to fall?"
 
First: the way you re doing it is absolutley correct- to break with the speed YOU can handle!
Further it needs great experience to *read* the break. And if you then furthermore have the ability to vary your speed a bit, next to play a bit more softly or harder, perhaps hitting the ball a ball -widht from the spot you used before......you can benefit here with your experience also on the break. And if you can create also a repeatable and straight stroke even if you increase your breakspeed it helps you also. But like already said-- it depends on experience and your ability to read the rack.

practice,
practice,
practice,

:)

have fun,
Ingo
 
Read the rack

I've played pool for almost 7 years. The first 4 were basically a waste because I got good at shotmaking and that was it (total disregard for position play and strategy). The next 3 years I've been studying the game and learning as much as possible.

I have very little experience/knowledge of reading the rack and how the balls are spreading on the break but learning more everyday now. Anyone knowledgeable in this and living near the atlanta area I'd appreciate some pointers.
 
RWOJO said:
I've played pool for almost 7 years. The first 4 were basically a waste because I got good at shotmaking and that was it (total disregard for position play and strategy). The next 3 years I've been studying the game and learning as much as possible.

I have very little experience/knowledge of reading the rack and how the balls are spreading on the break but learning more everyday now. Anyone knowledgeable in this and living near the atlanta area I'd appreciate some pointers.
Click to expand...

I don't live near Atlanta, but I'll work with you.
 
Instruction

I work with Chris Niksch at the Georgia Billiard academy. In September I will be doing Tom Simpsons clinic and also work towards becoming a Certified BCA instructor.

I love the game and always want to learn more. Anytime you guys are in the area let me know.
 
RWOJO said:
I work with Chris Niksch at the Georgia Billiard academy. In September I will be doing Tom Simpsons clinic and also work towards becoming a Certified BCA instructor.

I love the game and always want to learn more. Anytime you guys are in the area let me know.
Click to expand...

RWOJO, I have helped many people with their break - at all levels of the game - and I don't need to have you in the room to teach you the fundamentals of break speed. Chris has some copies of my 9 ball book if you want to review what it is that I teach about the break - - I do have video examples of the same material that is in my book. My phone number is displayed at my website (link is in my sig line). Call any time 9-5.
 
Breaking

Blackjack, I will review your material (have looked over it some already). I usually spend a good bit of time reading pool material and then playing, but lately has been different. I've been busier at work and then almost all of my free time has been spent at GBA either training or teaching.

I thought before that my pool book library was good with having 15 or 16 books but now I have at my disposal almost all the books on the market. Plus everyday it seems we're coming up with more drills and exercises.

My breaking is definitely seeing more consistancy with 10 - 15 minutes of practice on the Break station at GBA every couple days. To be able to break over and over again and not have to rack the balls is amazing and a huge time saver.
 
Good post, I need work on my break too, I think once I address some other issues and as I continue to get back into the game the break will become more and more important.

I break (based on break speed app on phone) around 24 - 25 mph as well pretty consistently. If the timing isn't right I can be around 22 or 23. Would be nice to add another mph or two, but like you, I noticed some days on some tables I'm making 1, 2, 3 balls often. One tournament I made 4 balls on the break 5 times. Then there are days where nothing goes in, and that's where I think the extra speed won't necessarily help. I have to learn to break from different angles or at different speeds or even to switch to a more controlled medium speed or cut break. Something to work on for sure... :)

Scott
 
Breaking

Knowing your break speed helps you figure out what is going on when breaks aren't working... but based on the stats you shared there is nothing wrong with your break.

I'm a BCA certified instructor and I went back to my notes on this one... the master instructor who taught me said that (on average) a PRO, on a 9 foot table with a 9 ball break makes a ball just 4 times out of 11. On a bar-box, playing 8 ball 50% is doing good ... these were his exact comments.

If you watch ESPN they edit heavily and they show lots of B&Rs but then they skip ahead and suddenly the match is goes from 3/2 to 5/3 with little explanation - those were games that the players missed shots and it wasn't exciting enough for ESPN to broadcast. You have to watch unedited matches to really get a feel for how often the PROs miss and how often they make a ball on the break.

21 to 24 MPH on the break is pretty standard for a pro in a tournament match (I"ve clocked them myself). If you can break at that speed with consistency then watch the cue ball action to make sure your hit is where you wanted and don't expect too much.

Good luck,
Craig
 
cyork2 said:
Knowing your break speed helps you figure out what is going on when breaks aren't working... but based on the stats you shared there is nothing wrong with your break.

I'm a BCA certified instructor and I went back to my notes on this one... the master instructor who taught me said that (on average) a PRO, on a 9 foot table with a 9 ball break makes a ball just 4 times out of 11. On a bar-box, playing 8 ball 50% is doing good ... these were his exact comments.

If you watch ESPN they edit heavily and they show lots of B&Rs but then they skip ahead and suddenly the match is goes from 3/2 to 5/3 with little explanation - those were games that the players missed shots and it wasn't exciting enough for ESPN to broadcast. You have to watch unedited matches to really get a feel for how often the PROs miss and how often they make a ball on the break.

21 to 24 MPH on the break is pretty standard for a pro in a tournament match (I"ve clocked them myself). If you can break at that speed with consistency then watch the cue ball action to make sure your hit is where you wanted and don't expect too much.

Good luck,
Craig
Click to expand...

