This is the fallacy. Favoring an off center hit does not increase the margin of stroke error. The effect of a stroke error is just as great, in the same directions, whether you’re trying to hit center ball or with side.
pj
chgo
C. J. Wiley - A Touch of Inside
- Thread starter SpiderWebComm
- Start date
pj
chgo
I get the impression that a "touch" is somewhat of a misnomer. He does allude to greater amounts of offset away from center. Fact is, if you get on the table and try it for yourself, you'll see that it requires varying amounts.
Go to the 8:52 mark in the video where he's cutting a ball into the side pocket. He mentions using a "couple of TIPS" of inside to perform the shot. He says it elsewhere also but I can't find and pinpoint it now.
With the amount of time I put into experimenting with it (not close to enough), BHE and TOI aren't the same. BHE creates an angled cue while TOI is done with a parallel cue.
You certainly wouldn't be alone.
And there's a whole helluva lot of that going on in this forum and has been for decades!! I would say it IS IN FACT the primary reason for dissent and flame wars! Great insight!
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I have no skin in this game either direction. But I don’t understand this comment. I thought that was the difference between back hand English and parrallel , one is at an angle and the other is not? How can something parallel to a shot line be angled across it?
Why though? If you favor one side with negligible english, you lessen the chance of hitting the other side which can result in the wrong contact.
Oikawa
Well-known member
What do you mean with wrong contact?
Wrong swerve, hence wrong OB contact.
Seems like you want to argue. I'm going to pass.
Oikawa
Well-known member
But, even if you try to aim with side, and accidentally put a bit too much or too little, there will be just as much error in the OB hit. There isn't, conceptually, a magical tip-off point where crossing the middle point of the CB horizontally suddenly makes the result vastly different. For any given aim point, a horizontal tip error of a certain size will result in a similar amount of error in the shot result, no matter the intended horizontal point of contact.
Only if you did, which seemed like it to me since you sought me out and not the other way around. Good call. Enjoy the day.
You should be asking how a cue parallel to the shot line can make the shot. It can't unless swerve exactly cancels squirt - which in the vast majority of cases (including TOI) doesn't happen.
"Parallel english" isn't a real thing.
pj
chgo
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It's already been said a few times here by me and others, but here's a little more detail in the thinking...
If you're trying to hit center ball and accidentally hit slightly to the right of center, the CB will squirt left of where you want it to go. And if you're trying to hit left of center and accidentally hit to the right of the intended contact point, the CB will also go left of where you want it to - by the same amount.
In other words, no matter where you try to hit the CB (center or off center) a stroke error will result in the same amount and direction of CB error. The idea that favoring off center hits "reduces errors" is simply false.
The fact that CJ sells it that way is just another example of skill not being the same as knowledge (and pros not necessarily knowing how they do what they do so well). Kudos for CJ's game - not so much for his teaching.
pj
chgo
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I'm not going to play the video again because I've already done it multiple times at certain parts. What I don't remember, or I glossed over it, was what you just posted. Can you pinpoint the time within the video where he states it?
You don't remember CJ saying that TOI reduces the margin of stroke error? It was his main selling point.
I can't find any of his posts now - were they deleted? What was his AZB name?
pj
chgo
No, I don't remember. OTOH, I can't say that I followed very many of his posts over the years to begin with. This just caught my eye on YouTube and was the first time I ever got on the table and tried it. He certainly played a wicked game of pool.
????
I'm not saying I use CJ's TOI in fact I don't. I do use inside to cinch shots. Inside english allows stroking AT the contact point. There's stroke speed involved as well and that is integrated with BHE sense. Inside isn't as touchy for me as outside but neither presents any roadblocks. Also plus or minus a few RsPM isn't going to matter when you're just cinching the shot. The effect of the error is diminished and unless you hit too hard or too soft, negligible.
I found his posts... username CJ Wiley. CJ {space} Wiley
PJ I think what CJ was saying if you aim at the fartherest makeable point of the pocket and you make sure you cue a touch to inside as long as you hit "inside" you have more of the pocket to make the ball. If that makes sense. I have palyed around iwth it from time to time and it does work but what I can't do is take it from my home table with clean balls and slick cloth and then go to pool hall with dirty balls and dirty cloth as the squirt is totally different.
Favoring one side and mistroking to the opposite side Is a bigger error than you'd get aiming dead center. Hence favoring one side.