I have read quite a few of your lame posts-you should have gambled at pool and learned something. Just sayin.
Bring Back Hustling Culture
- Thread starter Minnesota Phat
- Start date
dquarasr
Registered
To the general population of at least this country (USA), pool had and likely still has a perception problem as being seedy and dangerous.
In two sentences Fatboy succinctly explains why.
I did some bad things in pool, robbing people instead of working. Back when a B player could get action. I got better but the action dried up.
I did some bad stuff in telemarketing in 93-96 that really bothers me.
Pools image will be tarnished for a very long time. I didn’t do anything to make it better
Keeping it real
Fatboy <———does good deeds these days-feels better as well
Minnesota Phat
Active member
I don't know anyone who has never done a bad thing. At least you're acknowledging it, and trying to make up for it by doing good deeds. The good deeds part is pretty cool.
In my life experiences, I've noticed that people who admit that they've done some bad things in their lives are more trustworthy than people who try to convince me that they're perfect angels.
In Dostoevsky's novel "Crime and Punishment" the main character observes that some fellow prisoners who had committed only minor offenses felt very guilty about what they had done, while some fellow prisoners who had committed heinous crimes were completely unrepentant, and had no regrets, other than being caught. To me, that describes the difference between a decent human being and a sociopath.
WillieRackam
Member
I obviously don't check mine everyday either and don't always have the time to respond in my own inimitable style.
I have been collecting info [and "confirming" the veracity of stuff I already knew from l-o-n-g ago] before getting back to you on the Hustling Culture thread. I'm ready to do so, but have already run out of time this morning, so I try even HARDER to finally buckle down and do it.
I am about to place an order for a handful of Sneaky Pete's to replenish my stock. I'm going to give one away to a very nice young fellow from Mexico who is here to work and send remittances to his brother and his fiancee [who are using the money to build a house for he and his lovely lady]. He showed me pics of the construction site. It is a concrete block structure, but not far enough along to get a sense of the "style or finish" they're after. He didn't want to spend $150 for a $300 cue, and ...
I didn't want to watch him struggle with the P.O.S. bar cues in the dive bar where he plays one tourney per week, they are pathetic.
The Sneaky Pete's I get are high quality playing cues. Most of the more established production cue makers quit offering sneaky pete's years ago because the gross profit % and the gross sales price are low end. No self-respecting capitalist wants to waste their time on such petty endeavors ... the same "thinking" is what makes the building of "affordable housing" practically unheard of here in the US of A. The only "action" in the affordable housing game in late 20th and 21st Century america [sic] is "tax-advantaged".
I'm going to "arrange" for him to win a "raffle" for the cue. My money will pay for the cue the "raffle" proceeds will be distributed along with the payout to the top finishers in the following week's tournament. Like many young men from impoverished countries, he doesn't want handouts, he wants to earn his own way through life. He's earned it in my book, with his sunny disposition and his "sportsmanship".
Take care,
Willie
Remittances from the United States - Wikipedia
WillieRackam
Member
I have a "call center" experience that you will appreciate ...
This quicky reply is just a "tickler/reminder" to come back and tell the tale.
Minnesota Phat
Active member
That's a pretty sweet hustle all around - good "altruistic hard worker" story, and even a fake raffle... for a Sneaky Pete, no less.
Everybody's hustlin'
Must be nice to be so righteous. Its been my experience that nearly everyone who's been hustled at pool thought they were doing the hustling. We're not in church and the entire objective is to get the money. Its not playing for funsies or some pos trophy. I've been on both ends of the deal and its just part of playing for $$. Always want the advantage. Matching-up even will keep you busted. I've seen multiple HOF'rs that could lay it down so good you'd think they were pure hacks. I'm talking about players who are high on the 'pool altar' here on AZ. Nothing 'low life' about it.
I miss call centers.
This is where we differ on a fundamental level:: I am in it for the fun. No more, no less.
Nor to a give a flip about some plastic trophy.
You sound like Tony Soprano, and would likely be "just as much fun" to play with.
