Bridge length, cue balancing, etc.

F

fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
Like many amateurs, I struggle with my mechanics fairly frequently. From the day when I picked up a cue as a teen and first decided to actually invest time to take the game seriously....till now....I've tinkered with things.

I've committed myself to attending RandyG's Pool School in either late Fall or early next Spring (mutual schedules permitting). So, I'm hoping that really allows me to elevate my play. As of now, I'm about a D+ on a bad day and a C-, most of the time.

I'm curious about things such as theories on proper bridge length, balance point on the cue, shaft diameter, etc.

I'm a small guy....5'5"....with small hands and it just seems like I'm not very comfortable with my Meucci cue anymore....mostly with respect to my closed bridge.

I feel like I'm just rambling at this point, but my confidence is low lately. I don't feel comfortable at the table anymore and feel like my game's development has plateaued.
 
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fathomblue...Here's some basics that will help you, until you can get to someone like Randy or myself. Put the CB on the spot. Stand down on the CB and put your hand down where you feel the most "comfortable", in terms of how far away your hand is from the CB. Measure this with a ruler. Stand back up and redo this several times, measuring each time. If you do it 10x you will come up with one distance that seems the most common. This will be YOUR natural bridge length. Now, do it again, this time pushing the tip right up to the CB (don't move your bridge hand). Hold the cue in back exactly where your hand falls directly under your elbow. Measure this too, as it will be the correct grip position, to match up with your natural bridge length. This spot has nothing to do with the balance point of the cuestick. It is, however, the correct place for YOU to hold your cue, for most SOP shots. If, on some shots, you change your bridge a little, forwards or backwards, you just move your grip hand up or back. The reason for these measurements is to be able to strike the CB accurately, with a pendulum swing.

Shaft diameter doesn't matter either. That said, you may prefer a smaller diameter shaft. Try to find some friends who have cues that have 12.5mm or 11.75mm shafts. These are standard shaft diameters for most of the aftermarket shafts like Predator, OB, Tiger, G-Core, etc. Remember, you're just testing them for size, because the hit will be different than your Meucci. Once you figure out what you like, you can have any shaft turned down to the specs that you like. This is something any cuemaker can easily do, with any shaft. Hope this helps you. You will love going to pool school!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
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Scott, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking. My best friend is coming by my house in a bit to do some practicing, so maybe he can help me measure bridge length and check for the 90* angle on cue ball contact.

Is there an advantage to a shorter or longer bridge? What would be a "normal range"?

Should my bridge arm be locked? Slight bend?
 
fathomblue said:
Scott, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking. My best friend is coming by my house in a bit to do some practicing, so maybe he can help me measure bridge length and check for the 90* angle on cue ball contact.

Is there an advantage to a shorter or longer bridge? What would be a "normal range"?

Should my bridge arm be locked? Slight bend?
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Good morning

This is randyg sitting in Mike Page's kitchen....:-)

Longer or shorter than what? Normal for your height is about 8-10 inches? Maybe! Try a 9inch bridge until you attend school, then we will figure it out together. Measure from the back of the cue ball to your vee in your hand.

Have to get to class.

Book in soon.

Thanks
randyg
 
I just had my Dad measure my bridge repeatedly to see what I've been using. I was consistently using one of about 12".

I tried a 9" one, per Randy's suggestion, and that felt really....strange. Like I was extremely close to my work.

I really tried to loosen up my grip and that seemed to smooth me out a bit, but I'm still uncomfortable at the table.

I have the IPAT training set and enjoy the Level 1 drills, but I haven't taken the complete test yet.

I also use the donuts for consistent ball placement during drills.
 
fathomblue...12" is okay, as long as you're holding the cue at the correct corresponding grip position. Once you have that, set the CB on the spot again, and just swing the cue through, with no elbow drop, until your grip/cradle hand stops at your chest. This will allow your body to stop the forward momemtum of the cuestick. Your tip will either be level or pointing down (it may touch the cloth or not, depending on how your arm works with your body). The tip will/should go to the same place on almost every shot. Measure how far this distance is too, with a ruler. This is your natural finish position. Work on a process that includes these three measurements, along with a free-flowing swing of the cuestick, from start to finish. Let the cue do the work. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

fathomblue said:
I just had my Dad measure my bridge repeatedly to see what I've been using. I was consistently using one of about 12".

