C J Wylie controversy and TOI

[ENGLISH!]

yeah long space between CB and OB usually overcut but I think it is that I am so used to backhand style english I just line up a bit wrong but man can put the cue ball seemingly anywhere after a shot. I am playing on a Diamond Pro 9ft with fairly tight pockets so I just got to get the deflection dialed in. Oh and one other thing is u have to commit to it and stroke it.

sig,

I'm playing on 9' Centenials with shims (we just got 2 Diamonds) & on the long ones I am actually 'aiming' for a point mis. The extra time & distance allows for the CB to squirt a farther distance. On long very thin ones I am even 'aiming' for them to hit the the rail.

As to committing to it & stroking it 'firmly', I fully understand & that is partly from where my positioning problems arise. If I hit it with what I 'feel' is correct speed, I 'float' short & when I try to firm up the hit so I don't 'float' up short, I 'float' long. I am not leaving myself 'unmakable' shots, unless I snooker myself, but I am left with either much more cut or more distance than I am accustomed to leaving myself & the whole plan as to be re-worked too often.

I have an astigmatism in my shooting eye so I like shots to be as easy as possible. The TOI has help very much on the more difficult ones. Actually turning them into non-difficult shots. So...for now there is a bit of a trade off. I'm sure my positioning with it will get better with time.

As I said before, right now I'm trying to dance one dance with two(2) seperate dance partners. Do you know how a woman gets when she has to sit out a dance?:wink:

Regards to you &

 

[cool_hand_ljb]

toi is awsome

Toi has been a lot of fun to get to know. I have a 10 foot Brunswick with 3 7/8 pockets and I am drilling my shots (not all yet but getting there). TOI is the real deal.
Sig what I have found is that on the long shots that are fairly straight I make a small adjustment. I clued in to this the second time I wached the ppv. Also accelerating through the shot makes a big difference.
I have asked CJ questions and he has been a great guy to deal with. Ty for that. Hope this helps Sig.

 

[CJ Wiley]

on long shots the distance changes the normal "edge alignment" to "center alignment"

English I am havring the opposite shape is easy but still missing some table length shots. I am amazed at how easy shapes are just by changing the vertical location of tip to change the angle off the OB. I still have trouble overcutting the long ones though still not calibrated in the brain yet I guess.

Without seeing you play I would guess you're coming off the edge on the long shots because they're over a "half ball it". Try coming off center instead, on long shots the distance changes the normal "edge alignment" to "center alignment" on the object ball. Try this, I think you'll do well and if you undercut slightly go over slightly more on your TOI.

 

[CJ Wiley]

on long shots the distance changes the normal "edge alignment" to "center alignment"

English I am havring the opposite shape is easy but still missing some table length shots. I am amazed at how easy shapes are just by changing the vertical location of tip to change the angle off the OB. I still have trouble overcutting the long ones though still not calibrated in the brain yet I guess.

Without seeing you play I would guess you're coming off the edge on the long shots because they're over a "half ball hit". Try coming off center instead, on long shots the distance changes the normal "edge alignment" to "center alignment" on the object ball. Try this, I think you'll do well and if you undercut slightly go over slightly more on your TOI.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Pivot for spin, and parallel for deflection is the "rule of thumb".

Without seeing you play I would guess you're coming off the edge on the long shots because they're over a "half ball it". Try coming off center instead, on long shots the distance changes the normal "edge alignment" to "center alignment" on the object ball. Try this, I think you'll do well and if you undercut slightly go over slightly more on your TOI.

Hi CJ,

That highlighted statement sounds a bit like a rotation around to TOI & not a parallel shift.

You have stated several times to shoot the shots as though they are straight in. Can you elborate on what you mean by that? I'm just trying to get more of your insight.

If PJ was still around this would have popped up days ago.:wink:

I'm pocket balls fine, my combo play has improved, I'm still have trouble fine tuning position.

I can't put in the 3 weeks straight til my individual in house money league is over, but when it is, I will.

I'm a firm believer in TOI & I will be a 'total' believer when I get postion with it under control.

Best Regards to You &

The reference of shooting all the shots like they're straight in is about alignment. I show in the TOI video how to align to every shot the same and this gives you a consistent point of reference. The movement you have to make to create different angles using TOI is no more than a half tip in most cases.

If you want to know exactly how to calibrate these angles just set up the object ball on the head spot and the cue ball on the foot spot. Go over slightly and hit the cue ball....see how much the object ball "cuts," just make sure you move the cue over without any "pivoting" - move it over parallel is another way of saying it. Pivot for spin, and parallel for deflection is the "rule of thumb".

 

[Snapshot9]

Benefit

I don't know C.J., and haven't got his TOI DVD yet, but I learned a long time ago the benefits of using inside english. The cut to the corner and using inside english to go 3 rails for shape is a classic shot I like. I also learned the benefit of using inside english for banking, and especially backcut banks. I probably use inside english on 80-85% of my banks, and I usually make them, even extreme backcuts to a side pocket. I have played Pool for over 50 years.

I would like to give kudos to CJ, for giving a learning tool for inside english, one of the most ignored areas by normal Pool players, but which can yield many benefits. Learning to use inside english good can step your game up a notch!

