Breaking with your cue?

[WesleyW]

I know a guy who breaks with a cue with a 314 and has been for some time, and he breaks them as hard as anyone I know. And he has been using the same 314 with no problems. So there is no certainty the ferrule will crack.

It's only a matter of time. Do this guy owns a 314 or a 314-2. The newer ones got weaker ferrule. Try the search function, and you can find a lot problems on the ferrules.

Have you ever got a "rope burn" on your thumb from the linen? Maybe my follow through is a little much sometimes.

I use a rubber wrap, never got burn

 

[mullyman]

I'm in the "break with your playing cue" camp. I've owned dozens of cues over the years, including exotic stuff like Balabushkas, Szambotis, Joss West, Cognoscenti, Ginacue, and many more. Every cuemaker I've ever talked to told me that if you can't break with your cue, it "ain't worth crap". I currently play, and break, with a $4000 custom Samsara. I use layered tips, and they NEVER mushroom, delaminate, or anything. Like Neil, I never do anything to my tips, except chalk them. Mine, however, last for at least a couple of years.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Same here, man. A very well known and respected cue maker told me that the cue is made to be played with and breaking is part of the game. I also inquired about one of my cues being refinished because it picked up a few dingers and he said "If you play with your cue dingers are going to happen."

I can agree that things happen like hitting it on the edge of the table or someone knocking it over but man, I hate it when a cue has dents and dings in it.....especially on the shaft. It drives me nuts to see someone reaching their cue across the table to sweep a ball up and they hit it fairly hard. That shaft must feel like a foot massager.
MULLY
I still use a break cue though....but my play cues feel better breaking

 

[edd]

I know people who swear up and down that you shouldn't break with your playing cue. I know some break cues are designed for a better break but if you use a regular cue are you really risking any damage? I mean a good solid break isn't much harder of a hit than a power draw shot which I will apply without thinking twice about.

What is everyones opinion on this?

My break cue is lighter than my shooting cue, which helps with generating speed. Also, I like the visceral feel of then shifting back to my playing cue. The difference in feel and weight, helps me with set-up and shot making.

 

[Cuedog]

Although breaking with your playing tip can cause mushrooming, the real problem is that your tip will lose it's true hardness.

What I mean by that is, if you play with a medium Tiger tip, for example, after a bunch of breaks, your tip is no longer a "medium" hardness. Leather compresses with each and every break.

If you're not too picky about that...I say break on.

Gene

 

[Hierovision]

I've been using a medium-soft break in 9-ball with my 1/4 inch ferrule shaft and it's holding up great. I used it once for 10-ball but I prefer a much harder break for that game... and would rather use my Varney anyway. I get just the right amount of scatter playing 9-ball if I break with my playing cue. I usually make one or two and have a great spread with the cueball parked center table. It's hard to beat the control you get with a playing cue and a soft break.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

assuming your using decent equipment...

It depends on your break.. if your of the "jump up in the air hit it absolutely as hard as you possibly can and let out a banshee scream when your done" school... then you will gloss your tip over pretty quickly and therefore have to scuff it a little more often.. increasing the rate of wear on your tip...

LOL, that made me laugh.

 

[Oddball]

So I guess an OB-1 is okay to break with since it doesn't have that white plastic/ivory ferrule, right?

 

[RRfireblade]

Everyone has an opinion of course . . . here's another.

Any decent playing will hold up just fine breaking.

All leather tips get harder and harder the longer you use them , breaking or not. When they are 'softer' they need reshaping more often and less and less so as they get harder , again breaking or not.

That being said , I use a break cue for 2 reasons. I prefer a lighter cue for breaking and because I have scratched/gouged/etc shafts and butts on table edges before and I ain't goin to chance that on my player.

IMO tho , I wouldn't spend more than $100 on a break cue.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I disagree. Power draw (applying backspin from across table) is almost the same except you drill it with low spin. Also, when I break I am not trying to bash it as hard as I can because I always send the cue ball off the table. I still slam the rack nicely though.

While you might hit your break at about 15-17 mph, and this statement might apply to you, there are two things wrong with this as general advice.

First, I hit my break at 23-27 mph. This is WAY harder than the hardest power draw I will ever do. 12 mph is enough to get 2 table lengths of draw. Whether or not you send the cueball off the table really has nothing to do with how someone else might hit the rack.

Second, hitting low spin results in a considerable reduction in the stress on the cue. This is because in a center ball hit, nearly 100% of the energy is transferred into the cue ball, which means maximum stress on the cue. In a strong draw shot, I doubt 50% of the energy is going into *moving* the cue ball. Spinning the ball does not create nearly the same force on the cue tip that striking it dead center does.

Just for clarification...

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I am fairly inconsistent when I try to hit it as hard as I can. If I smack them hard with a good stroke I keep the ball on the table everytime. I agree with the cause of the ball flying off the table though. Part of that particular problem is I like to put the bridge hand on the rail.

Curious...why do you like to do that when it results in inconsistent breaks? Most everyone agrees that bridging on the rail in general is a no-no, and doubly so on the break. I strongly encourage you to get rid of this fundamental problem and learn to break from the head string. You can take a step in that direction by learning to place your cue on the rail and form your bridge around that. It works well for many players. I still think, however, that it is inferior to breaking with your bridge on the bed of the table. Think of the benefit of being able to break hard AND soft as needed.