I tried a 9" one, per Randy's suggestion, and that felt really....strange. Like I was extremely close to my work.

I really tried to loosen up my grip and that seemed to smooth me out a bit, but I'm still uncomfortable at the table.

I have the IPAT training set and enjoy the Level 1 drills, but I haven't taken the complete test yet.

I also use the donuts for consistent ball placement during drills.
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If you don't mind putting any marks on your cue...I've seen more than a few top level players with a mark on their shaft to indicate where your bridge hand should be or a piece of tape on the butt to indicate where your grip hand should start. A semi-finalist at the World Juniors did the former, and he could play a little (4 centuries and 15 other breaks over 70). For me, I just hold the cue towards the back of the wrap with none of my fingers going past on to the butt.

I generally use a 12 inch bridge, but I've been making an effort to cut it down to 8-10 inches as I feel I can be more accurate and generate more speed accurately.
 
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You can also use a rubber band on the grip area of the cue to mark it. Scott Lee also turned me on to the small rubber bands used to hold braided hair.

To the OP I am also 5'6'' and I have a long bridge, of 13 inches. It is just the way I am built and what is comfortable for me.

You need to find what is comfortable for you.
 
Cameron Smith said:
If you don't mind putting any marks on your cue...I've seen more than a few top level players with a mark on their shaft to indicate where your bridge hand should be or a piece of tape on the butt to indicate where your grip hand should start. A semi-finalist at the World Juniors did the former, and he could play a little (4 centuries and 15 other breaks over 70). For me, I just hold the cue towards the back of the wrap with none of my fingers going past on to the butt.

I generally use a 12 inch bridge, but I've been making an effort to cut it down to 8-10 inches as I feel I can be more accurate and generate more speed accurately.
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Cameron, would you mind naming which top level players mark their shafts or butts for for hand placement? I've never seen anyone at top level do it. You say you've seen more than a few. I'd love to ask them why they do it.

Thanks in advance....
 
FranCrimi said:
Cameron, would you mind naming which top level players mark their shafts or butts for for hand placement? I've never seen anyone at top level do it. You say you've seen more than a few. I'd love to ask them why they do it.

Thanks in advance....
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Gerry Watson from Canada used to have a piece of tape on his cue. Noppon Saengkham from Thailand was the snooker player who's shaft was marked. Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

As an aside, when I said top level it wasn't to neccessarily denote World Champions but more players who play at a "top level" so players at a century break standard for example.
 
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Thanks so much for the suggestions and help, everyone! I'm going to experiment with a rubber band to mark the butt for my grip. I'll also see what I can do with a 9"ish bridge, in conjunction with my current 12" comfy one.

As for my bridge arm.......do I need to keep it straight and locked? A slight bend? A more exaggerated bend?

I feel like a career .250 major league hitter that suddenly doesn't feel right at the plate. And with that low of a career average, I'm bound for the minor leagues, if I can't stay above the Mendoza line here (only funny to you diehard baseball fans).

I'll try to practice a bit tonite and come back with some results. Still curious about my bridge arm, tho......

I do have a John Schmidt DVD I could watch again to check out his mechanics.......
 
fathomblue said:
Thanks so much for the suggestions and help, everyone! I'm going to experiment with a rubber band to mark the butt for my grip. I'll also see what I can do with a 9"ish bridge, in conjunction with my current 12" comfy one.

As for my bridge arm.......do I need to keep it straight and locked? A slight bend? A more exaggerated bend?

I feel like a career .250 major league hitter that suddenly doesn't feel right at the plate. And with that low of a career average, I'm bound for the minor leagues, if I can't stay above the Mendoza line here (only funny to you diehard baseball fans).

I'll try to practice a bit tonite and come back with some results. Still curious about my bridge arm, tho......

I do have a John Schmidt DVD I could watch again to check out his mechanics.......
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No exagerated bend. Any of the first three would work, though I tend to favor a relaxed arm. I don't like tension in my body while playing.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Gerry Watson from Canada used to have a piece of tape on his cue. Noppon Saengkham from Thailand was the snooker player who's shaft was marked. Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

As an aside, when I said top level it wasn't to neccessarily denote World Champions but more players who play at a "top level" so players at a century break standard for example.
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I agree --- I wasn't even thinking of world champions when you mentioned top level players. I was thinking more along the lines of a couple of thousand at that level worldwide. I'm not sure that two people would be enough of a reason for me to recommend to someone to mark their cue.

