middleofnowhere
Registered
I don't play poker either but my concept of the game is to fool the other players into losing their money through different methods.
One of the reasons you would travel was for a change no one knows how you play.
Bring Back Hustling Culture
- Thread starter Minnesota Phat
- Start date
One of the reasons you would travel was for a change no one knows how you play.
the OP is more referring to a culture of betting on pool than the classical “hustling” you think of in pool.
I agree and wish it was more common. I am not a big money player and every time I try to lay down (because I feel bad winning every single game against someone playing for fun) it really sucks and makes me feel awkward as hell. I’d suck as a hustler.
The few times I’ve asked people who seem to play well if they wanna play I mostly get a no right away if I don’t mention “play for fun” out the gate. It’s like everyone is on guard against this possible hustler guy. I even automatically turn down games and then accept a second later. Don’t know why.
To Minnesota phats - buuuu-RO...use the Return button judiciously when writing such a large post
. I read the whole thing but I almost didn’t when I saw the first few hundred words had no paragraphical structure.
I agree and wish it was more common. I am not a big money player and every time I try to lay down (because I feel bad winning every single game against someone playing for fun) it really sucks and makes me feel awkward as hell. I’d suck as a hustler.
The few times I’ve asked people who seem to play well if they wanna play I mostly get a no right away if I don’t mention “play for fun” out the gate. It’s like everyone is on guard against this possible hustler guy. I even automatically turn down games and then accept a second later. Don’t know why.
To Minnesota phats - buuuu-RO...use the Return button judiciously when writing such a large post
. I read the whole thing but I almost didn’t when I saw the first few hundred words had no paragraphical structure.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
"Hustling" is different to the initiated -- just as we know the difference between "gambling" and "stealing".
And Phats, first thing I learned in a pool hall was to keep my mouth shut. The second/third were keep your eyes/ears open. You will learn a lot.
And Phats, first thing I learned in a pool hall was to keep my mouth shut. The second/third were keep your eyes/ears open. You will learn a lot.
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How many of you folks on here have played this game to eat? Ever been in a spot where getting the $$ was the difference in eating/going hungry or going to a motel vs. sleeping in your car?? If not you have zero frame of reference when it comes to hustling. I can't believe i'm agreeing with cocoloco but he's 100% right, hustlers often get games with those that think they're doing the hustling. I've been on both sides, the trapper and the trapee. If someone laid it down good and got me i wasn't mad, i was impressed and tried to learn their schtick/moves. Part of the game. Its fading away and its too bad imo. Pool is losing its color/excitement in a lot of ways. Too many clinical, robotic players for me.
Stable employment would ensure a full stomach and a place to lay your head at night. The hustling image and lifestyle has done more harm than good to the game and I'm glad to see it fading away.
middleofnowhere
Registered
Doesn't your avatar contradict that sentiment? In fact isn't the live by your wits type of culture of the pool hustler what people admire the most and find so interesting? Pool as a sport could not be more boring if it tried. Nobody care about pool. It's culture is what they find interesting.
We are also talking about different eras. what we are discussing/debating doesn't actually exist anymore.
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Just because I'm a fan of the film and the stellar, star studded performances, doesn't mean I'm an advocate of the lifestyle.
It's the image of the degenerate gambler targeting unknowing marks is what has crippled pool for decades. That image has done way more harm than good when it comes to elevating professional pool and bringing it to the mainstream. Over the last decade or so, pool has taken steps to make this image a thing of the past, mostly through the growth and success of the sport abroad and the advent of streaming which has afforded more coverage of the professional game than ever. Hustling will probable never go away but it certainly doesn't and shouldn't be the poster child for the image of the game.
I pretty much gave up pool the last 5 months and I own a room. Barely hit a ball except for under 10 racks on my mancave table with my 15 year old who's finally shown a glimpse of interest.
There's no good action for what I like to play for. Gotta be 100 to 500 a set.
I was spoiled to start 25 years ago when all the serious players locally would bet at least 20 a set. Sometimes a few hundred.
