Break Test..
- Thread starter Muxy
- Start date
What is there to feel?
Unless someone is absolutely trying to squeeze every last bit of speed out of their break and do it so consistantly, what is the point?
I certainly don't attempt to hit the rack with everything I've got, so what would it matter that one cue that is stroked by a machine can get .25 mph faster out of the cueball than the cue I'm using?
Unless there was something remarkable about one above another, ie. it was twice as fast as the competition....it doesn't matter.
Dave
Unless someone is absolutely trying to squeeze every last bit of speed out of their break and do it so consistantly, what is the point?
I certainly don't attempt to hit the rack with everything I've got, so what would it matter that one cue that is stroked by a machine can get .25 mph faster out of the cueball than the cue I'm using?
Unless there was something remarkable about one above another, ie. it was twice as fast as the competition....it doesn't matter.
Dave
Muxy,,,beware of the hype,,,notice that what they sell is showing the best numbers,,,,never even seen some of those brands in central MS,,,,if their brand cues showed up last in any category, we would never see the results,,(wink, wink)
JMHO,,,,(waiting for the non-believers to attack my opinion),,,,jflan
JMHO,,,,(waiting for the non-believers to attack my opinion),,,,jflan
I mostly agree with this for the vast majority of players. Watch a mid-level nine ball tournament some time and see how many of the players have abandonned control for a loud bang. I suspect that most players who want to improve their break would be better off experimenting with different weights and balances on their break cue rather than buying a stick that might move the ball 3% faster than a Wallabushka.Mr. Wilson said:
RichardCranium said:
I totally agree - that was the first thing that entered my mind as I saw these ratings. I have a Cuetec J/B (who knew it was the 2nd best break cue out there?) which I put a phenolic tip on, and the difference between before and after is HUGE - it's night and day between the leather tip and the phenolic. In any case, as Mr. Wilson and Bob have pointed out, those of us not looking to slam-break (I'm one of those more in favor of control than power) should view those ratings with a bit of trepidation. Ratings based on speed don't mean much to a control player.
-djb
I think I'm going to depart from what I'm reading here. What you are all saying about it not mattering is only the case if you already have one. Like me, I already have a J/B cue. Am I going to go get a new one because of that test? No.
However, if your in the market either because you don't have one at all or because your not satisfied with the one you have, why not take a good look at that test.
No you shouldn't use 100% strength on your break shot. But if you are going to purchase one anyway, why not purchase one that will give you a little more while your still trying to stay in control.
However, if your in the market either because you don't have one at all or because your not satisfied with the one you have, why not take a good look at that test.
No you shouldn't use 100% strength on your break shot. But if you are going to purchase one anyway, why not purchase one that will give you a little more while your still trying to stay in control.
That's so true, the tip makes a huge difference. Did you have any trouble putting the phenolic tip on the Cuetec, and do you have any advice about doing it? I'd like to try one on my Cuetec B/J but just putting a new regular tip on it a few years ago was a nightmare!DoomCue said:
Kerry Impson said:
Nope, didn't have a problem at all. I did it the same way I do regular tips. Just to clarify, it's just the phenolic TIP I'm using, not the ferrule/tip combo. I used Krazy Glue gel on the tip and ferrule (make sure you rough the side of the tip going on the ferrule), slap the tip on, let it dry for about 30 minutes (I usually only wait two for a leather tip), shape it, and it's done. Haven't had to do anything since. I use a Willard's Tip Replacement System tool for my tips. Image below.
I'd advise, since you had a problem with installing a leather tip, to let a pro handle the phenolic tip installation. I've known several people who did their own phenolic tips, only to have them pop off after the first couple of breaks. Also, be prepared for your arms to wear out when you try to shape the tip or scuff it to increase the surface area. I used an iron rasp for shaping - I used a Tip Pik to increase the surface area. Using the rasp wasn't so bad, using the Tip Pik was a nightmare. I have a friend who just cut a series of square grooves in the surface of his tip with a knife.
