Breaking with ivory joint?
- Thread starter caponekid
- Start date
caponekid said:
Doubtful, unless you have a King Kong break or you don't get the cue screwed together snugly. You would have an easier time cracking an ivory joint neglecting proper care of the cue, e.g. temp and humidity changes like leaving it exposed out in your car for long periods of time.
I leave my ivory cue out on the table before I play to adjust to room temp. Maybe this is unnecessary, but in years of owning ivory jointed cues, I have not cracked one. I did buy a cue with a cracked joint. Care about keeping it from temp extremes and fast temp change has prevented the crack from moving. Just remember the cuemaker guarantee...ivory is warranteed right up to the point where it passes through the cue shop doorway. After that, you're on your own.
I have broken (Ivory) Ferrules before when breaking based on that I don't break with Ivory jointed cues. However I have a very strong break typically ivory stands up pretty good unless something is not jointed well or you have a real strong break. Cue balls were made of Ivory at one time so it is pretty tough but I would avoid crushing the ball just to be safe.
How does the ivory handle the temp changes in the cargo hold of jets? I hate that I cannot take my cue on the plane with me any longer.
I broke Nine Ball and Bar Box for several years in the 70s with a flat faced ivory joint and ivory ferrules. I always let it warm to room temp in the Wintertime. Nary a problem. A drunken woman friend did hit the table with the ivory butt cap and split it very neatly. She walked home 
. Would I do this today ? Nope. Why ? I use a sneaky in bar league anyway but with a great break cue(J&J) available from Koinkid for $65 there doesn't seem to be a reason to take a chance that I can think of...Tom
. Would I do this today ? Nope. Why ? I use a sneaky in bar league anyway but with a great break cue(J&J) available from Koinkid for $65 there doesn't seem to be a reason to take a chance that I can think of...Tom
Mike Zuglan broke with his ivory jointed Joss for years and never damaged it. On the other hand, I knew a local guy who ordered a custom Joss East with an ivory joint, never broke with it, and one day it split all the way through to the pin. Dan Janes had advised him against getting the ivory joint, but he insisted. Had it replaced with implex.
I have an ivory sleeve joint Capone like yours. It's fine to break with and you shouldn't worry about it cracking. The majority of the pressure from the break is gonna be on the wood core and then the phenolic ring just before the ivory ring.
You should be fine.
You should be fine.
Kam,kamdaswani said:not sure about breaking but if you have an ivory butt cap be careful cos this just happened to one of mine
am having it replaced with an ivory substitute ...
I've never understood using ivory for a butt cap if the cue is going to be played with. I don't abuse my cues and i'd probably never bump an ivory butt cap hard enough to crack it, but to me ivory is too brittle to take a bump and not crack like the ivory substitutes can. I like ivory inlays, ivory trim rings, and ivory joints, but not ivory butt caps.
James
I have heard that Ivory Butt caps hold up well to a side impact bump, but don't fair too well to the ground tapping (even the good shot guesture tap from days of old)...apparantly if you catch it just a bit tilted it can crack it because of the thinn-ness of the wall compaired to the size.
The tip is thicker walled in ratio of the overall size and should never take a direct angled impact to the ivory like a butt cap could. (unless part of your tip is missing I guess)...a miscue is more of a side impact to the ivory....If you are breaking with a tip factors of breakage would be cue speed generated and the thickness of tip...A thin tip and a hard break would probably lend itself to a ferrulle crack.
The other reason is due to where the ivory came from. "What part of the tusk"?
I could not tell you which part, but from what I am told there is a specific section of tusk that is best for making components.
Some components made from leftover scrap ivory may not be the best part of the tusk to use becuase it is too soft or too brittle or something like that...I don't know the details on which part is the best section and did not really ask.
I would imagine that wall thickness could vary from cue maker to cuemaker since they use differnt bumper configurations and may have some effect on overall strength
anyway just some info to ask your cuemaker about and see what his opinion is...I am sure that there will be differing opinions...some cuemakers may pay no attention to what ivory they are using....
I am having a cue made and the cuemaker is waiting for availability of very specific ivory for the joint and butt cap....and no he is not up-charging me for the ivory...it is just the way he builds cues.
