Business/Pool Advice.....

[Heckler]

Hello Guys,

I am in the process of setting up 2 new businesses this year....

1- A Billiard Hall in the Christina Lake area of BC, Canada

and

2- A Billiard Supplies company for the whole of North America

I was just wondering what you all think would make these type of businesses successful...and if you have any ideas that I can develop to make these unique???

Please fire away....

 

[Heckler]

Also

Also who you guys think would be the best/most popular pro player to hire for an exhibition at the billiard hall on the opening night????

 

[Zims Rack]

Also who you guys think would be the best/most popular pro player to hire for an exhibition at the billiard hall on the opening night????

Rodney Morris and Jennifer Barretta! Both superb players, very good attitudes and appearance and are climbing the ranks!

Zim

 

[GeraldG]

Hello,

Unless you are in a large population area for plenty of walk in customer traffic
I would say save your money on the Billiard Supply as the on line mail order billiard supply market is saturated.


"Gremlin"

Why do you say that? There are a bunch of them out there, for sure. I'm not sure that it is "saturated" though. When I'm looking for something online, the more options I have, the better. I think that the success of an online business will depend on:

1. How high up in the search engine list your site appears. That will be dependent on how many search engines your subscribed to (you can pay for listing services), how well you set up for keyword searches, how many other sites link to yours, etc. The average internet shopper will not look past the first page of the search results.

2. Price. If you offer a slightly better price online than other sites, you will do better. People shopping online tend to price-shop quite a bit.

3. Having a reputation for fast and accurate service and being friendly, helpful and responsive to your customers. People tend to talk quite a bit in some of these forums about different online dealers. If you are cognizant of that and conduct your business accordingly, you should do well.

4. Having a good selection of brands and products. Many online stores will carry only a few models from a particular manufacturer. They can probably order whatever you want from that manufacturer, but the reason people shop online is convenience and price. They want to find the specific item they are looking for, make one click and get all the details, pay a competitive price and make a click or two and finish the transaction. Sometimes convenience can override price a little. For instance, a couple of weeks ago, I was looking for a particular InStroke case. I found several onine dealers that carried InStroke and had great prices, but they didn't have the model I was looking for on their website. I blew past them and found one that did. They may have been able to order it for me, but I didn't want to mess with that.

5. Consider setting up an Ebay store.

6. Hire the best you possibly can to develop your website. This is not the place to try to cut corners. Your website needs to be easy to navigate, attractive and fast-loading and your developer needs to know how to make your site appear at the top of the list on keyword searches. The average web-shopper will wait about 15 seconds for a page to load...after that he (she) moves on to another site.

The online market is HUGE....the audience is enormous (the entire world population). I don't think it's anywhere near saturated.

 

[Heckler]

Cheers

Why do you say that? There are a bunch of them out there, for sure. I'm not sure that it is "saturated" though. When I'm looking for something online, the more options I have, the better. I think that the success of an online business will depend on:

1. How high up in the search engine list your site appears. That will be dependent on how many search engines your subscribed to (you can pay for listing services), how well you set up for keyword searches, how many other sites link to yours, etc. The average internet shopper will not look past the first page of the search results.

2. Price. If you offer a slightly better price online than other sites, you will do better. People shopping online tend to price-shop quite a bit.

3. Having a reputation for fast and accurate service and being friendly, helpful and responsive to your customers. People tend to talk quite a bit in some of these forums about different online dealers. If you are cognizant of that and conduct your business accordingly, you should do well.

4. Having a good selection of brands and products. Many online stores will carry only a few models from a particular manufacturer. They can probably order whatever you want from that manufacturer, but the reason people shop online is convenience and price. They want to find the specific item they are looking for, make one click and get all the details, pay a competitive price and make a click or two and finish the transaction. Sometimes convenience can override price a little. For instance, a couple of weeks ago, I was looking for a particular InStroke case. I found several onine dealers that carried InStroke and had great prices, but they didn't have the model I was looking for on their website. I blew past them and found one that did. They may have been able to order it for me, but I didn't want to mess with that.

