bridge length/level cue/stroke

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evergruven

AzB Silver Member
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so having watched vids of my play, I realized that my cue is sometimes not staying (as) level (as possible)
interestingly, it looks like the culprit (at least in some cases) has something to do with my bridge length
I never really thought of it before, but it seems it's often easier to maintain a level cue with a longer bridge
I know it's recommended to lengthen one's bridge for a big draw shot- kind of makes more sense now

I'm curious about the relationship of bridge length, cue level, and body position re: stroke-
thanks for any thoughts/advice.
 
E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
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Patrick Johnson said:
That suggests that you're not a fixed-elbow stroker when the bridge is longer (or ever)...?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

hey pat, interesting suggestion
I'm pretty sure I would be considered a fixed-elbow stroker, but where does the authority draw the line?
I think my elbow does drop a bit when/after shooting certain shots..I'll check out some vid when I get a chance.

otherwise, I'm thinking about why the cue wouldn't remain level with a fixed elbow, and a few things come to mind:

my wrist seems to naturally rest a bit forward of where I grip the cue with my hand
I generally keep my head/chin fairly to the cue
I like a more forward-facing balance point, but don't have a cue with a bp I *love,* so-
and I notice that when I go for the longer bridge, I grip the cue further back, which feels more secure, and conducive to having a level cue
I've also noticed that with the longer bridge, I'm more likely to want to use a loop bridge
a (significant?) factor might also be that with the longer bridge, I can keep my grip hand and bridge hand closer together- ? not sure about this..

there are (literally) a lot of moving parts here..trying to make sense of them :)
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
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As level as possible to the table or as close to 90 degrees to the forearm as possible, which is usually a different plane than the table plane?

An "always level cue" will come for some more easily (light cue clasp, cue and arm hangs with gravity) but is a little overrated in my opinion.

Post a video and we'll all look--pure elbow/pendulum strokers are quite rare.
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
evergruven said:
so having watched vids of my play, I realized that my cue is sometimes not staying (as) level (as possible)
interestingly, it looks like the culprit (at least in some cases) has something to do with my bridge length
I never really thought of it before, but it seems it's often easier to maintain a level cue with a longer bridge
I know it's recommended to lengthen one's bridge for a big draw shot- kind of makes more sense now

I'm curious about the relationship of bridge length, cue level, and body position re: stroke-
thanks for any thoughts/advice.
Click to expand...
Why are you striving for as level as possible? Where did you get that information?
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Patrick Johnson said:
I strive for "level as possible" because it minimizes masse with off center hits. ...
Click to expand...
That's certainly the orthodox teaching, but maybe there's a better way....

If you go for as level as possible, depending on where the shot is relative to the cushion and other balls, you may have to elevate on some shots and not on others. Maybe elevation will vary from 2 degrees to 6 degrees to cover 95% of your shots. (Just guessing for example numbers that maybe are not too far off.)

Suppose instead you used 6 degrees on all shots as a minimum. That would mean you eliminate that variable from a lot of shots. Yes, you have more swerve from unintended side spin, but on the shots which use sidespin, the compensation for swerve no longer depends on elevation because your elevation is constant.

And maybe this technique will work for strong players but not weak players, like using gearing english to avoid skids.
 
E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
Why are you striving for as level as possible? Where did you get that information?
Click to expand...

hi fran, how about as level as *reasonably* possible ?
I guess more important than the level, is contacting and moving through the cb smoothly, and as intended- ?
I'm not trying to un-reasonably contort my body to accommodate a level cue, that's why I initially said "as possible"
but it intuitively makes sense to strive to keep a level cue, to minimize cue movement, and in turn, massé, like pat said
watching video, I noticed a few times where it looked like my cue was moving vertically unnecessarily
thinking now, it might've been me clutching the butt, instead of letting it hang, which I read was useful- do you agree?

I appreciate the questions/convo tho, it's making me think, and while I'm definitely still finding my way, I'm learning!

BilliardsAbout said:
Post a video and we'll all look--pure elbow/pendulum strokers are quite rare.
Click to expand...

what camera angle would you like and shooting what shots? I'll demonstrate as best as I can ^_^

I was considering posting one anyway, because I also have a little problem moving my elbow horizontally on certain shots..😬

thanks all for the replies-
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
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evergruven said:
hi fran, how about as level as *reasonably* possible ?
I guess more important than the level, is contacting and moving through the cb smoothly, and as intended- ?
I'm not trying to un-reasonably contort my body to accommodate a level cue, that's why I initially said "as possible"
but it intuitively makes sense to strive to keep a level cue, to minimize cue movement, and in turn, massé, like pat said
watching video, I noticed a few times where it looked like my cue was moving vertically unnecessarily
thinking now, it might've been me clutching the butt, instead of letting it hang, which I read was useful- do you agree?