My $0.02

KMRUNOUT

 

[RRfireblade]

Second, hitting low spin results in a considerable reduction in the stress on the cue. This is because in a center ball hit, nearly 100% of the energy is transferred into the cue ball, which means maximum stress on the cue. In a strong draw shot, I doubt 50% of the energy is going into *moving* the cue ball. Spinning the ball does not create nearly the same force on the cue tip that striking it dead center does.

Just for clarification...

KMRUNOUT

Just for the sake of the discussion . . .

I'm not sure I agree. If you look at some of the high speed stuff , the tip goes thru alot more deformation and torque on a 'spin' shot than it does on a center ball shot as well as far more directional shaft and even joint flex. Most likely due to the forces being directed on only part of the mass of the shaft as oppoed to evenly distributed down the center of the mass of the shaft. My gut feeling is that a hard hit spin (draw or whatever) is probably capable of more all around cue damage/wear/whatever than an equally hit center ball shot.

IMO.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Shatter is more like it. My buddy, who doesn't break hard, shattered his in a 100 pieces by breaking with it!
Jeremy

I break pretty hard (27 mph) and break just with a regular 314 shaft. I also have the break shaft. I have cracked 1 ferrule and folded 2. All of these incdents happened in an extended session of hitting the "Break Rak" device. This means I was breaking once every 10 seconds or so for like 1/2 hour. This can actually cause the ferrule and tip to heat up. In normal play, I have never had this happen.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Just for the sake of the discussion . . .

I'm not sure I agree. If you look at some of the high speed stuff , the tip goes thru alot more deformation and torque on a 'spin' shot than it does on a center ball shot as well as far more directional shaft and even joint flex. Most likely due to the forces being directed on only part of the mass of the shaft as oppoed to evenly distributed down the center of the mass of the shaft. My gut feeling is that a hard hit spin (draw or whatever) is probably capable of more all around cue damage/wear/whatever than an equally hit center ball shot.

IMO.

Assuming we are comparing a 13 mph draw shot vs. a 13 mph center ball hit, you might be right about the overall amount of potential damage to the shaft, tip, ferrule, etc., due to the lateral forces involved. I doubt that these factors play much of a role at the joint. In this area, I think that the center ball hit would make a much greater impact on the joint. But yeah, as for the tip and ferrule, you're probably right.

KMRUNOUT

 

[RRfireblade]

Assuming we are comparing a 13 mph draw shot vs. a 13 mph center ball hit, you might be right about the overall amount of potential damage to the shaft, tip, ferrule, etc., due to the lateral forces involved. I doubt that these factors play much of a role at the joint. In this area, I think that the center ball hit would make a much greater impact on the joint. But yeah, as for the tip and ferrule, you're probably right.

KMRUNOUT

Def hard say , it seems tho that the off center flexing is going to flex back to the joint laterally some. If your stacking that force down the center of the shaft then is should pass right thru the joint (one of the reasons why I personally like a true wood to wood joint) with out issue.

Could be negligable by the time you get to the joint tho so could be a non issue.

 

[Snapshot9]

Playing cue

If your cue is < $500, would be okay, although when you can get a J&J Break/jump cue for $60, why do it?

I am hard on cues that I break with, and they get a little scarred up, so why scar up your playing cue when you do not have to.

If you have a nice playing cue, keep it nice, get a break cue. Break cues are designed for breaking, i.e., 14 mm harder tips, shorter ferrules, conical tapers, stiffer.

 

[worriedbeef]

why scar up your playing cue when you do not have to.

that's the bottom line for me.

i am fussy with my shafts - i like them to be perfectly smooth and clean and last thing i wanna do is put a slight ding or dent in my shaft which i run the risk of doing if i break with it. i like to be able to relax when i break and be free to do a huge ass ninja style follow through and whack my cue into the light above the table. a dedicated break cue allows this.

i do believe the huge ass ninja style follow through is a key element in a world class break. perhaps blackjack or someone can chime in here with some thoughts as to why this is the case.

 

[MasterClass]

I was playing and breaking with my play cue for a over a year. I learn that it is actually possible to crack the shaft wood under the ferrule without breaking the ferrule.

Thats what happen to my cue. so i guess it is possible it will happen to any cue.

 

[kaznj]

I was talking to Danny Basavich about breaking in 8 ball. He is a big advocate of hitting the second ball. He uses one cue for breaking and playing. I always heard this is not a good idea because you mess up the playing tip. Danny said you don't need to hit the second ball that hard , but you do need draw and some english to pull the cb back away from the side rail toward the center of the table. If the break tip is flat you can't get the draw and english you need. This is why he uses his playing stick to break. Makes sense. Now what to I do with my $400 Predator break cue.

 

[SCCues]

I know people who swear up and down that you shouldn't break with your playing cue. I know some break cues are designed for a better break but if you use a regular cue are you really risking any damage? I mean a good solid break isn't much harder of a hit than a power draw shot which I will apply without thinking twice about.

What is everyones opinion on this?

I'd never break with my playing cue, but there are playing cues that could hold up to breaking. My cue has a predator shaft (soft ferrule, hollow shaft at the ferrule, and a Moori soft tip) and it just wouldn't hold up to hard breaking. Cues with solid standard shafts, steel joints, and non ivory ferrules could be used for breaking, but the tip would take more of a beating than normal playing.

James

 

[Bigtruck]

Depends

So I guess an OB-1 is okay to break with since it doesn't have that white plastic/ivory ferrule, right?

Royce Bunnell swears its ok to break with your OB-1, but I have exploded 2 ferrules already! OB-1 has replaced both, no questions asked. The inconvienence and not getting them back with Sniper tips was my only gripe.

I now break with a Huebler Hustler with phenolic tip.

Ray