"But It Wont Affect Playability" Help, Dr. Dave/Bob Jewett...

[Kickin' Chicken]

I've been spending a fair amount of time lately over on the Wanted/For Sale forum and I see a few frequently recurring catch phrases that strike me funny.

Examples include the much overused "hits a ton" and "monster cue", plus responses along the lines of 'If I didn't have to pay child support, alimony, and fix the danged transmission that just went on my truck, I'd be all over that cue like stink on a monkey'... :grin-square:

With this next one, I am seeking the opinions of those who know physics, or even a little basic math, better than I do.

When I read that a shaft has a wobble but "it won't affect play", it causes me to wonder, is that really true? I mean, doesn't having a shaft with a bend, even a minor one, cause a difference of some kind when striking a cue ball?

Maybe it's just that it's so small of a difference that us average guys would never pick up on it. But there is a difference, right?

I would really like to know once and for all, definitively, does a shaft that is not straight affect playability?

What do you guys think?

And maybe those who possess higher knowledge of how such things work can chime in on this with their opinions. :thumbup:

Best,
Brian kc

 

[BHQ]

it only effects you if you let it
mental thing

i play with a warped predator
i shoot just as bad with it as i did back when it was straight :thumbup:

 

[BHQ]

another thought

you have any idea how many people dont even know there shaft is warped?
a bunch
guys come over to have me put a tip on,
when they see thier shaft wobbling, they seem surprised, some shocked in fact
until they saw the wooble, it wasnt a problem for them
im sure after that, it's in thier head

 

[MVPCues]

Practically every shaft put in a lathe and checked for run out shows some movement. Period. The question then becomes how much is too much? What is the threshold where shaft warpage crosses over and affects the playability? That is probably an impossible thing to definitively answer.

Obviously a warped shaft isn't desirable, and clearly extremes shouldn't be tolerated. But, it is entirely possible some very minor movement can't be detected during or as a result of play, IMO.

Kelly

 

[PaulieB]

In my opinion, as a non cue maker, non instructor, etc ... Lots of shafts have a bit of a "wobble" to them

There is a big difference between a taper roll and a warped shaft. Rolling a shaft on a rail and not seeing the tip flop around means to me (with my limited knowledge) that it's acceptable. If you roll that same shaft on a table, you might see a bit of light under the middle of it when you roll it, but if the tip isn't flopping all over the place and it doesn't look like a banana, you should be good to go. Having a slight bit of light show up when rolling just the shaft on a table, in the middle area of the shaft, without the tip lifting from the table ... well I call that a roll not a warp, and it still works for me.

Putting the same shaft on a lathe will tell you even more about what is really going on with the shaft. I had a shaft that had a minor taper roll but the tip never left the table ... you put it on a lathe and it spins true as heck ... I still call that straight, imo.

 

[thefonz]

what warp

reminds me of a phillipino cue that i had which i played lights out with. i didn't notice that there was a warp until someone pointed it out........ didn't play the same with that cue after that:angry:

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

There has to be some way to quantify this. But I'm not the man for the job.

I knew I should have paid better attention to Ms. Finlaysen.

Perhaps an eighth of an inch wobble wouldn't matter on a 9 foot table but don't dare use that cue on a 40 footer.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[BHQ]

There has to be some way to quantify this. But I'm not the man for the job.

I knew I should have paid better attention to Ms. Finlaysen.

Perhaps an eighth of an inch wobble wouldn't matter on a 9 foot table but don't dare use that cue on a 40 footer.

Best,
Brian kc

if that 1/8th inch is from your bridge to the tip, youre in big trouble :yikes:

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Kickin', you're asking the wrong people. Ask a professional pool player if they play with a cue shaft that is 'wobbly', as you say. My guess is they'll look at you like you're a crazy person, which we all know you're not, of course.
My own opinion is that if a shaft, or a butt for that matter, has moved from it's intended centerline (warped) then a shot can be effected to a greater, or lesser degree, depending on the amount of that movement (warp).

 

[javi2]

Good question Chicken, the shaft is made from wood. That being said, is there really any that are perfectly straight? I'd say no. When does it affect play? I think it's going to get deep here.............

 

[336Robin]

The Warped Move

it only effects you if you let it
mental thing

i play with a warped predator
i shoot just as bad with it as i did back when it was straight :thumbup:

BHQ,
Its been a long time since I was a kid learning to play but your post took me back to the very first money games I ever played on barboxes as kids. I would stand around looking dumb which came natural and someone would eventually ask me to play for a dollar which back then would buy 3 packs of cigarettes "today around $5 a piece" and I would say sure. I would then go to the rack and already have a laid out the warpest stick in the rack that no one would use.

When I went to jam the quarter in the machine I would have the cue on the table and as I did so would roll the cue with my left hand and its obvious warp would flop,flop,flop across the felt. My challenger would almost be giddy at the prospects of my money and I shot terrible the first few racks but luckily won each time. Later as it became apparent that the mouse had caught the cat and things got a bit more serious I would just turn the warp so it was straight up and down and wear em out.

On a few occasions it got real nasty and I would go to the rack and get something straight, on a few of those occasions I would just go to the restroom and never come back!!!!

Thats my physics lesson for the day!!

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

 

[Tramp Steamer]

BHQ,
Its been a long time since I was a kid learning to play but your post took me back to the very first money games I ever played on barboxes as kids. I would stand around looking dumb which came natural and someone would eventually ask me to play for a dollar which back then would buy 3 packs of cigarettes "today around $5 a piece" and I would say sure. I would then go to the rack and already have a laid out the warpest stick in the rack that no one would use.

