Burton Spain vs Bushka

[Org. Creole]

Me and my father were talkin last night about His Burton Spain cue. Well also in the conversation i brought up a pretty good question and thought i would post it here to ask all of you.
Why are Bushkas (or any other cuemaker who used Burton Spain Blanks) worth more then Burton Spains ?

 

[qbilder]

Bushkas were popularized by the "Color of Money". But they also are reputable on superb playability. Though Spain built very nice blanks, I have never heard anybody rave about how great his cues play & how much easier it is to pocket balls with his cues. People who hit with Bushkas feel like they can play better with them than they can other cues, and soon the word spreads & the value raises. As much as everybody loves innovative cuemakers, it's the cuemakers who are reputed for building great playing cues that command the high prices. Then you have to consider the "prestige" that comes along after a time of good reputation. Now on top of being known for great playability, they are also prestigeous relics, a sign of status. There are lots of reasons, but it all stems from the reputation of playability.

 

[ugotactionTX]

tap tap tap!

 

[Pushout]

Bushkas were popularized by the "Color of Money".

I find this a curious statement. Balabushkas were in demand among pool players before TCOM. Due to George's death in the early or mid '70s, prices were already climbing. Do you think that more people bought Bushkas after the movie? I know that due to the movie more casual players became aware of them but weren't collectible cues already becoming fashionable? And it would have to have been casual players with deep pockets to make that much difference, I would think.

 

[uwate]

Playability has to be it. Take Gus Szamboti for example...his cues hit remarkably well. I use to be into collecting cues (I've since sold nearly everything thank God considering the current state of affairs in cue market) but at one time around 2001 I had a 12x24 case stuffed with the who's who of cue making. My best friend was spending the weekend at my house and he doesn't know a thing about cues, but he plays pretty good. So that weekend I let him test drive every cue in my case without telling him anything about them. After the weekend was over I asked him which one he liked the best. He was apologetic in his reply saying, well Dave not to knock all these fancy cues (Bender/Southwest/Schick/Josswest/Searing etc etc) but I like this cheap simple cue the best (plain Gus thats my playing cue). That was a funny moment when the Gus passed the blind taste test at my house against ivory inlays and fancy scrimshaw.

 

[Danktrees]

Playability has to be it. Take Gus Szamboti for example...his cues hit remarkably well. I use to be into collecting cues (I've since sold nearly everything thank God considering the current state of affairs in cue market) but at one time around 2001 I had a 12x24 case stuffed with the who's who of cue making. My best friend was spending the weekend at my house and he doesn't know a thing about cues, but he plays pretty good. So that weekend I let him test drive every cue in my case without telling him anything about them. After the weekend was over I asked him which one he liked the best. He was apologetic in his reply saying, well Dave not to knock all these fancy cues (Bender/Southwest/Schick/Josswest/Searing etc etc) but I like this cheap simple cue the best (plain Gus thats my playing cue). That was a funny moment when the Gus passed the blind taste test at my house against ivory inlays and fancy scrimshaw.

well i dont find it surprising, with regards to the best hitting cue, no one ever said that ivory inlays or fancy scrimshaws made the cue play better. some people just prefer fancy cues while others dont.

 

[uwate]

I agree on that. Ivory doesnt do a thing for the hit when its in the butt. It sure looks pretty though Especially in the hands of someone like Dennis Searing

Funny thing when I sold all my cues. The ones that were the last to go were the ones that hit the best. I only regret selling the Searing and that happened only because I was mad at Dennis and everytime I saw the cue it reminded me of why I was mad at him.

 

[classiccues]

I find this a curious statement. Balabushkas were in demand among pool players before TCOM. Due to George's death in the early or mid '70s, prices were already climbing. Do you think that more people bought Bushkas after the movie? I know that due to the movie more casual players became aware of them but weren't collectible cues already becoming fashionable? And it would have to have been casual players with deep pockets to make that much difference, I would think.

You can talk about this till you're blue in the face. People just don't know this, at least anyone outside of the east coast. Tevis in the book used the name Balabushka, it wasn't just something the movie pegged. Balabushkas were known for their playability long before the movie. The industry as a whole got more en vogue after the movie. Cue collecting became an actual hobby and Balabushkas were not the only cue to flourish because of the movie. If he had said "Here is a Mali" you think that would have done ANYTHING? The other facet is look at Joss, everyone knows it was an ACTUAL Joss cue, WTF did it do for them?