5. Consider setting up an Ebay store.

6. Hire the best you possibly can to develop your website. This is not the place to try to cut corners. Your website needs to be easy to navigate, attractive and fast-loading and your developer needs to know how to make your site appear at the top of the list on keyword searches. The average web-shopper will wait about 15 seconds for a page to load...after that he (she) moves on to another site.

The online market is HUGE....the audience is enormous (the entire world population). I don't think it's anywhere near saturated.

Thanks Gerald,

I too am of the view that the on-line market may competitive but it is far from saturated...

I appreciate your replies and I will let you know when my site is ready to go live (Probably in 1-2months as I am putting alot of research into it) and you can give me your views.....

In the mean time anymore ideas or tips please feel free to let me know...

 

[Koop]

Your first years gross will not tell the story as posted above. Any new business takes at least 2 years to really take off and give you a good indication as to what you can expect. Try getting a business loan for a company that does not have a 5 year track record of profit. Not impossible but really tough.
If you do go through with it, best of luck, and remember that number one should always be customer service. Without them the future is always bleak.

Dave

 

[GeraldG]

Hello,

I disagree with you both. But good luck. Your first years gross will tell the story. I hope your smart enough to weigh the advise from anyone in a billiard sales dominated forum. I am speaking from a pure business stand point. I am not associated with anyone in the billiard trades. Independent reasearch I trust. Objectivity I hope guides you.

Cheers,

"Gremlin"

Can you provide reference to studies that provide numbers to support this? I'd be interested in seeing that. Just wondering what independent research you're basing that opinion on. Just from a pure numbers standpoint (numbers of internet-based billiards supply companies vs. pool-playing population of the U.S. alone), it doesn't seem to jive. But, I haven't seen any market-share studies of internet-based companies (specifically billiards-related), as compared to total target market. If you have valid, reliable information in the form of market statistics or previously developed business models from which you are drawing your opinion, it would definitely be of interest.

 

[DaveK]

Hello,

Unless you are in a large population area for plenty of walk in customer traffic
I would say save your money on the Billiard Supply as the on line mail order billiard supply market is saturated.

The poolroom is a poolroom so you might want to have a pretty staff or special menue, great chef, variety of entertainment, even type of tables. That would be your call. Mike Massey to open up the poolroom.

Good Luck,

"Gremlin"

Christina Lake has a population of about 1500 residents, and a lot of tourists/vacationers in the summer. Hopefully shipping to/from the area is up to the requirements of an on-line business, something to check maybe.

For a Canadian audience you may do better with Cliff Thorburn as a guest star to help open the room. He has a much better appeal for us Canadians, and puts on a great show (nothing against Mike Massey, only suggesting a more suitable drawing card considering the location).

Good luck in your ventures !

Dave

 

[GeraldG]

Your first years gross will not tell the story as posted above. Any new business takes at least 2 years to really take off and give you a good indication as to what you can expect. Try getting a business loan for a company that does not have a 5 year track record of profit. Not impossible but really tough.
If you do go through with it, best of luck, and remember that number one should always be customer service. Without them the future is always bleak.

Dave

This is really a key point. Customer Service is one of the most overlooked and ignored parts of doing business, and may very well be the single most important element. Poor customer service has driven many businesses out of business. On average, a satisfied customer will tell one or two other people about their experience with you. A dissatisfied customer, on the other hand, will tell an average of 14 other people about their experience with you. With an internet based company, that is more true than ever. People using the internet to shop also use forums such as this one to discuss their interests. One of the big topics is talking about internet based dealers they do business with...the internet is one helluva grapevine.

 

[TATE]

Hello Guys,

I am in the process of setting up 2 new businesses this year....