4 out of 11 and 50% are old school numbers from the smash em in the mouth school of pool...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=247083&highlight=breaking+stats+shane

According to the speeds I have clocked with the breakspeed App most pros are breaking around 24mph.... This seems to be the sweet spot for getting the one ball in front of the corner pocket on new Simonis.... At the 2010 Open the slowest avg. break was just over 19 by Corey and There were only a few players breaking in excess of 24.... Sigel was one of them... He was smashing the rack from pretty much the same spot every time at around 27-28mph and looking shocked every time because he didn't make a single ball... It was borderline comedy....
 
"4 out of 11 and 50% are old school numbers from the smash em in the mouth school of pool..." These are averages from all pros. The elite fare better and the lower skilled breaker scores lower.
randyg







The Renfro said:
4 out of 11 and 50% are old school numbers from the smash em in the mouth school of pool...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=247083&highlight=breaking+stats+shane

According to the speeds I have clocked with the breakspeed App most pros are breaking around 24mph.... This seems to be the sweet spot for getting the one ball in front of the corner pocket on new Simonis.... At the 2010 Open the slowest avg. break was just over 19 by Corey and There were only a few players breaking in excess of 24.... Sigel was one of them... He was smashing the rack from pretty much the same spot every time at around 27-28mph and looking shocked every time because he didn't make a single ball... It was borderline comedy....
Click to expand...
 
randyg said:
"4 out of 11 and 50% are old school numbers from the smash em in the mouth school of pool..." These are averages from all pros. The elite fare better and the lower skilled breaker scores lower.
randyg
Click to expand...

I am no where near elite but I will easily cruise past those numbers... Last tournament I played in was JOB's 2 years ago.... I made at least 1 ball 32 out of my 34 breaks..... That was 9ball on a barbox... Rack your own... I wasn't doing anything funny.. Just racking them tight and straight...

On a 9 footer I'll make the 1 ball in the side more than 4 out of 11 easily...

Granted I have practiced/studied the break for the 24 years I have played... I was lucky to have a local pro speed player educate me on why the break was the most important shot in the game way before that was a common belief.....

I'd say given Joe Tucker's videos even an avg player should be able to exceed 4-11 and 50% breaking 9ball with a little time invested..

Many instructors are still teaching center ball as hard as you can control and full hit on the 1ball are all there is to the break.... There is way more to it and almost all of the better players know it.

I cannot think of very many of the true pros who have weak breaks and 4-11 and 50% is definitely a weak number.

If I am not mistaken those percentages date back to the days of slow cloth....
 
The Renfro...They are not "old numbers" (and certainly not based on the old slow cloth...Simonis has been standard for many years now), and as Randyg said, are averaged across the board for all pro players. Some pros will do better than 50% on a given day, on a given table...and then worse on another table, another time. Even the IPT, which kept stats on balls made on the break, showed low percentages, with all the top player participating. It's probably a little higher for 9-ball, but the 50% rule is dead on with 8-ball. One of the biggest myths out there, about the break, is that your break sucks if you don't make a ball.

I propose a litte experiement/wager. I'll come to VA and we'll take a week. You break 100 racks each, on ten different tables, in ten different rooms, and I'll bet your numbers don't hold up, and our do.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The Renfro said:
I am no where near elite but I will easily cruise past those numbers... Last tournament I played in was JOB's 2 years ago.... I made at least 1 ball 32 out of my 34 breaks..... That was 9ball on a barbox... Rack your own... I wasn't doing anything funny.. Just racking them tight and straight...

On a 9 footer I'll make the 1 ball in the side more than 4 out of 11 easily...

Granted I have practiced/studied the break for the 24 years I have played... I was lucky to have a local pro speed player educate me on why the break was the most important shot in the game way before that was a common belief.....

I'd say given Joe Tucker's videos even an avg player should be able to exceed 4-11 and 50% breaking 9ball with a little time invested..

Many instructors are still teaching center ball as hard as you can control and full hit on the 1ball are all there is to the break.... There is way more to it and almost all of the better players know it.

I cannot think of very many of the true pros who have weak breaks and 4-11 and 50% is definitely a weak number.

If I am not mistaken those percentages date back to the days of slow cloth....
Click to expand...
 
Making a ball is more about the rack than the break.... I don't subscribe to the your break sucks if you don't make a ball myth... If the rack is tight and straight your percentages go up... This is the main reason rack your own is my choice of formats.... What makes for a good break is controlling the cueball and the 1ball... This is the main reason I don't use the 1 in the side break very often anymore......

10 tables in 10 rooms sounds like a fair test on the surface but 100 breaks will wear out the quick twitch muscles... I'd also expect the practice time allotted to the pro's at a major event prior to beginning the test on any of the tables....

Maybe the distinction we are crossing wires on is the definition of a pro.... I tend to only watch my favorites at the tournaments or I am watching the TV table matches where the better pros are usually playing... My favorites all have stellar breaks and have put in the time to learn everything they can about the break shot... I don't tend to watch what I would call the also-rans because if they aren't going to have a shot at winning the event I would consider them more shortstop than pro.

I know Pat Fleming had compiled breaking stats that are similar to Randy's numbers but he admitted that the stats were more than a decade old when I was talking to him at the Open 2 years ago when I asked him why he didn't score break errors when a player failed to make a ball or didn't leave a shot on the one ball....

3 months later he stuck me on the TV table in Nashville against Robb Saez so I could see just how hard it really was to make a ball after I had been critical of several so called pros not making balls and getting the one ball in good position....

Robb trounced me 11-6 but not once did I break dry or not leave a shot on the one in that match. If it wasn't for my break it might have been way uglier than 11-6... my nerves failed me... Not my break...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top