JV

 

[hangemhigh]

You can talk about this till you're blue in the face. People just don't know this, at least anyone outside of the east coast. Tevis in the book used the name Balabushka, it wasn't just something the movie pegged. Balabushkas were known for their playability long before the movie. The industry as a whole got more en vogue after the movie. Cue collecting became an actual hobby and Balabushkas were not the only cue to flourish because of the movie. If he had said "Here is a Mali" you think that would have done ANYTHING? The other facet is look at Joss, everyone knows it was an ACTUAL Joss cue, WTF did it do for them?

JV

In Burton Spain's essay - Making Blanks - He clearly states that George Balabushka was way ahead of his time in the art of Cue making. He relates how only years later did the construction techniques George Balabushka used to turn his blanks into the finest Billiard instruments actually made sense to him. This was insight from a certified Genius.

TCOM only shed light on George Balabushka to the unwashed masses. No such movie touted Gus Szamboti, whose cues have eclipsed the value of George Balabushka's cues. This for one reason only, as both are simply the best, and always will be held in that proper regard.

 

[qbilder]

I find this a curious statement. Balabushkas were in demand among pool players before TCOM. Due to George's death in the early or mid '70s, prices were already climbing. Do you think that more people bought Bushkas after the movie? I know that due to the movie more casual players became aware of them but weren't collectible cues already becoming fashionable? And it would have to have been casual players with deep pockets to make that much difference, I would think.

You never read the rest of the post past the first line? I credit the playability factor above the movie. But come on, who can honestly say Balibushka was anything but a good cue before the movie? The movie gave it the lime light, and presented it as the cue all other cues should be judged. Soon after, cues became a collector item and the Balibushka was the one collection peice everybody wanted. Granted, the cues are great cues & obviously play well for most who have them. But they would be no more sought after than any other great cue if they had not been given god status by hollywood.

Much should be given to the names, too. Szamboti, Balibushka, both sound exotic & prestigeous. Martin sounds common like my next door neighbor, but Harvey Martin cues are no less quality than a Bushka or Szam. But only the "in the know" people spend the money for them & collect. In the collector world, they are also highly sought after. But to the average Joe in the pool hall or pub, a Balibushka is a popula cue & Szambotis & Martins are not even heard of. Only those who know anything about cues on a serious scale know them. But everybody knows the name, "Balibushka". The movie did more than is given credit. Even if the book mentioned it first, it was the movie that was seen by billions around the globe.

 

[classiccues]

You never read the rest of the post past the first line? I credit the playability factor above the movie. But come on, who can honestly say Balibushka was anything but a good cue before the movie? The movie gave it the lime light, and presented it as the cue all other cues should be judged. Soon after, cues became a collector item and the Balibushka was the one collection peice everybody wanted. Granted, the cues are great cues & obviously play well for most who have them. But they would be no more sought after than any other great cue if they had not been given god status by hollywood.

Much should be given to the names, too. Szamboti, Balibushka, both sound exotic & prestigeous. Martin sounds common like my next door neighbor, but Harvey Martin cues are no less quality than a Bushka or Szam. But only the "in the know" people spend the money for them & collect. In the collector world, they are also highly sought after. But to the average Joe in the pool hall or pub, a Balibushka is a popula cue & Szambotis & Martins are not even heard of. Only those who know anything about cues on a serious scale know them. But everybody knows the name, "Balibushka". The movie did more than is given credit. Even if the book mentioned it first, it was the movie that was seen by billions around the globe.

Eric,
I respectfully disagree. Balabushka's were used to win more tournaments between 64-75 than any other cue. Why? Why did all the great players have them? Where I am from, the cradle of the east coast cue builders, they were the most sought after BEFORE TCOM. There were guys who had 6-7 of them BEFORE the movie and before it was "in" to collect cues. In fact you would have been hard pressed to find a Martin or a Gina in a 1500 mile radius of NJ. Where as Balabushka was selling to all corners of the country.
The one thing you said I agree with is the movie called out the name to the masses. But the masses are not the collectors, nor are they the pool players. If Martin's, or Palmers, etc.. were the "quality" cue of their time, IMHO Tevis would have used them instead. I firmly believe Tevis knew the difference and I am sure he chose the name accordingly.
To say Szamboti's and Balabushka's should get credit because they sound exotic is ludicrous. These were the cues before the boom that everyone wanted, BEFORE the boom. Was that an accident? Was that because of their names? GMAB.. Kershenbrock sounds just as exotic and was making cues in 72, why ain't he in the movie? Paradise, you don't think that is as "exotic" a name.. Hey Kid.. here is my Paradise", could of been just as good. But the problem was those in the know, knew Bushkas work was better than Paradises, that includes Tevis.