1- A Billiard Hall in the Christina Lake area of BC, Canada

and

2- A Billiard Supplies company for the whole of North America

I was just wondering what you all think would make these type of businesses successful...and if you have any ideas that I can develop to make these unique???

Please fire away....

For the pool room, selling alcohol and a setting where pool is a comfortable activity that invites guests to relax, watch or participate, and linger. I think selling alcohol is the real profit potential in a pool room.

For the billiards supply company - that question is too vague to comment on.

Chris

 

[Heckler]

Interesting

Hmmmm all interesting and many valid points....

Yes I am aware that Christina Lake has a limited population therefore the club itself will be fairly small 8 - 10 tables....however there will be a licensed bar although I think the playing area should be unlicensed to allow the young people in? Any thoughts on this are welcome...

I will be striving to develop a friendly and fun atmosphere, during the winter months I will host regular (Probably Monthly) tournaments with sensible prize funds...

From the Cue Sports supplies side, I will be promoting this through various leagues and with the backing of at least 1 well known cue maker (In discussions with another as we speak), I will be the North American branch for one of the most respected and well known snooker cue/table makers in the world. Are there any particular brands or products that you guys think I should stock?

 

[The Kiss]

I don't know pool rooms are a tough way to make a buck..If you have booze that a positive.. I tried to open a room 2 years ago had all the tables ready to go, solid business plan the whole nine..Thought I had a location they yanked that last minute..No one would lease space to a pool room in good locations anyway...Never got it together had to sell 15 GC at a loss..Long story short they banned smoking in MA 3 months later and it has killed pool almost completely...Some things work out for the best i started a diffent business and I am far happier.

Good Luck

 

[Zims Rack]

Almost forgot...The Ashton Twins! They are from Canada, correct? Eydie and Bob Romano or Alen Hopkins Jr would know how to contact them!

Best of luck in your adventures, I will be traveling down that path in the future as well.
Zim

 

[Billy_Bob]

So far as the billiard supply business goes, in many cases, the combination of computer expertise and a billiards sales business is rare. Many billiards sales web sites are lacking, that is for sure! You've got your people who are good at computers. You've got your people who are good at billiards. Rarely both.

1. Be the "Home Depot" of billiard sales. It is amazing what many local retail billiard sales businesses *don't* carry. To my knowledge, not one local billiard sales business in my area sells Moori tips. One company only sells one brand of tip! It is also amazing what the on-line billiard sales companies don't carry. A small sample of what they don't carry...

-All hardnesses of Moori tips
-Tiger break/jump tips.
-Other break/jump tips
-Phenolic tips

-"Quick Tip" dime and nickel shaping tools - Manufacturer - http://www.excel.net/~mniver

-Many cue manufacturers offer all sorts of options. Tip brand, tip hardness, shaft size, pro or euro taper, joint, wrap, rings, colors of wrap, length, and weight. But most on-line cue sales companies *only* offer a choice of weight.

This company is on the right track. Look at all the options they offer...
http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/viking/viking_f00_pool_cue.htm

In short, I need to go here to buy this, there to buy that. Sometimes only one web site carries a specific item.

2. Books/Videos. There are all sorts of new books/videos available on billiards. But no one carries them all! Go ahead and try to find these books/videos...
-Racking Secrets
-Pool Table Sales and Service
-The secret of aiming
-Aiming on the Cutting Edge
-Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards
-Bet High and Kiss Low
-The Green Book - Pool Table Maintenance Manual
-Buddy Hall's Clock System video
-Grady Mathews' Secrets of Money Pool video
-Kid Delicious Gambling Secrets
etc.

I've got to go to many different web sites if I want to purchase the above books/videos. It would be nice if one web site carried everything!