I had great action from a couple guys the last 10 years and it pretty much ruined me for anything else. That and the tournament scene in upstate NY is dead because league has taken over and the old timers I used to play are older or gone.
There's very few new guys I'd consider serious players. Plus they gotta have 3 things. GAME, HEART and BANKROLL. I'll give enough weight for anybody to win, but I'm not playing with my money and their IOUs.
You want to see action,go to SBE or DCC. Go soon because real action there is disappearing as well. There's a lot of dog and pony shows there, just trying to take a few hundred off the rail. I go, bet my own and play 100 to 300 a set for 10 hours or more. If I can't beat someone, I pay off and take whoever is next. I've played well enough to make that wide open style work, because I also know who is a champion or can tell by their play.
Last SBE I played one player 500 to 1000 a set 10 to 14 hours a day for 3 days, giving the 8. By the end I was up 5500. I really think I would have been nearly as happy just to have great action. It's that rare, even there. Mostly you see teams of guys pooling their money and playing gaff games. I was thinking of going to SBE, 6 months cold and just letting it fly. The seniors 50 plus tourney is full, if it weren't I'd go Friday morning til I couldn't take it.
There's no good action for what I like to play for. Gotta be 100 to 500 a set.
I was spoiled to start 25 years ago when all the serious players locally would bet at least 20 a set. Sometimes a few hundred.
I had great action from a couple guys the last 10 years and it pretty much ruined me for anything else. That and the tournament scene in upstate NY is dead because league has taken over and the old timers I used to play are older or gone.
There's very few new guys I'd consider serious players. Plus they gotta have 3 things. GAME, HEART and BANKROLL. I'll give enough weight for anybody to win, but I'm not playing with my money and their IOUs.
You want to see action,go to SBE or DCC. Go soon because real action there is disappearing as well. There's a lot of dog and pony shows there, just trying to take a few hundred off the rail. I go, bet my own and play 100 to 300 a set for 10 hours or more. If I can't beat someone, I pay off and take whoever is next. I've played well enough to make that wide open style work, because I also know who is a champion or can tell by their play.
Last SBE I played one player 500 to 1000 a set 10 to 14 hours a day for 3 days, giving the 8. By the end I was up 5500. I really think I would have been nearly as happy just to have great action. It's that rare, even there. Mostly you see teams of guys pooling their money and playing gaff games. I was thinking of going to SBE, 6 months cold and just letting it fly. The seniors 50 plus tourney is full, if it weren't I'd go Friday morning til I couldn't take it.
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In the last 60yrs pool has been saved not once but twice by movies about the so-called 'dark side' of pool. Gambling/hustling will always be part of it. If you want to see gambling/hustling in action take up golf. USGA loves to portray golf as this lily white game where in reality there is more action at America's country clubs then all the poolhalls combined. I know a guy that lived in Calif/Az area for yrs and never had a real job other than matching up at golf. Did real well at it for 20+yrs. He could play scratch or 20hdcp speed on demand. Ten-speed gin player too so he got 'em on and off the course.
Hustling culture may be interesting, and I've always had a fascination for it in the written form or on tv.. However, it's not quite as positive to experience first hand, nor is it anything I'd want to aspire to. People talking about fleecing people they call "friends", pretending to have some sort of handicap, pretending to be stupid, drunk etc... I don't get why that is anything to admire. Not every skill is worth having, no matter how impressive it might be.
As a room owner, you'd be crazy not to chase away all the hustlers. They are stealing the food right out of your customers mouths, and by extension your mouth. Short term, the players have less to spend because the hustler took it all and long term they get chased away by either embarrasment or aggressive woofing. The hustler spends nothing. All he does is take.
Even in my country, where gambling isn't such a huge thing, we have "hustlers". Hustlers who shark, cheat and act like assholes. Anything to get the W. Those guys are a curse on any poolroom. If they dropped dead, the world would be a better place! Some people think these people are the greatest. They're about as great as mosquitoes. I don't care how good a mosquito is at it's job. It's still a nuisance on everyone.