I appreciate the questions/convo tho, it's making me think, and while I'm definitely still finding my way, I'm learning!



what camera angle would you like and shooting what shots? I'll demonstrate as best as I can ^_^

I was considering posting one anyway, because I also have a little problem moving my elbow horizontally on certain shots..😬

thanks all for the replies-
Click to expand...
Well, when you strive for something, it usually entails hard work so you have to be pretty sure that it's the right thing to strive for. So before 'as level as possible' becomes your goal, do a little research --- study top players --- ask around, and make sure it's something worth striving for.
 
BC21

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FranCrimi said:
Why are you striving for as level as possible? Where did you get that information?
Click to expand...

Good point. The cue is almost never level (or even close to level). This is true for most shots, with the exception of when striking high on the cb.

A consistent and accurate stroke delivery through the cb is more important than whether or not the cue looks level on camera. But, of course, shooting with an above-normal elevated cue when not needed could definitely cause problems, like missed shots, unintended english, etc... So if that's what the op is talking about, then yes it should be corrected.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
I strive for "level as possible" because it minimizes masse with off center hits.
Click to expand...
Bob Jewett said:
That's certainly the orthodox teaching, but maybe there's a better way....

If you go for as level as possible, depending on where the shot is relative to the cushion and other balls, you may have to elevate on some shots and not on others. Maybe elevation will vary from 2 degrees to 6 degrees to cover 95% of your shots. (Just guessing for example numbers that maybe are not too far off.)

Suppose instead you used 6 degrees on all shots as a minimum. That would mean you eliminate that variable from a lot of shots. Yes, you have more swerve from unintended side spin, but on the shots which use sidespin, the compensation for swerve no longer depends on elevation because your elevation is constant.

And maybe this technique will work for strong players but not weak players, like using gearing english to avoid skids.
Click to expand...
I suspect that most of us do it the way you describe without realizing it. We learn over time the one most level angle that works for most shots and instinctively settle on it as our definition of "level", only changing the angle when more than "normal" elevation is needed.

In addition to being less work, it also grooves the level-as-possible stance and stroke.

pj
chgo
 
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evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BC21 said:
But, of course, shooting with an above-normal elevated cue when not needed could definitely cause problems, like missed shots, unintended english, etc... So if that's what the op is talking about, then yes it should be corrected.
Click to expand...

hi brian, that is what I was talking about. I said "as level as possible" to suggest that level itself, is most cases, is unreasonable.
 
BC21

BC21

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evergruven said:
hi brian, that is what I was talking about. I said "as level as possible" to suggest that level itself, is most cases, is unreasonable.
Click to expand...

I figured that was what you were talking about. But I've seen players who are elevated on every shot, and I wonder if they can feel or sense that they are too elevated. 🤔
 
E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BC21 said:
I figured that was what you were talking about. But I've seen players who are elevated on every shot, and I wonder if they can feel or sense that they are too elevated. 🤔
Click to expand...

yea, I have enough issues on the pool table already😅
trying to eliminate variables, when I can..
video has helped me see a lot👍
 
skiergd011013

skiergd011013

Well-known member
Interesting new video from jeremy jones. He recommends a 6 to 8" bridge. I recently had a lesson with allison, and she recommended a 10" bridge, but it just feels a little long for me and like things can get out of control. Im going to try jeremys 8" (marked with a little piece of tape on shaft). With an 8" bridge, i have to grip the cue butt right near the back end of the wrap to form a 90 degree elbow/arm. Sound right?
 
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evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
skiergd011013 said:
Interesting new video from jeremy jones. He recommends a 6 to 8" bridge. I recently had a lesson with allison, and she recommended a 10" bridge, but it just feels a little long for me and like things can get out of control. Im going to try jeremys 8" (marked with a little piece of tape on shaft). With an 8" bridge, i have to grip the cue butt right near the back end of the wrap to form a 90 degree elbow/arm. Sound right?
Click to expand...

not an instructor
8-10" is what I've generally seen recommended
but that/wherever you put your hands can be affected by cue balance, especially if you use an open bridge
as you suggest, arm/cue length also has something to do with where your hands want to go
in my experience, we can mostly adapt despite these variables- but it's to get all this stuff locked in, as it all works together
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

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evergruven said:
so having watched vids of my play, I realized that my cue is sometimes not staying (as) level (as possible)
interestingly, it looks like the culprit (at least in some cases) has something to do with my bridge length
I never really thought of it before, but it seems it's often easier to maintain a level cue with a longer bridge
I know it's recommended to lengthen one's bridge for a big draw shot- kind of makes more sense now

I'm curious about the relationship of bridge length, cue level, and body position re: stroke-
thanks for any thoughts/advice.
Click to expand...
Getting back to your OP, if you do take a lengthy backstroke--all the way as far as the ferrule can possibly go--your cue stick will tend to level somewhat before you change direction to the forward stroke. As an aside, this is a good cure for a player who rushes the transition from the backstroke or the forward stroke itself, it's hard to lunge from this far back position and this can help slow and smooth a stroke.
 
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