3. Used and out of print books. There are all sorts of used and out of print books on billiards circulating around, sold on ebay and at rare book stores. How about a billiard supply company which also purchases used, rare, and out of print billiard books and offers them for sale - one stop shopping! The following regular book store business buys and sells used books ,and also sells new books - they do a BIG business in this area...
http://www.powells.com
Their book buying page...
http://www.powells.com/info/buying.html

4. Customer service tracking number. For a person skilled at computers and web sites, it is easy to let a customer know when their order was shipped and give them a tracking number. Then they can be home when UPS delivers the package or arrange for someone else to be there. Yet many billiards web sites don't tell you when they have shipped nor do they give you a tracking number. The best ones let you know when it was shipped. If something is on back order, they tell you when to expect it approximately, then tell you it was shipped and give you a tracking number in an email which you can click on and go right to UPS/FedEx/USPS. The good sites also can calculate on-line, the shipping cost and will offer several different choices and prices.

5. Charge card names. Many sites will ask for your first and last name, then the charge card does not go through because they did not ask for the middle initial. The better sites ask for shipping info, then ask for the exact name as it appears on the charge card when you get to that point.

6. Charge card expiration date. On my charge card it is in the format 02-09, yet some web sites just offer a selection of Jan, Feb, Mar, etc. The better sites offer as a selection: Jan (01), Feb(02), Mar(03).

I don't think the people who design some of these web sites ever try to use them. Following is an excellent web site as an example...
http://www.scalesgalore.com

Note: An excellent web hosting company is http://www.pair.com Fast, has own forum for technical questions (a lot of web site techies hang out here), Ecommerce friendly, can even have your own dedicated server(s) which they maintain, etc.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Also a good computer person will tie in your inventory system to the web site. Items out of stock say so. Items no longer carried instantly disappear from the web site. New items appear on the web site.

And any employee can easily add/delete items from inventory.

It is all in the design of your system...

 

[Heckler]

The Ashton Twins

Almost forgot...The Ashton Twins! They are from Canada, correct? Eydie and Bob Romano or Alen Hopkins Jr would know how to contact them!

Best of luck in your adventures, I will be traveling down that path in the future as well.
Zim

I think I played one of the twins in a local comp calgary in Nov, is one of them called Bev?

I take it they are pretty well known and experianced?

 

[DaveK]

...Christina Lake has a limited population therefore the club itself will be fairly small 8 - 10 tables....however there will be a licensed bar although I think the playing area should be unlicensed to allow the young people in? Any thoughts on this are welcome...

I will be striving to develop a friendly and fun atmosphere, during the winter months I will host regular (Probably Monthly) tournaments with sensible prize funds...

Assuming that Christina Lake is primarily a resort town, you should target the vacation crowd perhaps. They will be a broad mix of people, with likely only a few serious pool players. One idea might be to run a few tables every evening for 'golf' tournaments. The golf I refer to is the game where players take turns running out each of 18 'holes', which are all variations of the venerable '3 ball' gambling game. The neat thing about this game is that the best players will spend the least time at the table, while a beginner will take a lot more strokes to complete a hole (set a maximum stroke count) and therefore be at the table longer. Everyone who participates gets a regular trip to the table regardless of who's winning or loosing. In general it is an ideal game for many players of different skill levels. You could also charge by the 'round' which might drive up the table revenue (assuming you have 4 or 6 people playing a round of 'golf' at one table, for example). If it gets popular you can keep track of peoples scores and then handicap the games for tournaments. You can also offer prizes for things like a 'hole in one' (make all balls off the break, it happens very occasionally). Again, this idea is targeted at the casual player or non-player on vacation, not the regular players like many of us on this board, however they will also be attracted to the game.

Another idea might be to have a couple of outdoor tables on a deck. The interior of BC has a good climate in the summer for a deck. How else can you catch a few rays and pot a few balls at the same time ?

Just a few ideas ...

Dave .... OK, lunch is over, back to work

 

[Shorty]

Also a good computer person will tie in your inventory system to the web site. Items out of stock say so. Items no longer carried instantly disappear from the web site. New items appear on the web site.

And any employee can easily add/delete items from inventory.