I'm no expert but my perception is people who get hustled fall into two categories.
1 - people who think they are stealing.
2 - people with so much easily made cash that they don't care if they lose.
People on substance are another category.
This, I think we can all agree, is, on the basis of fact, an existing post in this thread.
Minnesota Phat
Active member
It could do with some upgrades, most definitely.
The funny thing is that I just like the game - money is the root of all evils, but then again, billiards equipment is expensive, and in an age of fake ego and cringe-worthy flexes, "put your money where your mouth is" has a certain appeal.
Minnesota Phat
Active member
I'm not sure this comment will even be seen by anyone, but I had an interesting learning experience the other day that I would describe as the uglier side of "hustling."
I had previously discovered a weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament where lower-level players were given big advantages. In my first set against one of the highest-ranked players, I got to break every time, and I only had to pocket the 7, 8, or 9 to win. Because of this huge advantage, I almost won my first set.
So last Wednesday I entered this tournament again, but this time the "handicap" was changed to having to win fewer games - I'd have to win three games, and my vastly superior opponent would have to win five games. I didn't know about this rule change until after I started my first match, and as soon as I found out about it, I knew the tournament was an exercise in futility - it felt pointless to even play it out. I wish it had been "opponent racks," because then at least I would have had some involvement in the match, instead of just sitting and watching my opponents run the table.
It wasn't an expensive entry fee, and I think the change was made in order to be able to Fargo Rate the match, and to try to prevent sandbagging, so I understand why the change was made, but I felt cheated.
I was pretty pissed off about it, so I left the billiards hall in a sour mood, and I went to a bar where I challenged a few local league players to play for money, then went back to the bar box and started practicing with a house cue. One guy came back and took me up on the challenge, insisting we play for 20, rather than the 10 I suggested. He won the first game, and I won the second game, and he walked off pretty fast when I asked if he wanted to play a third game "just for fun."
For me, losing $40 at the bar would have felt less bad than losing a $15-entry tournament where the rules were changed from the previous week's rules. It didn't help that the second guy I played in that tournament scratched on the 9 ball, giving me a "win" for Fargo purposes that I definitely didn't want, and didn't earn. My opponent probably wasn't very focused on that last shot, since I was obviously completely outclassed - heck, maybe he scratched on purpose.
Mind you, I played a non-handicapped 9-ball tournament a couple days previously, and I was OK with losing that one, because I knew what to expect, and everything was on the up-and-up.
I find the new-school hustles less honest and more obnoxious than the old-school hustles. The new hustles are arguably not even intentional, and they are glossed over with all sorts of justifications/excuses, but they leave a more sour taste in my mouth than I'd get from just losing a few bucks to an old-school hustler or gunner.
Meanwhile, talk about chasing all the fish away! If you're looking to alienate less-skilled players, just hold a handicapped tournament regularly with one set of rules that gives the fish a chance, and then move the goalposts towards the advantage of the sharks. I was recommending less-skilled players to that tournament, but now I'll warn everyone that it's essentially a scam, and the new "handicap," will just make them feel worse about themselves when they inevitably lose - LOL.
I had previously discovered a weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament where lower-level players were given big advantages. In my first set against one of the highest-ranked players, I got to break every time, and I only had to pocket the 7, 8, or 9 to win. Because of this huge advantage, I almost won my first set.
So last Wednesday I entered this tournament again, but this time the "handicap" was changed to having to win fewer games - I'd have to win three games, and my vastly superior opponent would have to win five games. I didn't know about this rule change until after I started my first match, and as soon as I found out about it, I knew the tournament was an exercise in futility - it felt pointless to even play it out. I wish it had been "opponent racks," because then at least I would have had some involvement in the match, instead of just sitting and watching my opponents run the table.
It wasn't an expensive entry fee, and I think the change was made in order to be able to Fargo Rate the match, and to try to prevent sandbagging, so I understand why the change was made, but I felt cheated.
