Buddy Hall "Tuck & Roll"

ENGLISH! said:
And if one only follows common advice one will always be common.

I would guess that part of your problem is that your brain keeps you from trying things that might well make you a better player.

I've said it before that I am glad that I started playing the game several years before my first physics class.

I know what I can do with swiping that I can not do with normal BHE but we're not talking the same swiping. What you think swiping is is not what I & a few others here on AZB know what swiping really is.

Give it some thought & try to realize that these techniques were not all handed down from old players that would not divulge anything to anyone that did not KNOW what they were talking about.

Many of these techniques were gravitated to by individuals that were absorbed in the game & getting better & even absorbed in being the best that they could be & even absorbed with the goal of becoming the actual best.

Your the one that is not doing others any good other than keeping them at APA 3 level so there can be more APA teams.

Good Evening Patrick.
Click to expand...
Quoted for my own enjoyment.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
Colin Colenso said:
I agree with this Chuck, particularly when it's used on firm shots. The swipe movement exaggerates swerve a little more I believe on softer shots using tuck and roll swiping to apply english.

I came across it in the first 9-ball instructional video I ever saw, and I believe it was Jim Rempe with a US woman's champ. He was big on the tuck and roll.

It's interesting to note that I've observed a lot of the top snooker pros using it in the last year or so, particularly since I got a big screen and can see more clearly. They rarely do it to the same extent, more so a touch of it, and more often with outside english as a way to apply gearing.

Judd Trump, possibly the most offensive potter in the game's history, uses it more than any other I have noticed.

It is actually quite controllable at firm speeds provided the bridge length is suitable.

Note: When I shoot it, I try to stay in line until about half way through the forward stroke, then swipe at the last minute. That's what seems to work for me and reduces the tendency to hit too much CCB offset, particularly on OE shots.

Colin
Click to expand...
Blasphemy Colin. How dare you betray your English roots and say that a snooker player does anything other than stroke straight through with perfect Davis cueing. :-)

That Judd Trump guy can't possibly be any good at snooker with that sort of form.......

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
ENGLISH! said:
Why don't you tell that to what were & still are some of the best players in the world.

Some athletes can do things that others can not, especially book worms.

Perhaps you should look up the definition of athlete & come to the realization that while pool may be considered a game vs a sport by some, it is not a board game.

You may be able to explain the physics regarding a curve ball in baseball (& then again, maybe not) BUT... can you throw one? AND better yet, do you know the technique to assist in hitting one?

One can go to school to be a plumber, graduate & then get a job & not know any of the 'tricks of the trade' until the 'mechanics' show them to them.

You're like that line in that song, 'you're still playing with paper back dolls, come back 'baby'... when grow up.'.

Have a Great Day, Patrick & enjoy your Level 3 or 4 associations.
Click to expand...
Another post worth saving. This is some high level art of war shit right here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
JB Cases said:
Blasphemy Colin. How dare you betray your English roots and say that a snooker player does anything other than stroke straight through with perfect Davis cueing. :-)

That Judd Trump guy can't possibly be any good at snooker with that sort of form.......

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

For all his great shots, trump is prone to missing - more often than not, the exact shot colin is describing.

If it works for him fine, but best practice it ain't.

Talking of snooker, still waiting...
 
Ron Swanson said:
For all his great shots, trump is prone to missing - more often than not, the exact shot colin is describing.

If it works for him fine, but best practice it ain't.

Talking of snooker, still waiting...
Click to expand...
Busy sorry. Will get to it in my own time. You can pave the way and start your own thread there if you like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
T&r

Old-school name for what we now call BHE. I believe Buddy picked it up from the "Bear", Eddie Taylor, when he was down in Shreveport. a LOT of old road-players used this term. Nothin' new out there folks, just re-packaging.
 
I play on a Snooker Table quite often & I use some aiming techniques, along with Feel, from time to time... it's just part of playing. I think like this... I only have one shot to continue my inning... I better make the ball. With this frame of mind, I use anything & everything I can, to insure the Pot.
 
Ron Swanson said:
Sure. Should i call it 'why are aiming system types afraid of the snooker world?'

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Not afraid at all. Just see no point in going to a snooker forum to discuss a game I haven't played more than a handful of times in the past 20 years.

Kind of like you here talking about a game you don't play.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
JB Cases said:
Not afraid at all. Just see no point in going to a snooker forum to discuss a game I haven't played more than a handful of times in the past 20 years.

Kind of like you here talking about a game you don't play.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Lol.

You should call my bluff some time.
 
also in the Buddy video

every shot he sets up is edge to edge with the cue ball and object ball
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I notice you don't start whining until you're the one corrected.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

As I've said several times here on AZB.

An athlete knows when 'the science' is wrong or is not applicable to the situation as 'science' is applying it.

Math is a man made 'science' used to explain the real true sciences.

