Break velocity

meharis

meharis

Registered
I've been searching through the forum but haven't really found the rught answers to a question that I have.

At present I'm trying to increase my break velocity, but am somehow stuck...
I understand that it's key to hit the cue ball pretty much in the center, but I just can't get over 20mph.
I'm checking my break speed with my Iphone, and the speed has now become quite reproducible at just under said value.
I guess that I now have to increase the acceleration if my arm... but how?
Some hints would be awesome!

I really don't want start a discussion about the necessuty thereof, nor about the indisputable fact that control is key....
 
First you need to develop speed in your bicep muscle.

Then you need to work on the timing required to bring your body, hips and legs into the break shot.

Interesting read on Fast Twitch Muscle Fibers, which you need to develop in your upper arm.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/betteru25.htm



meharis said:
I've been searching through the forum but haven't really found the rught answers to a question that I have.

At present I'm trying to increase my break velocity, but am somehow stuck...
I understand that it's key to hit the cue ball pretty much in the center, but I just can't get over 20mph.
I'm checking my break speed with my Iphone, and the speed has now become quite reproducible at just under said value.
I guess that I now have to increase the acceleration if my arm... but how?
Some hints would be awesome!

I really don't want start a discussion about the necessuty thereof, nor about the indisputable fact that control is key....
Click to expand...
 
Thank you Randy.

BTW did you get my phone message from a couple of weeks ago? I would like to talk with you regarding it.
 
meharis said:
I've been searching through the forum but haven't really found the rught answers to a question that I have.

At present I'm trying to increase my break velocity, but am somehow stuck...
I understand that it's key to hit the cue ball pretty much in the center, but I just can't get over 20mph.
I'm checking my break speed with my Iphone, and the speed has now become quite reproducible at just under said value.
I guess that I now have to increase the acceleration if my arm... but how?
Some hints would be awesome!

I really don't want start a discussion about the necessuty thereof, nor about the indisputable fact that control is key....
Click to expand...

Standing more upright lengthens the arm and gives you more arc for force. I have a few dozen other breaking tips on my site including this one about moving the bridge hand during the stroke.
 
Moving the bridge hand

BilliardsAbout said:
Standing more upright lengthens the arm and gives you more arc for force. I have a few dozen other breaking tips on my site including this one about moving the bridge hand during the stroke.
Click to expand...

I hope you are kidding, and your article states the break is a disadvantage in 8 ball? I would have to disagree. I watched many a great player live this year; SVB, Stevie Moore, Jeff Beckley, Mark Adad, Jesse Engel, John Morra plus other regional players and I would say it is a huge advantage to break. Case in point, I played Lee Heuwagon for three hours, eight ball on a diamond bar box. I shot 3 times. He had all the breaks. Come play him, give him all the breaks, and see how you fair.
 
Try puting most of your weight on your front foot.... Stop at the cue ball for atleast 1 second then come back slowly on your back swing to build energy... Then accelerate fast threw the cueball .. Btw 20 is not a bad break speed... Control whitey :)
 
While not directly applicable to a pool break, I find the info in this video to be very interesting and helps to explain the concept of "timing" and how important it is in accelerating an object in a short time frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDlwhITEp8

I wonder if anyone has done a similar analysis for the break?
 
Not to the extent of the groups video you attached. A number of instructors and members of this forum have worked to break down the steps of the breakshot. One of the first that I was aware of is Bert kinester.

I belive mosconiac did video analysis of different professionals that show their likes and differences. Collin of course did some instructional video as well.

I am on my iPhone now which doesnt led itself to research on this as I type. I apologize in advance if I forgot anyone due to my poor memory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
No, you can move the bridge hand on the break stroke. We're talking about a slight move to lengthen and extend the stroke without losing impact. The cue ball takes to the air on the break anyway, so...

The break is a disadvantage for non-professional players. There are APA 7's and 8's who if they go by coin toss need to pass the break to win.

I know people who've run ten racks in competition who agree it's a disadvantage for them, too...

I broke four in off a break yesterday and... then I didn't break any on the next rack. Such is life.
 
Wow... I think we need a break subcategory at this point.. While it is way better than it was.... There is way way too much speculation in the "instructor's" forum than should be allowed.... and most of it is just wrong.....

This is one area, where the idea of those that can't do.... teach, goes right out the window....

If you can't break em, you likely will never be able to teach it...
 
Quite some interesting replies here.

IMHO moving the bridge is a no-go, because of the simple reason, that this implies introducing a potential source of error and thus inevitably leads to a lack of control. I hope we can agree that speed is nothing without control.

I'll try putting some more weight on the front foot and standing more upright - see if that helps.

As for the break cue: it's a custom cue by an excellent and probably still quite unknown cuemaker (CEM), it has a diamond tip and carbon (G10) ferrule.

Regarding the (dis)advantage of breaking - if you learn to control your break, it's always an advantage, at least in my opinion.
 
