Buddy Hall position shot

[Hal]

I saw Buddy Hall shoot this the other day on BCN. He said about 5 times, "This is a spin shot. This is not a draw shot." I was thinking to myself that it didn't look that difficult. I have to admit that I can't make it. I can get past the side pocket, but I can't get the cue ball to come "long" up the table.

Both balls are one ball width off the rail.

 

[Deadon]

Hi Hal;

What is your question about the shot?

Mike

 

[Nostroke]

I saw Buddy Hall shoot this the other day on BCN. He said about 5 times, "This is a spin shot. This is not a draw shot." I was thinking to myself that it didn't look that difficult. I have to admit that I can't make it. I can get past the side pocket, but I can't get the cue ball to come "long" up the table.

Both balls are one ball width off the rail.

Are you trying to do it with no draw-taking Buddy literally?

 

[frankncali]

I have been around some good players when they are talking about these type shots. Its something that has always stuck with me.

With just left I dont think you can come back that far. Even though
some of the players told me they just used the outside english to accomplish this I observed them hitting a little draw.
One finally told me that you dont try and draw the ball to the wanted position but rather try and draw the ball into the cushion and then the english will bring it back.
I think having a really good stroke helps.

 

[lewdo26]

Buddy elevates on that shot to make sure the cueball isn't rolling uptable at contact. Tough cookie.

 

[Nostroke]

Buddy elevates on that shot to make sure the cueball isn't rolling uptable at contact. Tough cookie.

Yeah exactly- There may not be any 'draw' when the CB arrives but it has to start with some so it's really about semantics and one's idea of what draw is as opposed to someone else's.

 

[Rickw]

I took lessons from Buddy and I can tell you that if he said there's no draw, he meant that there is no draw. That man knows exactly where the tip of his cue is on the cb every time he shoots.

I watched him shoot stroke shots and he's unbelievable! He strokes the ball effortlessly and can make the cb do things like the shot you pictured without moving anything but his shooting arm. When he shoots a shot like that, he looks like he's shooting a 4 inch hanger.

Trust me, if he says he didn't use draw, he didn't use draw.

 

[merylane]

Yeah exactly- There may not be any 'draw' when the CB arrives but it has to start with some so it's really about semantics and one's idea of what draw is as opposed to someone else's.

buddy freezes the cue ball on the rail and drills that shot, watched him shoot a couple doz. last weekend.

 

[Nostroke]

I took lessons from Buddy and I can tell you that if he said there's no draw, he meant that there is no draw. That man knows exactly where the tip of his cue is on the cb every time he shoots.

I watched him shoot stroke shots and he's unbelievable! He strokes the ball effortlessly and can make the cb do things like the shot you pictured without moving anything but his shooting arm. When he shoots a shot like that, he looks like he's shooting a 4 inch hanger.

Trust me, if he says he didn't use draw, he didn't use draw.

OK so Buddy's definition of draw is any ball struck below center, not a CB ball arriving at the object ball with backspin. If so we can all talk about the same thing.

Anyway, Im a low 'C' player and the shot looks pretty much like a hanger to me (striking below center of course).

I once saw Buddy cut a ball on the center of the short rail, near razor thin, from the about 2 diamonds away, and stop the CB short of the side pocket. I still dont know how he did that one.

One more thing-Buddy according to the poster said
"This is a spin shot. This is not a draw shot." Im not sure that precludes a contact a smidgen below center.

 

[It's George Old Owner]

wow i can just imagine this on the actual pool tbl..his stroke must be superb!

 

[Rickw]

wow i can just imagine this on the actual pool tbl..his stroke must be superb!

He was showing me a shot that he said everyone else, including the pros, said was impossible and he did it. He's so fluid and powerful without looking like he's shooting hard at all. You see his stroke and you still don't believe it.

 

[5ballcharlie]

I saw Buddy Hall shoot this the other day on BCN. He said about 5 times, "This is a spin shot. This is not a draw shot." I was thinking to myself that it didn't look that difficult. I have to admit that I can't make it. I can get past the side pocket, but I can't get the cue ball to come "long" up the table.

Both balls are one ball width off the rail.

Hey Hal, on buddy hall position play tape he says the same thing about this shot.... To execute it you must elevate your cue..

 

[Craig Fales]

To elevate your cue you would put draw on the ball...just like a jump shot...
________

 

[tedkaufman]

It's a stun shot with left english. Buddy is right--no draw. By no draw, he means no backspin. To play it, play it the way you'd hit that distance shot to make a stop shot, but with left spin added to bring the cue ball uptable off the rail.

 

[It's George Old Owner]

He was showing me a shot that he said everyone else, including the pros, said was impossible and he did it. He's so fluid and powerful without looking like he's shooting hard at all. You see his stroke and you still don't believe it.

i can just imagine if i were there to c it for myself..i'd instantly jaw drop!

 

[The Grinder]

I think that speed is a big factor

I think that on a shot lke this the tendancy is to hit it to hard and not give the spin a chance to bring the ball back down table. IMHO

 

[lewdo26]

Yep. Buddy Hall is right up there with Mizerak and Ronnie O'Sullivan in the "perfect stroke" category of players.

 

[lewdo26]

I think that on a shot lke this the tendancy is to hit it to hard and not give the spin a chance to bring the ball back down table. IMHO

Very good. I think that's exactly the way Buddy shoots it. Just enough speed to stun it to the rail and then the spin does the rest. If you pound it I think it'd come way short.

 

[Hal]

Yeah I know he elevated. I watched him do it. He used a closed bridge from the rail. That in itself gives you plenty of elevation. I'm also using extreme bottom left english. As much as I can possibly put on the cue ball. Like 20 tips (according to some of you ).

I didn't really have a question. I was just saying that it's a tough shot. I've since come close a time or two, but I still can't get the cue ball to come up table like he did. His cue ball hit the rail at about the same spot where he shot it. Mine hits way before that. Like this:

 

[Deadon]

Yeah exactly- There may not be any 'draw' when the CB arrives but it has to start with some so it's really about semantics and one's idea of what draw is as opposed to someone else's.

Its exactly what he means. What you start with isn't important, its what you end up with. Although originally cued low, depending on the cloth condition, the friction from the cloth takes the backspin off the Q ball before it arrives. If done correctly, when the Q ball arrives at the object ball it has no forward and little, if any backspin. The Q ball leaves the OB at the natural angle. The natural angle of deflection is back up the table. The english and the stun speed lengthen it to bring it to the corner. Frozen on the rail is a different shot.