It is all in the design of your system...

You know, I been thinking along these same lines...but here is the problem as I see it. Too many middle men.

I am a computer guru of sorts, having done alot of web pages and know a good bit about web hosting and computers in general. I been an internet addict since the fall of 1990. It would be a neat idea to put together my knowledge of pool and my computer skills to make such an ideal site. The problem I see is that everyone is trying to take a cut from the pool industry. It is hard to track down the true supplier of all of these products without paying everyone's 20 percent markup...some markup's are even more. You would almost need a direct supply line so to speak, along with a good computer guru such as myself to make it all "work". Almost a working database of suppliers along with that database of inventory.

Also have to spend some time and money seperating the crap from the quality goods. A lot of the pool items out there are not of good quality, or are overkill for the average pool player. I mean is an APA weekly shooter going to want to spend 1000 bucks on a cue? No, not unless he has a couple of screws loose like I do.

So what are you looking for? Quality vs. quantity? Do you want to sell alot, make alot of little profits...or sell only a little, but have a higher percentage of profit.

I personally would prefer to sell very few items, but mainly focus on quality and then let the quantity take care of itself...but what do I know...heck...I am just a midget with a short stroke...(grin).

Shorty

 

[Blackjack]

Great post, Shorty

I believe that you will get out of it what you put into it. If you are dedicated to quality service, you will ultimately hit a cross roads where you will have to choose which of these projects is worth more of your time and energy. I was doing the same thing trying to be a Police Officer, a Professional Player and a Billiard Hall owner. I found that if I found something that I can concentrate and direct all of my energy towards, then I would be successful in that area of my life. Until I figured that out, each project zapped energy from the other, and I was just tired all of the time with little or nothing to show for it. My advice would be to pick one and generate all fo your energy in that direction. Does the world really need another billiard equipment supplier? Probably not, but who knows, you might be able to get the reputation for being the best one out there. Who knows until you try?

As far as the pool hall opening, I would also recomend the Ashton Twins. If you are going for entertainment value, A good exhibition/trick shot artist is Tom Rossman. He has a great show, and a good rapport with the audience. Also, send me a PM with your web site info and I will put a link to it on my web site. Link swapping is another great way to generate web traffic.

 

[Billy_Bob]

...So what are you looking for? Quality vs. quantity? Do you want to sell alot, make alot of little profits...or sell only a little, but have a higher percentage of profit....

Well I think just another web site which carries only some items would not do well, however something new and unique like a "Home Depot" concept would do well. FYI if you are not familiar with Home Depot, it is an incredibly large hardware/gardening/appliance/home improvement store. Basically if you need it, it is there. One stop shopping.

And this has been the trend with many retail stores. The "super store" with one stop shopping.

I think the best idea would be to carry everything and perhaps provide feedback from customers about various products, especially negative feedback. But still carry the product even though it is crap. For example cheap plastic ball racks. Some of these will rack differently depending on which corner you use. But some bar owners are cheap and could care less about quality. This is what they want to buy. They are not going to spend $40 on a quality rack.

Or there could be some type of star placed next to a product indicating that it was a known quality product.

And Super Aramith Pro balls are the best and will actually be less expensive in the long run since they will last so long. But some people will only buy the least expensive set of ball available.

I think the most important thing to do, would be to gain a reputation for being willing to sell any and all billiard products. A lot of people write their own books or manufacture their own billiard products. It seems to me that the big sellers are unwilling to carry many of these books/products. And therefore a lot of players do not know that these products exist. Some specific obscure books/products I have purchased and are only available from one web site have helped my game more than anything else.

So far as expensive cues. Some people do want to buy them. You don't have to have each and every item in stock. But you should let people know that these things are available. Here is a good example. A Schuler masse' cue. I went to a local Schuler dealer and they didn't even know what a masse' cue was! http://schulercue.com/products/accessories.htm

Let people know these products are available....