Science can be used to explain what an athlete does but sometimes is lacking when there has not been enough scientific study of the subject at hand.

You did not correct me at all. You made an incorrect statement because you don't know what two athletes are talking about that science has not yet studied sufficiently to make any definitive statement. When that is the case an intelligent individual would believe what the athlete is saying until science either confirms or disproves it.
 
The Renfro said:
Consider the contact time where the tip compresses and rebounds.. At firm speeds where contact times are getting close to equal at 1ms maybe there would be no discernible increase but on softer shots where the cue is staying in contact for longer periods and over greater distances the cueballs reaction will be different if the swerve/tuck and roll carry the tip outside of what would have been permissible misscue limits for a static stroke... At least that is what I see happening when I am trying to load the ball up with spin.. When I see lots of professionals evolving to utilize it I think there is way more merit than to toss it aside without serious testing and since we have no real testing labs to replicate the stroke required it will be up to the payers to try it and see if it's something they need to put in their toolkit...
Click to expand...

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:
 
Colin Colenso said:
I'm not familiar with a shot where the cue clears the bridge before or during impacting the CB. What happens after that is a different topic.

My definition of swiping is changing the cue line during the forward stroke.

This contrasts with how I usually execute the BHE pivot, which is to change the cue line prior to the backswing, delivering the cue back and forth in a straight motion.

One can also turn via the wrist or back arm at the back of the stroke and deliver the cue in a straight line off center. This appears like a swipe, but isn't really.

A swipe has some degree of arc, which affects the direction of the CB to some degree. My tests indicate that the direction change is not very significant on firm shots, but re-directs the CB significantly on slower shots.

A swipe can also include a bridge movement. This I don't recommend and it no longer becomes BHE if done this way. Though some players do get quite apt at it.

Is there any part of that you'd disagree with or rephrase?

Colin
Click to expand...

Hi Colin.

The bridge hand can move or stay still. It's not the bridge hand hitting the ball. It's the tip. It's about increasing the lateral force vector relative to the forward force vector. When the cue leaves the bridge or the bridge goes laterally along with the cue that is what is accomplished.

It's not a shot one goes around shooting all of the time but instead only when one 'feels' that it's the best way to put the spin on the ball for that particular shot.

Cheers.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Could you hit enter on occasion Chris... my eyes ain't so good :smile:

I hope I don't miss your point/s, but my thought on the difference between firm and slow is biomechanical. That it's physically difficult to move the back hand sideways anywhere near close to the speed that we can move the hand forward.

But on a slow shot, the sideways movement of the back arm can contribute a higher ratio of side to forward movement.

In effect, it's changing the direction of movement of the tip at contact, hence the direction in which force is applied.

If I move a cue forward very slowly, I can actually be moving the tip at 45 degrees to the shot line. Almost 90 degrees if I just swipe from the side with no forward movement.

Hope that makes sense.

Colin
Click to expand...

That's what I just posted but you said it better.
 
ceebee said:
I play on a Snooker Table quite often & I use some aiming techniques, along with Feel, from time to time... it's just part of playing. I think like this... I only have one shot to continue my inning... I better make the ball. With this frame of mind, I use anything & everything I can, to insure the Pot.
Click to expand...

That may be the difference between a 'player' & a shot shooter.

Just to be clear the player is better than just a shot shooter.:wink:
 
JB Cases said:
Come to OKC and I will. But since we don't know who you are you could send in any good player with an english accent and claim to be you.
Click to expand...

Identities are easily verified these days, but i was talking about you posting on TSF.

We both know there's not a chance of you ever playing me in anything other than a ludicrous format contrived for your own benefit. Besides, you got Lou II to play, for one hundred large. When that business is concluded, circa 2045, give me a shout.

Anyway, still busy?
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi Colin.

The bridge hand can move or stay still. It's not the bridge hand hitting the ball. It's the tip. It's about increasing the lateral force vector relative to the forward force vector. When the cue leaves the bridge or the bridge goes laterally along with the cue that is what is accomplished.

It's not a shot one goes around shooting all of the time but instead only when one 'feels' that it's the best way to put the spin on the ball for that particular shot.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Rick,

I don't think it works in that way, such that there is a lateral force vector and a cue direction vector.

I think the best way to look at it is that on impact there is an effective tip direction. Such that, even if the lateral swipe is significant, the CB acts as if it were being struck by a straight shot at a different direction to the bridge position to CB contact point. Whether the bridge is moving or not.

But the main point is that the spin:speed ratio will be about the same as if one just stroked straight, hitting the same offset from a different bridge position that is effectively equivalent to the swiping direction at impact.

One could argue that the effective end mass of the cue is reduced for extreme swipes. This is feasible but I imagine quite marginal, as tests have concluded.

Cheers,
Colin (Been busy for a couple of days)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top