I wish I could talk with those two players extensively to find out what's in their heads about it. Oh well...thanks anyway for the response. Much appreciated.
 
FranCrimi said:
I agree --- I wasn't even thinking of world champions when you mentioned top level players. I was thinking more along the lines of a couple of thousand at that level worldwide. I'm not sure that two people would be enough of a reason for me to recommend to someone to mark their cue.

I wish I could talk with those two players extensively to find out what's in their heads about it. Oh well...thanks anyway for the response. Much appreciated.
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The recommendation was more to do with the OP potentially experimenting with new bridge distances and grip positions. I felt it might be a reasonable excercise to mark both the butt and shaft so you're consistently getting the same bridge length that you're looking for whilst not gripping too far back or forward of 90 degrees. It's a trick I've seen snooker instructors use, though I've never used it myself. But I would be willing to try it with a student or two.
 
Cameron Smith said:
The recommendation was more to do with the OP potentially experimenting with new bridge distances and grip positions. I felt it might be a reasonable excercise to mark both the butt and shaft so you're consistently getting the same bridge length that you're looking for whilst not gripping too far back or forward of 90 degrees. It's a trick I've seen snooker instructors use, though I've never used it myself. But I would be willing to try it with a student or two.
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Sure, I understand. Just wondering how those players are faring with it. Does it create a distraction? What about when a particular shot requires a bridge length adjustment? That can come up a lot, depending on the game. Just thinking out loud. I'm not asking for an answer.
 
I always mark a new shaft when I first get it but I mark the pivot point....

I use back hand english almost exclusively so the pivot point determines my normal bridge length but I may slide along the cue once the angle is established if the shot won't allow for the natural placement....

I feel that using the same bridge length as the pivot point allows for balls to be pocketed even when you have minor horizontal stroking errors....

Once I get used to the new shaft I remove the markings......
 
Francrimi,

Ok, so I am not sure which one of these but either Corey or SVB has his break cue's butt marked. Or had. I've seen it in one of their matches but I cannot recall who....
 
TWO MINOR CAVEATS
I agree with Scott, but would add two minor caveats. One is that you will likely have success by using no more stroke than is needed on any shot. Your standard stroke will suffice for the vast majority of shots, but when you need to strike the cue ball very gently (for example, rolling it just a few inches or less), I teach shortening your stroke accordingly. When I want to roll a ball two inches, my stroke is very short, - an inch or less. When you use this method be sure to move your grip hand forward a bit as well. The 90 degree angle described should be an angle of 90 degrees between the forearm and the cue (at address point), not the forearm and the table as some think. In other words, if you're jacked up over a ball or a rail, 90 degrees to the table will not work. Also, it's probably a good idea not to randomly change the amount of bend at the elbow. Why shoot the same shot with a straight arm one time, and a bent elbow the next? Watch Buddy Hall and you'll see that his arm is straight on almost all shots. Adopting this style keeps the game simple and your memory bank clear of unnecessary changes in elbow position.
 
Donny...Those situations are not SOP shots, and as such do not carry the same instructions. All SPF instructors teach a very abbreviated bridge length, and a very forward grip position (usually front of the wrap area), for these types of XOP shots.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Donny Lutz said:
TWO MINOR CAVEATSwhen you need to strike the cue ball very gently (for example, rolling it just a few inches or less), I teach shortening your stroke accordingly. When I want to roll a ball two inches, my stroke is very short, - an inch or less. When you use this method be sure to move your grip hand forward a bit as well.
Click to expand...
 
molotokas said:
Francrimi,

Ok, so I am not sure which one of these but either Corey or SVB has his break cue's butt marked. Or had. I've seen it in one of their matches but I cannot recall who....
Click to expand...

Yes, I can understand that with a break cue. That would be the same shot over and over. I remember noticing that Earl Strickland always would take one last look at his back hand position before he set for his break shot. I'm not sure if he marked his break cue or not.
 
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