breaking
- Thread starter berlowmj
- Start date
I'm not sure power is what you really need. Perhaps lengthing your bridge a little for better follow thru. I hurt my back recently so I can't break as hard as I like (it's fun but overkill) anyway, I'm making balls on the break including the 9 without expending lots of energy.
PHM
PHM
Bert Kinister has a tape out about breaking with power. Tape #14 "The Big Bang". Basically his philosophy was to get your body moving and then your arm and the speed would be combination of both. EG if your body was moving at 5 mph and you can get your arm to move 15 mph than your break speed would be 20 mph. If you could than push off with your leg another 5 mph than you would now be breaking at 25 mph. Add a wrist flick of another 5 and now you are at 30 mph. Throw in a large expulsion of gas and a sneeze and you are really cranking.
A few years later in another tape he told everyone not to follow the instructions in that tape as too many players were breaking their hand because they were slamming it into the table.
I think all that body movement is for show. If you can get a good stroke and make it accurate you will do a lot better than all that excessive body movement that will make you miscue.
A few years later in another tape he told everyone not to follow the instructions in that tape as too many players were breaking their hand because they were slamming it into the table.
I think all that body movement is for show. If you can get a good stroke and make it accurate you will do a lot better than all that excessive body movement that will make you miscue.
Last edited:
Plus they only left the cueball somewhere on the table about 10% of the time. 90% had the cueball flying off towards the wall.TheBook said:
Follow Through
I found out after pool school I needed to work on my follow through for just normal shots. When I applied it to my break holy sheep s@##. All of a sudden had killer breaks. I always had good breaks before, but like your asking I used to put my whole body into it, in order to achive this feat.
Anyway now that I am just simply following through I don't throw my body weight into it anymore. Heck I don't have to!!! I am getting a killer break just out of a good line up and good follow through.
Just my thoughts though
I found out after pool school I needed to work on my follow through for just normal shots. When I applied it to my break holy sheep s@##. All of a sudden had killer breaks. I always had good breaks before, but like your asking I used to put my whole body into it, in order to achive this feat.
Anyway now that I am just simply following through I don't throw my body weight into it anymore. Heck I don't have to!!! I am getting a killer break just out of a good line up and good follow through.
Just my thoughts though
To answer your question...
Well, since nobody seems to want to give you a straight answer:
If you're really looking to use your body for more power (and make sure you're already hitting the break with control before adding power; power is useless without control), then you want your weight to be shifting from back to front at the time of contact. Many players accomplish this by setting up their stance so that one foot is behind the other (the front and back foot are in a line parallel to the shot), and then shift weight from the back foot to front foot during the break.
A good way to make sure you're shifting weight is to raise the heel of your front foot a half inch off the ground before your backswing, and then pick your back foot up off the ground completely on the follow-through. Raising the front heel will make sure most of your weight is on the back foot, and lifting the back foot will make sure all your weight is on the front foot at follow-through.
Some players not only lift the back foot on follow through, but actually kick it up behind them, which adds additional forward thrust to your body weight by using your hamstring and gluteus muscles (very powerful muscles) to push off the floor.
An exaggerated follow-through also helps for two reasons, the obvious one being that if you're following through, you're not slowing the cue down until well after contact. A less obvious reason is that a very long follow through (I use an open bridge so that the cue won't be impeded and follow through three feet or more when I'm breaking well) requires rotating the torso so that the shooting shoulder is forward at follow through. This utilizes muscles in your torso to add more forward thrust to your shooting arm.
Check out Evgeny Stalev's break (in the 8-ball runouts he breaks like a mack truck) to see an example of getting extreme follow-through, torso rotation, and leg movement into the break. I don't think you should try to copy his break, since it looks like it would take a huge amount of coordination to do it that way, and very few of us can claim Stalev's level of coordination, but he illustrates some of what I'm saying.
Hope this was helpful.
-Andrew
Well, since nobody seems to want to give you a straight answer:
If you're really looking to use your body for more power (and make sure you're already hitting the break with control before adding power; power is useless without control), then you want your weight to be shifting from back to front at the time of contact. Many players accomplish this by setting up their stance so that one foot is behind the other (the front and back foot are in a line parallel to the shot), and then shift weight from the back foot to front foot during the break.
A good way to make sure you're shifting weight is to raise the heel of your front foot a half inch off the ground before your backswing, and then pick your back foot up off the ground completely on the follow-through. Raising the front heel will make sure most of your weight is on the back foot, and lifting the back foot will make sure all your weight is on the front foot at follow-through.
Some players not only lift the back foot on follow through, but actually kick it up behind them, which adds additional forward thrust to your body weight by using your hamstring and gluteus muscles (very powerful muscles) to push off the floor.
An exaggerated follow-through also helps for two reasons, the obvious one being that if you're following through, you're not slowing the cue down until well after contact. A less obvious reason is that a very long follow through (I use an open bridge so that the cue won't be impeded and follow through three feet or more when I'm breaking well) requires rotating the torso so that the shooting shoulder is forward at follow through. This utilizes muscles in your torso to add more forward thrust to your shooting arm.
Check out Evgeny Stalev's break (in the 8-ball runouts he breaks like a mack truck) to see an example of getting extreme follow-through, torso rotation, and leg movement into the break. I don't think you should try to copy his break, since it looks like it would take a huge amount of coordination to do it that way, and very few of us can claim Stalev's level of coordination, but he illustrates some of what I'm saying.
Hope this was helpful.