JV

 

[hangemhigh]

You never read the rest of the post past the first line? I credit the playability factor above the movie. But come on, who can honestly say Balibushka was anything but a good cue before the movie? The movie gave it the lime light, and presented it as the cue all other cues should be judged. Soon after, cues became a collector item and the Balibushka was the one collection peice everybody wanted. Granted, the cues are great cues & obviously play well for most who have them. But they would be no more sought after than any other great cue if they had not been given god status by hollywood.

Much should be given to the names, too. Szamboti, Balibushka, both sound exotic & prestigeous. Martin sounds common like my next door neighbor, but Harvey Martin cues are no less quality than a Bushka or Szam. But only the "in the know" people spend the money for them & collect. In the collector world, they are also highly sought after. But to the average Joe in the pool hall or pub, a Balibushka is a popula cue & Szambotis & Martins are not even heard of. Only those who know anything about cues on a serious scale know them. But everybody knows the name, "Balibushka". The movie did more than is given credit. Even if the book mentioned it first, it was the movie that was seen by billions around the globe.

There was a reason why George Balabushka was mentioned prominently by Walter Tevis. TCOM was by no means a king maker. What made George Balabushka's reputation was one thing, He was the best. The people who collect his cues did so a long time before the movie was produced.

Harvey Martin was special also. He did things very inventively. He was focused on playability, not astetics. However, that, in my opinion, is one of the things that separate him from George Balabushka. He was able to make great players, but George Balabushka made great players that were also beautiful to behold.

The pure excellence of George Balabushka's work cemented his legacy, one that reached every corner of this sport. The fact His cue was highlighted in Walter Tevis' book only reinforced this point, and by no means created his well deserved stature.

 

[qbilder]

I never dicredited Balibushka. He obviously built good cues. But everywhere I go, which is a lot of places considering i'm military, there's people who know nothing about pool cues but know the name Balibushka. As for exotic names, yeah they sound exotic & just cool. Does that mean I credit them because of their names? No. I'm simply stating the obvious. Do they get credit because of their names? No. But people remember them & take notice when they wouldn't notice a more common name. I'm not trying to argue, or even debate. I don't really care. I just answered the original poster with my view of things. My original post explained my feelings. I don't need to justify it. It's the way I see it.

 

[hangemhigh]

People know the name because of what he did, made the best playing cue, period. You have put the cart before the horse. When people speak of his cues,it is because most,if not all of the past champions used his cues during his lifetime. That was most certianly not because of the ring to his name. He didn't make good cues, he made cues better than anyone,then and now.

 

[Pushout]

I never dicredited Balibushka. He obviously built good cues. But everywhere I go, which is a lot of places considering i'm military, there's people who know nothing about pool cues but know the name Balibushka. As for exotic names, yeah they sound exotic & just cool. Does that mean I credit them because of their names? No. I'm simply stating the obvious. Do they get credit because of their names? No. But people remember them & take notice when they wouldn't notice a more common name. I'm not trying to argue, or even debate. I don't really care. I just answered the original poster with my view of things. My original post explained my feelings. I don't need to justify it. It's the way I see it.

I guess that I and some others disagree with your view, then. I think there may be people who know the name Balabushka from the movie, but probably not much else about pool. I worked with a guy who swore up and down that TCOM cue was a real Balabushka. Even printed documentation to the contrary didn't convince him.

 

[pdcue]

I find this a curious statement. Balabushkas were in demand among pool players before TCOM. Due to George's death in the early or mid '70s, prices were already climbing. Do you think that more people bought Bushkas after the movie? I know that due to the movie more casual players became aware of them but weren't collectible cues already becoming fashionable? And it would have to have been casual players with deep pockets to make that much difference, I would think.

It was Japan...

Five full years after George's death, you could pick up a Bushka
and a Fellini case for $200 to $300 from a busted road player
most any time you were in the proverbial rights place/right time.
A Szam was about $175, give or take.

By the day before TCOM was released, the prices had not risen
by much more than general inflation.

A year after TCOM played in Japan - Bushkas were $3k and up
and Szams were $2k - $3k.

Dale