-djb
BrianK74 said:
Of course the tip makes a big difference. Also it was said above that the cues that did the best are the ones they carry. If I had done the test, the ones that did the best are the ones I'd carry to sell! All I'm saying is the if your in the market you can look at the test. When I clicked on the first or second stick (forget which), it said what kind of tip it had on it. So you look at the comparison, look at what tip that stick had. If that one doesn't say you email them to find out.
What your talking about is when a particular manufacturer does a study and there product comes out on top. Then you have to wonder if they didn't prejudice the test in some way. This was a retailer that did this. There is no reason for them to fix the test one way or the other. It simple tells them which sticks to stock the most of. It benefited them as much as the consumer to do the test fairly.
Muxy said:
The thing that all of these studies overlook is that KE = 1/2 * mv^2. (mass * velocity squared). When the tip strikes the ball, there is some loss of energy that is absorbed by the tip, shaft, arm, etc...
Mass influences the relationship linearly but velocity is squared, so a small increase/decrease in velocity will have a much larger effect than a similar change in mass. Even though they say that their robot arm is able to use cues of different weights without "significant" change in the speed of the cue. Changes in velocity are squared so even if they appear insignificant when applied to velocity, they are still significant in the amount of kinetic energy transferred from the cue to the ball. Especially since they are
measuring to two decimal places.
Other than that, it looks like with a few exceptions (those exceptions being the cue-tecs and the predator, which have completely different construction and so you would expect them to be different), the test measures the drag of heavier cues on the robot arm more than the characteristics of the cue. i.e. The top cues for results were exactly 19.0 oz. Heavier cues were moving slower because they created a drag on the robot, the effect of which was squared on the cueball. Lighter cues were moving at the speed the robot arm was set at becaue it could easily achieve that speed with them in it. And 19.0 oz. cues were the heaviest to achieve the maximum velocity.
Also, I think the compression of the tip is the single largest factor for energy absorption during the break, and since they didn't mention the tips, it seems like there is not enough information to make any useful sense of the results.
By the way, if you're a quick person, you're much better off with a light break cue that you can achieve higher velocity with. Try breaking with a 16 oz. house cue sometime and see what you think. Most people break with too heavy a cue in my opinion.
Cheers,
Regas
drivermaker
Banned
RichardCranium said:
I've not only done the same thing with my break cues but also my playing cues. Naturally, not only willl you have a difference in feel, but you'll also have a difference in performance characteristics and success based on your stroke, tempo, and timing.
What you THINK you like and should be using isn't necessarily what you'll end up using. It's a very interesting study and experiment that everyone should go through. It can also vary from one cue to the next. Why? I have no idea.
Big Jon could probably tell us.
RichardCranium said:
That depends on your agility. Some people can only move their arm so fast, then using a heavier cue will work better. Some people can move their arm faster with a lighter cue and in that case it will be worth it.
Absolutely. I just suggested the 16 oz. cue to give them the other extreme and then I expect they will find something in the middle.
Cheers,
Regas
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sixpack said:
Most of the advertisements about Break Cues are about speed. Speed is important, however consistant speed might be more important than high speed.
Accuracy of hit, controlled speed & Cue Ball control on the Break Shot are the most important factors. Just about everyone can hit the ball hard enough to make balls on the break, if you know how, & control the cue ball at the same time.
Losing control of the cue ball is not a consideration when playing pool, position is far too important. The same importance applies to the Break Shot too.
i use a fury break jump. got used to it after a day of breaking. i can break light and the balls will spread. i can smash the rack make a few balls and have a nice spread. the cue ball stays around the middle of the table. and after i got used to the stick i dont miscue no more. even when i smash the rack. *knock on wood*.
i think it depends on how you break for the control part. this stick breaks hard and you can control it after you get used to it.
i think it depends on how you break for the control part. this stick breaks hard and you can control it after you get used to it.