You know, if you did a video of you breaking, we all would be better able to point out where improvements can happen.

Fast breaking needs two thing, you need to develop a fast swing using your bicept (hence the fast twich muscle fibers need developed) then you need to work on the timing required to have your legs, hips and arm, and wrist moving in stages so that you are building speed, upon speed (Bert Kinisters term).

A video will show your timing, but we cannot address your arm swing, you have to do that yourself.


meharis said:
Quite some interesting replies here.

IMHO moving the bridge is a no-go, because of the simple reason, that this implies introducing a potential source of error and thus inevitably leads to a lack of control. I hope we can agree that speed is nothing without control.

I'll try putting some more weight on the front foot and standing more upright - see if that helps.

As for the break cue: it's a custom cue by an excellent and probably still quite unknown cuemaker (CEM), it has a diamond tip and carbon (G10) ferrule.

Regarding the (dis)advantage of breaking - if you learn to control your break, it's always an advantage, at least in my opinion.
Click to expand...
 
The Renfro said:
Wow... I think we need a break subcategory at this point.. While it is way better than it was.... There is way way too much speculation in the "instructor's" forum than should be allowed.... and most of it is just wrong.....

This is one area, where the idea of those that can't do.... teach, goes right out the window....

If you can't break em, you likely will never be able to teach it...
Click to expand...

Not so, my friend. I'm getting older and need ear plugs when I bust 'em hard. :cool:

The thing about teaching breaking is there are many, many different ways to generate momentum and power on a break and even the top pros here bring different methods to bear so most of us are careful about which tips to give out.

For example, and this may create controversy, I've been assessing lately whether "draw back like a bow slowly on the final backstroke to generate tension and power" is a good idea for increasing power or rather a good break idea because it helps minimize mishits and unwanted english coming forward again. If you have quick enough hands and good timing, you can smash 'em apart with a short, quick backstroke.
 
meharis said:
Quite some interesting replies here.

IMHO moving the bridge is a no-go, because of the simple reason, that this implies introducing a potential source of error and thus inevitably leads to a lack of control. I hope we can agree that speed is nothing without control.

I'll try putting some more weight on the front foot and standing more upright - see if that helps.

As for the break cue: it's a custom cue by an excellent and probably still quite unknown cuemaker (CEM), it has a diamond tip and carbon (G10) ferrule.

Regarding the (dis)advantage of breaking - if you learn to control your break, it's always an advantage, at least in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Good point. Arching the bridge hand slightly up and toward the rack increases control as the loop of the hand stays center ball, the bridge tightens toward the shot keeping the cue online, etc. Speed plus control. Try it. You might like it.

You are correct about controlling the break. Playing a relatively "safe break" in 8-Ball is tougher, though, than say, Straight Pool IMO. Although if the 8-Ball rack looks like a pack in Straight Pool after the break, I'm happy to look for the combos and caroms most do not...
 
I'm not an instructor, by any means, but I like to think I've studied the h*ll out of the fundamentals and what the instructors here offer; and this: ...with a short, quick backstroke. has never, that I can ever recall, been promoted as a good idea or a suggestion by anyone. Furthermore, I can't think of a single pro that uses that style of backswing.

Obviously, this game is a matter of "what works for you, might not work for me", so if that's what works best, then by all means, use it. But, you have to also know that it goes against pretty much every version of what's considered "proper" and as such not promote it.
 
stljohnny...You're right! A "quick backswing" is the complete opposite of what we would want, in any ideal stroke. 30+ years ago Jerry Briesath taught us all to teach a "slow" backswing...because everybody backswings too fast. Nowadays we like to use the term "smooth" backswing. As long as you have a smooth transition, it can be a tiny bit faster. That said, anything 'quick' in the stroke is almost universally bound to cause errors...at least in timing.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

stljohnny said:
I'm not an instructor, by any means, but I like to think I've studied the h*ll out of the fundamentals and what the instructors here offer; and this: ...with a short, quick backstroke. has never, that I can ever recall, been promoted as a good idea or a suggestion by anyone. Furthermore, I can't think of a single pro that uses that style of backswing.

Obviously, this game is a matter of "what works for you, might not work for me", so if that's what works best, then by all means, use it. But, you have to also know that it goes against pretty much every version of what's considered "proper" and as such not promote it.
Click to expand...
 
stljohnny said:
I'm not an instructor, by any means, but I like to think I've studied the h*ll out of the fundamentals and what the instructors here offer; and this: ...with a short, quick backstroke. has never, that I can ever recall, been promoted as a good idea or a suggestion by anyone. Furthermore, I can't think of a single pro that uses that style of backswing.

Obviously, this game is a matter of "what works for you, might not work for me", so if that's what works best, then by all means, use it. But, you have to also know that it goes against pretty much every version of what's considered "proper" and as such not promote it.
Click to expand...

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