-Andrew
Last edited:
Thank you everyone. Today, I envisioned piercing the cue ball with a house cue & focussed my chi on the 2nd ball & pocketed one or more balls on about 1/3 of my breaks, which for me was an improvement. I felt a mental connection with the process on the successful breaks. As you suggest, I will concentrate on control before I attempt to recruit other parts of my body. Thank you so much for bothering to assist me at this basic level.
Andrew Manning said:
he almost broke his nuts doing this!! scary
to dangerous for me, no matter how hard he might break.my advice; make sure u concentrate on the acceleration, more then the speed. accelerate and at the top acceleration u hit the cb. this over, acelerating, obtaining max speed with no acceleration left, and then hit the cb. it seems to give me alot more spread on 8ball with half the power.
Andrew Manning said:
In watching other people play, it's a little comical how some people lift their back foot/leg upon breaking.
I see a lot of people break and then lift their back foot or leg, almost like an afterthought. It seems like the way they lift their foot/leg is a waste of energy if it's not one continuous, rhythmic motion with the rest of the body.
PoolSharkAllen said:In watching other people play, it's a little comical how some people lift their back foot/leg upon breaking.
I see a lot of people break and then lift their back foot or leg, almost like an afterthought. It seems like the way they lift their foot/leg is a waste of energy if it's not one continuous, rhythmic motion with the rest of the body.
I definitely agree; in my first post I didn't stress timing very much, but everything I suggested is useless if it's not well timed and coordinated. A torso rotation, leg push, or weight shift can only be helpful during the forward stroke, before/during contact with the cue ball. But I can't explain in text how to have good timing. That takes practice, and in some cases input from another person watching you, or watching yourself on video.
Another idea about improving break power and technique is start learning (preferably with competent instruction) how to hit a golf ball 250 yds. There are many important commonalities, for instance weight transfer, hip/shoulder rotation, smoothness of acceleration, timing of wrist motion, and probably others.
-Andrew
There isn't anything that hasn't been said, so I'll touch on only one point: coordination and timing.
Being able to transfer weight, twist your torso, flick your wrist, etc. etc. only becomes effective when you do them at the right time.
I'm a firm believer that the break is one of the shots you have to practice over and over and over -- much like any drill.
I've got a pretty decent break, yet I'm only 5'7" and 135#. Most of it is timing, and my body doesn't shift/move as much as others I've seen.
Here's a link to a break I was practicing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGeww1qpnIc
Notice that I don't have to kick my rear foot in the air, follow through excessively, or bring my cue tip six feet up in the air (a la Danny Basavich). Get your timing/coordination down and the rest will start to fall into place.
Being able to transfer weight, twist your torso, flick your wrist, etc. etc. only becomes effective when you do them at the right time.
I'm a firm believer that the break is one of the shots you have to practice over and over and over -- much like any drill.
I've got a pretty decent break, yet I'm only 5'7" and 135#. Most of it is timing, and my body doesn't shift/move as much as others I've seen.
Here's a link to a break I was practicing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGeww1qpnIc
Notice that I don't have to kick my rear foot in the air, follow through excessively, or bring my cue tip six feet up in the air (a la Danny Basavich). Get your timing/coordination down and the rest will start to fall into place.
Andrew Manning said:
Stalev has a phenomenal break. In my previous post, I commented on the foot/leg motion that some people have. In the youtube video clip, Stalev's back leg actually landed on the table.
In watching the IPT 8-ball coverage on tv, I noticed that just about everyone breaks from either the right or left of the head spot but not on the head spot. Does breaking from the right or left of the head spot convey any advantages over breaking from the head spot?
Also, in 8-ball, I typically break from the rail center location. Does breaking from the head spot, or close by it, offer any advantages over breaking from the rail location?
Not only when talking about breaking but what ever when you need to have a lot of power on your upper body; all that comes from your legs and hips. So slowly start practicing movements that allowes you to use your all strenght from lower body to build and massive power boost to your upper body. It's not easy (well, it is when you've done your practice), so start slowly to build correct movements from your legs to hips and then add that to your stroke.
Don't trust me on this?
Ok, go on a gym and give that sandbag your best hit without moving your legs and hips. Then do it again with giving it all what you have also in your lower body. I bet that even a blind man that has been dead for 10 years can see the difference.
And most of all, don't stay to focused on power or accuracy or even acceleration alone, it's a combination of them all...so less talk more action; practice.
Don't trust me on this?
Ok, go on a gym and give that sandbag your best hit without moving your legs and hips. Then do it again with giving it all what you have also in your lower body. I bet that even a blind man that has been dead for 10 years can see the difference.
And most of all, don't stay to focused on power or accuracy or even acceleration alone, it's a combination of them all...so less talk more action; practice.
Power is much overrated in breaking. Drive the cue ball directly into the head ball from the center spot for best effect, with a wee bit of follow to keep the cue ball in the middle of the table.
The IPT guys who break off-center are not adapting properly to the IPT rule that defines a "break box" of about one diamond to either side of the head spot. They used to break from the rail into the second row of the rack, which is supposed to get the 8 moving better. Now they can't hit the second row properly, but they're still trying to get as close to the rail as they can.
The IPT guys who break off-center are not adapting properly to the IPT rule that defines a "break box" of about one diamond to either side of the head spot. They used to break from the rail into the second row of the rack, which is supposed to get the 8 moving better. Now they can't hit the second row properly, but they're still trying to get as close to the rail as they can.
Actually, it's quite the opposite. The raising of the foot is the sign that energy is being used. If you follow forward with a lot of motion, something has to move in the other direction. Newton and all that.PoolSharkAllen said:
So, it's not like the leg raisers are purposefully raising their leg, as if that's part of their break routine. The leg just goes up as the arms goes forward.
Fred