 

[henho]

CJ, from what I understand of your system, the key is staying near the center, maximizing the "mass" of the cueball, and getting angles without using spin. The feel that you are going after in the game is that of "heavy" contact between the cueball and object ball that comes with minimal use of spin, allowing you to drag the cueball around the table. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

However, there seems to be a complementary style of play that emphasizes hitting the cueball off of the center line and getting a "thin" contact between the cueball and the object ball. The disadvantage to this style is that the pocket doesn't play as big when hitting the balls with speed. However the advantage is that the cueball travels more after contact, allowing you to hit every shot very soft and still get to where you need to be on the table.

When I watch pro players play, there seem to be "thunkers" like you and perhaps Mika Immonen that love hitting center ball firm shots and dragging the ball around the table. But there are also many filipino players I've watched that prefer a soft stroke on almost every shot and let the cueball spin and roll into the next position softly.

I feel like I've described these things somewhat esoterically so I hope they are understandable, but are you familiar with this complementary, "thin" hit style? Thoughts?

 

[CJ Wiley]

At the highest levels you won't see much finesse styles in the gambling games

CJ, from what I understand of your system, the key is staying near the center, maximizing the "mass" of the cueball, and getting angles without using spin. The feel that you are going after in the game is that of "heavy" contact between the cueball and object ball that comes with minimal use of spin, allowing you to drag the cueball around the table. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

However, there seems to be a complementary style of play that emphasizes hitting the cueball off of the center line and getting a "thin" contact between the cueball and the object ball. The disadvantage to this style is that the pocket doesn't play as big when hitting the balls with speed. However the advantage is that the cueball travels more after contact, allowing you to hit every shot very soft and still get to where you need to be on the table.

When I watch pro players play, there seem to be "thunkers" like you and perhaps Mika Immonen that love hitting center ball firm shots and dragging the ball around the table. But there are also many filipino players I've watched that prefer a soft stroke on almost every shot and let the cueball spin and roll into the next position softly.

I feel like I've described these things somewhat esoterically so I hope they are understandable, but are you familiar with this complementary, "thin" hit style? Thoughts?

That's an accurate generalization, without getting into too much detail. I do think it may be a bit deceiving when you watch some of these Filipino players play, and the equipment is playing a noticeable part in this.

Right now they're using very fast cloth which makes the pockets play much easier to soft speeds. It's also very easy to move around the table which also encourages softer hits and decreases the need for much power. The greatest players would rather play on worn cloth that has a slower speed. In tournaments you have to play on new conditions, but this isn't normal in the pool rooms we play in. The great tournament players simply adapt.

As a matter of fact we all dislike it when the cloth is changed and sometimes it's years before they change the cloth on the big "action tables" in various pool rooms around the country. It's in these pool rooms, under these conditions that you will see the best pool being played. These tables also break tougher and rack the same for both players.

Tournament conditions are simply NOT a true representation of pocket billiards in it's truest form. My style is very effective in this type environment (pool rooms), and you will also see the Filipino players change their style as well. They will certainly hit the cue ball firmer on every shot.

I've gambled with Bustemante on several occasions and it was a gun fight with both of us playing a super strong and aggressive style. Maybe someone saw us play in Chicago, or LA, and can comment on what they saw. At the highest levels you won't see many finesse styles {hold up} in the gambling games, and in tournaments you're seeing a watered down version of the player's strongest game.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I am striking the cue ball as well as ultra aware of my shot speed.

I think CJ talked about this in the video.. He said something about you are going to have to calibrate this to fit yourself. Every cue, how hard you hit it etc. is going to make the results vary per player.

It has caused me to be very deliberate and consistent on where I am striking the cue ball as well as ultra aware of my shot speed. This alone has helped me immensely.

Yes, the game of pool is made up of MANY individual shots, and those shots have 3 routine calculations, {which include}shot speed, shot angle and cue ball "tip target".

The main reason using the TOI has "helped you immensely" is it's combining all three of these calculations into one system of play. With this method of playing you are hitting the cue ball a consistent speed, you are using your TOI to create the intended shot angle, and you're always using the Inside of the cue ball as the target. This frees you up to play the game, instead of trying to figure out what speed, spin and angle you need every time.

This is why the Game starts to open up and become fun again, without all the effort of trying to make 3 separate calculations every shot. Mastering this one TOI shot is something attainable for any intermediate player in just a matter of weeks. The Game is just as easy as you can make it when you break it down into the basics with the "Touch" of Inside. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com

Here's What Joey Says About His TOI Experience:

CJ I'm a long time pool player and I recently purchased the TOI video. The biggest thing I've taken from a single viewing is my awareness of exact cueing. I used to give little attention to how much English I'd apply to the CB and as you might expect I've never reached a super high level of consistent play.

Just two days into using TOI my game is literally changing more drastically than I could have imagined. I'm much more deliberate in my cueing and am using inside with confidence for the first time in my life.

In the past the deflection always scared me but I'm learning that as long as I pay attention to exactly where I strike the cue ball that I can predict how much the cue ball will deflect each time.

I'm a huge banks player and am already seeing a huge difference in my consistency there as well. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It's been more valuable than any of the lessons that I've taken over the years. Best regards, Joey