When I went to jam the quarter in the machine I would have the cue on the table and as I did so would roll the cue with my left hand and its obvious warp would flop,flop,flop across the felt. My challenger would almost be giddy at the prospects of my money and I shot terrible the first few racks but luckily won each time. Later as it became apparent that the mouse had caught the cat and things got a bit more serious I would just turn the warp so it was straight up and down and wear em out.

On a few occasions it got real nasty and I would go to the rack and get something straight, on a few of those occasions I would just go to the restroom and never come back!!!!

Thats my physics lesson for the day!!

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

So in a round-about way, 336, you're saying that if you didn't hold the cue in the same position for each stroke, your play would have been effected by the warp in the cue. Correct?

 

[BHQ]

BHQ,
When I went to jam the quarter in the machine I would have the cue on the table and as I did so would roll the cue with my left hand and its obvious warp would flop,flop,flop across the felt. My challenger would almost be giddy at the prospects of my money and I shot terrible the first few racks but luckily won each time. Later as it became apparent that the mouse had caught the cat and things got a bit more serious I would just turn the warp so it was straight up and down and wear em out.

you tipped off your age when you said a "quarter"
now it's FOUR quarters
please call me brent

 

[pt109]

Kickin', you're asking the wrong people. Ask a professional pool player if they play with a cue shaft that is 'wobbly', as you say. My guess is they'll look at you like you're a crazy person, which we all know you're not, of course.
My own opinion is that if a shaft, or a butt for that matter, has moved from it's intended centerline (warped) then a shot can be effected to a greater, or lesser degree, depending on the amount of that movement (warp).

Hard to believe.....Tramp Steamer gave a straight answer...

I refuse to buy or play with a crooked cue..the game is tough enough.
A pool ball has to be within 5/1,000 off round to be world legal.
I'll settle for the same tolerance in the straightness of a cue.

A crooked cue doesn't always affect accuracy..but it will affect power
and deflection of the cue ball with side-spin.
If a player aims with his tip...he can shoot straight with a crooked cue.

Aiming with the tip may explain how John Spenser won 2 World snooker
titles with a cue that I wouldn't use for a bridge handle.....
..he won his third title with a straight cue.

 

[tpdtom]

I know an A- player that shoots with a badly warped cue in my estimation. He turns it to the right place and plays great with it. My only question is would a straight cue make him an A ?

 

[HarleyKR07]

I rarely have seen a predator shaft brand new or not come in perfectly straight. Usually the posts like "won't effect play" come with these all the time. Maybe on the sticker on the new shaft they should put that slogan on it!

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I know an A- player that shoots with a badly warped cue in my estimation. He turns it to the right place and plays great with it. My only question is would a straight cue make him an A ?

No, tp. It would simply mean he would no longer have to worry about which way he held it.

 

[crappoolguy]

Hard to believe.....Tramp Steamer gave a straight answer...

I refuse to buy or play with a crooked cue..the game is tough enough.
A pool ball has to be within 5/1,000 off round to be world legal.
I'll settle for the same tolerance in the straightness of a cue.

A crooked cue doesn't always affect accuracy..but it will affect power
and deflection of the cue ball with side-spin.
If a player aims with his tip...he can shoot straight with a crooked cue.

Aiming with the tip may explain how John Spenser won 2 World snooker
titles with a cue that I wouldn't use for a bridge handle.....
..he won his third title with a straight cue.

Snooker players hold the cue the same way round for every shot, and most of them play with just one cue throughout the course of their career. This means that if there is a slight bend they are so used to it that their brain subconsciously allows for it. Stephen Hendry would be a good example of this, he won the majority of his titles playing with a cheap bent cue that he had used since his childhood, then when the cue got damaged beyond repair at an airport he was never quite the same player.

 

[desmocourtney]

The most warped cue on the wall usually has the best tip!

Great post, thanks.

In my opinion, simply rolling a cue on a table, especially with Simonis cloth and some light on the other side, will reveal to a sharp eye, slight warpage that will have no effect on play, unless its in your mind. The biggest benefit to a perfectly straight cue is resale value, not playability.

How to quantify acceptable "taper roll" is an interesting question.

BHQ,
Its been a long time since I was a kid learning to play but your post took me back to the very first money games I ever played on barboxes as kids. I would stand around looking dumb which came natural and someone would eventually ask me to play for a dollar which back then would buy 3 packs of cigarettes "today around $5 a piece" and I would say sure. I would then go to the rack and already have a laid out the warpest stick in the rack that no one would use.

When I went to jam the quarter in the machine I would have the cue on the table and as I did so would roll the cue with my left hand and its obvious warp would flop,flop,flop across the felt. My challenger would almost be giddy at the prospects of my money and I shot terrible the first few racks but luckily won each time. Later as it became apparent that the mouse had caught the cat and things got a bit more serious I would just turn the warp so it was straight up and down and wear em out.

On a few occasions it got real nasty and I would go to the rack and get something straight, on a few of those occasions I would just go to the restroom and never come back!!!!

Thats my physics lesson for the day!!

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

 

[336Robin]

Reply to Tramp Steamer

So in a round-about way, 336, you're saying that if you didn't hold the cue in the same position for each stroke, your play would have been effected by the warp in the cue. Correct?

Tramp Steamer,
Oh yeah if its a warp especially and not a roll. I wouldnt worry with a roll whatsoever Id just play normal but depending on shafts and where the wood grain opens up if youre a little picky you might notice that the cue deflects more on way than the other to the side on hard strokes then you might could argue that you might need to hold a straight cue a certain way with the open grain up or down.

Me, Im just not that good, but its good to dream.

336Robin :thumbup: http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com