He did say there is added risk of cracking on the butt cap over phenolic or wood due to the above factors.....but if it does crack it is eaily fixable.
The tip is thicker walled in ratio of the overall size and should never take a direct angled impact to the ivory like a butt cap could. (unless part of your tip is missing I guess)...a miscue is more of a side impact to the ivory....If you are breaking with a tip factors of breakage would be cue speed generated and the thickness of tip...A thin tip and a hard break would probably lend itself to a ferrulle crack.
The other reason is due to where the ivory came from. "What part of the tusk"?
I could not tell you which part, but from what I am told there is a specific section of tusk that is best for making components.
Some components made from leftover scrap ivory may not be the best part of the tusk to use becuase it is too soft or too brittle or something like that...I don't know the details on which part is the best section and did not really ask.
I would imagine that wall thickness could vary from cue maker to cuemaker since they use differnt bumper configurations and may have some effect on overall strength
anyway just some info to ask your cuemaker about and see what his opinion is...I am sure that there will be differing opinions...some cuemakers may pay no attention to what ivory they are using....
I am having a cue made and the cuemaker is waiting for availability of very specific ivory for the joint and butt cap....and no he is not up-charging me for the ivory...it is just the way he builds cues.
He did say there is added risk of cracking on the butt cap over phenolic or wood due to the above factors.....but if it does crack it is eaily fixable.
metallicane said:
Anything where there's extreme change, you're running a risk. A good tight packaging job can help mitigate that though....
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caponekid said:
Not sure, as Ive played pool for darn near 40 years now and know less about cues than anyone on the planet and that is by design. I have enough to worry about and knowledge can be very dangerous.
A funny story about Ivory though.
Years ago I had one of Billy Struds cues with the Ivory joint and ferrules. I kept cracking the ferrules and pretty soon all I thought about was those ferrules and how much it was costing me to replace them. Then I noticed that I only broke them while in Denver and never while I was out on the road.
Finally I broke the 4th one and I was about to have a nervous breakdown over it. Billy still lived in Colorado Springs at the time so I make the 70 mile trip south to get it replaced,,,,,,, AGAIN.
Billy is a different kind of bird sometimes and looks at it and strts to machine the dam thing off, when I stop hime and ask what in the Hell could be causing that.
Billy stops, looks at me, and says he can't believe I haven't fugured it out. In my amazement I just stared at him waiting for his explanation as he starts back to work on it again.
I stopped him again. He turned off his machine and says,"look, Ivory just doesn't work in high altitudes. Ivory is a living organism, but goes dormant in high altitude making it brittle and that is why it breaks or cracks">
Now I'm standing there like an idiot staring and really don't know if I'm being jerked around or what when I argue, "Well that don't hold water because I spend lots of time on the road in Texas and Oklahoma, and the south in general and have never had a problem with it down there."
Billy stares at me for a second and looks at me like I just fell off a melon truck when he asks me, "amd what is the elevation or altitude DOWN there?"
"Hell, I don't know I'm just sick of these ferrules cracking on me." I explain
"Well, then change to something that isn't affected by altitude chang and yoou won't have a problem" Billy says.
Now at this point I don't know if I'm getting the business or what, and feel like a complete idiot, but I agree it is time to change. Billy agrees.
Suddenly, it hits me, "how long have you known about this"
i ask?
" he replies dryly< "since I was about 10 or 12 years old".
"Why did you let me keep changing to Ivory"?
" That's what you said you want, and I needed the money"! he says
Now I'm seething hot, confused, and don't know if I'm getting Jacked off or not, but we discuss what to change to and he does so. He gets done with it, I pay him and I'm just about to leave when I trun back and ask, "?"Will this s--- be affected by the altitude changes like Ivory?"
Billy just looks at me rather strangely and says," look, I'm just a cue builder, not a scientist"!
I'm really a pretty smart guy when I'm not picking straw from my teeth.
Good advice.......
When you can pick up a cheap break cue I would go along with Tom, why take the chance?tpdtom said:I broke Nine Ball and Bar Box for several years in the 70s with a flat faced ivory joint and ivory ferrules. I always let it warm to room temp in the Wintertime. Nary a problem. A drunken woman friend did hit the table with the ivory butt cap and split it very neatly. She walked home