I was pretty pissed off about it, so I left the billiards hall in a sour mood, and I went to a bar where I challenged a few local league players to play for money, then went back to the bar box and started practicing with a house cue. One guy came back and took me up on the challenge, insisting we play for 20, rather than the 10 I suggested. He won the first game, and I won the second game, and he walked off pretty fast when I asked if he wanted to play a third game "just for fun."
For me, losing $40 at the bar would have felt less bad than losing a $15-entry tournament where the rules were changed from the previous week's rules. It didn't help that the second guy I played in that tournament scratched on the 9 ball, giving me a "win" for Fargo purposes that I definitely didn't want, and didn't earn. My opponent probably wasn't very focused on that last shot, since I was obviously completely outclassed - heck, maybe he scratched on purpose.
Mind you, I played a non-handicapped 9-ball tournament a couple days previously, and I was OK with losing that one, because I knew what to expect, and everything was on the up-and-up.
I find the new-school hustles less honest and more obnoxious than the old-school hustles. The new hustles are arguably not even intentional, and they are glossed over with all sorts of justifications/excuses, but they leave a more sour taste in my mouth than I'd get from just losing a few bucks to an old-school hustler or gunner.
Meanwhile, talk about chasing all the fish away! If you're looking to alienate less-skilled players, just hold a handicapped tournament regularly with one set of rules that gives the fish a chance, and then move the goalposts towards the advantage of the sharks. I was recommending less-skilled players to that tournament, but now I'll warn everyone that it's essentially a scam, and the new "handicap," will just make them feel worse about themselves when they inevitably lose - LOL.
The glamorization of hustling versus the reality is similar to that of the mafia. The movies give it a veneer of class and humor. In the real world, most people would be shocked by the depravity of it.
Even when talking about above-the-table money games, there's still the problem of gambling addiction. Too many families have been devastated because of gambling addiction. It's not a problem if it's budgeted money for recreation, but most people wouldn't trust that gambling is being done with that kind of discipline. It's regarded as degenerate. As with most things, where there's smoke there's fire.
Even when talking about above-the-table money games, there's still the problem of gambling addiction. Too many families have been devastated because of gambling addiction. It's not a problem if it's budgeted money for recreation, but most people wouldn't trust that gambling is being done with that kind of discipline. It's regarded as degenerate. As with most things, where there's smoke there's fire.
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Minnesota Phat
Active member
I can see where you're coming from - my thought is to create a situation where there is structure and etiquette that could minimize the more sordid aspects of hustling.
For me, I sometimes put small amounts of money on games out of politeness, or to keep the game going. The other day I was playing a guy, and I was playing badly, and I could see he was losing interest. I offered to put a few bucks down, and that renewed his interest in the game, and it made the game(s) a little more fun without costing me any more than I'd spend on entertainment anyway.
I did spend a bit more than I wanted on one occasion, but that was entirely my fault - I was a bit too amped-up and full of myself, so after losing a couple sets, I offered a bigger bet than I should have offered. It was still "peanuts," but enough that I felt a little burned - I chalk it up as a learning experience - one that I probably needed. In any case, it was far more interesting than chasing the dragon of pull-tabs, lottery tickets, or slot machines.
At one billiards hall where I've become something of a regular, I kept asking this one guy if he wanted to play, and he finally said, "This is how it works:" and explained the minimum stakes that would peak his interest in playing me. I didn't feel manipulated or anything - it makes sense to me that some players prefer to have a little riding on the game to "make things interesting." I don't even see it as gambling, really.
I'm sorry to hear about the gambling issues in your family - addiction issues are awful, and if gambling disappeared tomorrow, that would be fine by me. However, in the real world that we live in, I don't think that a gambler is going to go off the deep end just because betting on billiards becomes normalized again - there are so many options to gamble already that I just don't think it would change anything, except that it might attract a bit more interest from casual players and onlookers.
Sorry, I wasn't talking about my family. I edited my post to clarify that.
I'm not concerned about people putting a little money on a game to make it interesting, as long as it's reasonable use of recreational money.