As a room owner, you'd be crazy not to chase away all the hustlers. They are stealing the food right out of your customers mouths, and by extension your mouth. Short term, the players have less to spend because the hustler took it all and long term they get chased away by either embarrasment or aggressive woofing. The hustler spends nothing. All he does is take.
Even in my country, where gambling isn't such a huge thing, we have "hustlers". Hustlers who shark, cheat and act like assholes. Anything to get the W. Those guys are a curse on any poolroom. If they dropped dead, the world would be a better place! Some people think these people are the greatest. They're about as great as mosquitoes. I don't care how good a mosquito is at it's job. It's still a nuisance on everyone.
Another post looking for thr definition of a nit....bingo.
Nobody going to put a gun to your head to make you bet. Plenty of people match up in a civil manner. I will agree life is too short to play assholes.
While the film industry has been responsible for "booms" in pool's popularity amongst the general public, it hasn't done pool any favors in terms of the professional side of the sport looking to attract mainstream sponsorship with real money to elevate the game. Hence, my statement the "hustler" image has done more harm than good.
There's a difference between faithfully matching up with something on the line ($$$) vs. one party deceiving the other effectively hiding their skillset which would otherwise make the matchup unfair. In these scenarios, the "mark" would most likely not matchup with the "hustler" if the hustler's true speed was disclosed.
Reminds me of some of the best advice anyone ever shared with me. “All the real business is conducted on the gold course.”
middleofnowhere
Registered
What evidence do you have to back up that statement? It seems to me pools biggest booms has been after the Hustler and Color of Money. About a guy who sells fake whiskey, and hustles pool with a segregate. Lying throughout the movie is almost the plot. Remember how Vincents girl friend first met him? And forget about the Hustler, there is not a character in the movie with and redeeming qualities.
Remember the TV series of old timers players? The theme song was from The Sting, a movie about con men. I think they knew what the public wanted to see. Nothing has been done to change the image or bring the game into the mainstream. You could not find one person in 10,000 who could even tell you what the Mosconi Cup is. People don't care about pool and even less about it's image. Pool is a small subculture sport watched by a small fan base.
I respect your opinion and believe you are sincere. However, image has little to do with pool not being more popular then it is.
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See Post #52.
IMO, image has everything to do with pool's lack of an established, lucrative professional organization because the image is what has prevented mainstream money being invested in pool. If there's no money, it cannot grow. The players got a shot with the Camel Pro Tour with events regularly broadcast on ESPN and Fox Sports. Had they not foolishly shunned ESPN by not signing a contract every other athlete portrayed on ESPN signs, we could very well see professional pool more mainstream evolving with financial backing from companies not in the tobacco/alcohol space similar to what NASCAR has accomplished.
Golf suffered a very poor image a little over 100 years ago that was very similar to pool. The serious players recognized they needed to organize the sport and change the perception. As such, golf grew to the billion dollar industry it is today. Guess the golfers were smarter than pool players.
This is true in my business, and I hate it lol. Golf doesn’t interest me at all for some reason. Everyone I know that’s a serious pool player tells me I would love it.
I’ve played one time for a work thing and I was horrendous but I did have a little fun. I hit the golf ball about 70% of the time I swung at it which they all told me was good for never swinging a club before but the ball rarely went anywhere.
I think it’s just that I realize how much time and effort it will take to get competent and I’m not truly interested in it, I’d rather spend that time on my pool game. But all promotions come on the golf course. New client relationship building and all that. My boss wants all the project managers to be good at golf and I’m like ...
Why can’t it be pool? It’s a better game and I’m good at it damnit! Lol
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
Without real pool halls (not bar boxes) and gambling, pool holds little interest for me. Tournaments don't make pool. Tournaments are what pool has become with real pool halls and gambling disappearing.
Pretty sure I'm right there with you.
middleofnowhere
Registered
The Camel stops played to completely empty venues. I played in one and they were moving the people around so it would look like they had an audience on camara. Most of which were the tournament players themselves. I would suspect the TV ratings were bad as well.
The image of pool effects the pool rooms. I once had a church picket me. Cities actually pass laws to prevent a pool room from opening so in that respect I agree pool suffers due to image.
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